Richmond 20mph

[Hoofy]

So what can be done to overturn the decision?

[2gins]

Well, it has to go through the council's scrutiny committee which meets later this month, although it is scheduled for March 25 I think. I'll be putting in a submission for that meeting but probably won't speak at it. However, the scrutiny committee is simply made up of non-cabinet councilors and since the council is predominantly Lib Dem and generally in favour, impartiality is unlikely.

So then you might grumble to the local MP, but they're both in favour anyway and have other things on their minds (Goldsmith and Cable) so that probably won't go very far. So then you could go to the Mayor, but you know where that will get to. So then it's judicial review (Mrs 2gins is a govt lawyer so well aware of the process), or good old fashioned civil disobedience.

All we can really do is make sure that when it kicks in all those who didn't respond to the consultation and don't like it start telling people - local press (RT Times is just a mouthpiece for the liberals in council - but hey ho), social media noise etc. That's about it really.

Practically it'll be down to making sure that they are held to account for wasting £950k of public money when it turns out in 2021 that there hasn't been any change in collision rate or modal shift at all. Just in time for the 2022 local council elections, at which point I should imagine common sense will break out, but 4 years too late.

[Hoofy]

In other words, councils will do whatever they fking like and increase taxes and senior management salaries irrespective of whether people like it or not.

[2gins]

Would you like a hammer for that nail, the head looks quite large.

[Hoofy]

2gins said:

Would you like a hammer for that nail, the head looks quite large.

Seen this where I live in Surrey. We're trying to get them to turn the lights back on after 1am. Funnily, senior bod salaries go up year on year as do our council taxes.

[Type R Tom]

Despite the outcome of the consultation, which isn't binding in these cases, I would imagine they would be under a fair amount of pressure from TfL to lower the speed limit, pretty much all of London is going that way, Vision Zero and all that. I don't know what is in their LIP but if they want any money from TFL over the next few years they are going to need to show how they plan to improve sustainable travel, air quality etc. 20mph will be seen as part of that.

I don't know Richmond but if it is like Bromley some of it is countryside, I can't imagine it all being made 20mph as it would be stupid, however the town centres could be changed.

Haven't got time to read it all but on the surface, car usage is high and they want a shift to sustainable travel

https://haveyoursay.citizenspace.com/richmondecs/l...

Edited by Type R Tom on Friday 15th February 10:06

[2gins]

Spot on Tom. But the reality is that 20 mph has not increased cycling uptake, and in fact in Richmond cycle journeys have more or less doubled over 5 years without it. Apart from the Thames path the only purpose built cycle route I can think of in the borough is this TfL one on the A316

https://goo.gl/maps/fuQQobYbUpp

That requires the cycle to slow down and speed up again at every side road - 20 or so over 2 miles. Needless to say many cyclists just use the main road, which winds everybody up. There's loads of scope for quietways around the back streets, there's more cycle parking at the local Sainsbury's than in the town centre; its these things where the focus should be. I'd day probably around 50% of residents live in flats or converted terraces with no/little cycle storage - where are they supposed to keep a bike, let alone use it.

At the end of the day it's not the prospect of doing 20 mph that I object to, its more the rubbish arguments put forward and lack of imagination coupled with the constant expectation for drivers to suck it up.

[kev1974]

If they want more cycling then what Richmond need to do is find some way to provide properly secure and maintained cycle storage facilities, as in decently fenced off areas with a logged smart card to get in.

A huge number of properties are flats or small "railway cottage" terraces fronting directly on to street pavements, without gardens or yards or internal space to keep a bike. And if you leave them outside on the street they get stolen or damaged (wheels nicked etc). This is what keeps me from cycling, I bought the cheapest bike I could, and still the wheels got nicked, and then it cost me pretty much the same as I'd paid for the bike to get new wheels (because it's not just the wheel you need to replace, you have to get axles and gearset etc etc as well).

[2gins]

Update.

Scrutiny meeting was 25th Feb, not 25th March as reported in the local rag. Luckily I got my submission in in time.

10 people presented at the meeting, 3 standing councilors (which seems a bit odd), London and borough cycle activists, the local 20s Plenty guy, an A&E surgeon who spoke about his day job trying to save little girls' lives after road accidents and one other guy, all in favour. Two residents speaking against.

Passed scrutiny as you may have seen in the local papers. In addition, there was a motion passed to accelerate the phased introduction plan to get it all done this year.

Cabinet meeting sits this evening to give the final nod. There are various discussions ongoing and several complaints running through the council channels about the quality of the consultation, and the decision making etc.

49.7% against the proposal, 47.9% in favour - a slender majority with no overall support for or against. Pushing ahead is justified by the council on the grounds that

i) 52% of respondents agreed with the question "do you think reducing the speed limit to 20 mph will reduce the severity and frequency of accidents in the borough?" - a very leading question;

ii) there was majority support among under 19s and over 74s - about 8% of the response rate;

iii) By excluding a few roads the expectation is that more people would be in support, creating the majority in favour - but of course they don't know this because they haven't asked that question, so it is an assumption based on the premise that people were only opposed to the limit running past their front door (figuratively speaking - only concerned about their usual route) and not opposed to the concept of a whole borough 20- mph limit.

The majority support lies with a side roads only scheme, but the council won't support this. It is a manifesto commitment of course, other big headline manifesto commitments from the Lid Dems' 2018 campaign are:

"We’ll tackle town hall secrecy and put an end to ‘lip service’ consultations."

" Above all we will ... listen to, and act on, the concerns of borough residents."

"Work with local residents to deliver 20mph speed limits everywhere."
The key phrase here being "work with local residents"

"Making sure residents have a real say over the decisions that impact upon them and their community."

It will start within the next month. Kew goes first, including the A307 (soon to be the scene of a head-on collision due to rash overtaking, I'm sure). Barnes, Sheen, Mortlake, Richmond town will follow in Phase 1 I think before it comes to Twickenham probably over the summer and then out to Whitton, Teddington, Hampton in the autumn. I'm guessing at the timelines but the broad idea is the for North/East part of the borough with higher overall support rates to go first and the stragglers last.

Enforcement will be by community speed watch and PCSOs, Proper Plod where there is widespread ignorance.

So there you go.

[Blib]

It's terrific that they've listened to local residents.

[ashleyman]

Doubt Police will enforce it. They don't in the areas of Sutton that have 20 zones. You usually see them with the local speed team on the faster roads.

[2gins]

Anyone feels strongly enough about this or has an issue with a particular road, the traffic order is out and can be seen here, you have until the end of this week to submit any comments or objections.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/roads_and_tra...

I've flagged the A307 Kew Road as the average speeds are > 24 mph and the problem is parked cars for Kew Gardens not speeds.

Will it make any difference, probably not but I'm not one for lying down etc.

[Hoofy]

Thanks. Have shared FWIW.

[mumbojumbo1]

I've lived in Kew for 20 years and now in Kingston. Most of Ktown is already 20 limit including the road i live on.

i cant see this really having an effect, driving within the conditions and traffic means you're very rarely above 35, and the 20 zone in Ktown is not really policed at all, everyone zips around at 30

[kev1974]

Most of the roads I drive on in Richmond are just permaqueues now since Hammersmith & Fulham broke Hammersmith Bridge. Lucky to get to 20mph at all in the Eastern half of the borough.

[2gins]

Now in roll-out. Starting in Kew Green and Hampton with works moving inwards towards the river over the next 12 months. Changes to speed enforcement thresholds progressively area-by-area, no planned new enforcement cameras etc at this stage. No news on when the neighbourhood womble teams will start up.

https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/roads_and_tra...

Looking at the map it appears that the 40 mph stretch at Hampton Court / Bushy Park has been excluded after all, but this might just be the guy who did the map getting bored with it.

Stay safe out there people!

[kev1974]

lol the R1 - R11 "cells" that they're starting with are generally at a standstill during the day now due to Hammersmith Bridge anyway.

[Hoofy]

So is the main run down from Twickenham to Hampton Wick a 20 zone?

Have they not seen how nobody gives a st about the new 20 zone in Kingston from Kingston College to the Rotunda/cinema?

[mumbojumbo1]

Hoofy said:

So is the main run down from Twickenham to Hampton Wick a 20 zone?

Have they not seen how nobody gives a st about the new 20 zone in Kingston from Kingston College to the Rotunda/cinema?

Since they've narrowed all the roads in and around Kingston now to make space for the cycle highways speeding is a little touch and go.

[Hoofy]

mumbojumbo1 said:

Hoofy said:

So is the main run down from Twickenham to Hampton Wick a 20 zone?

Have they not seen how nobody gives a st about the new 20 zone in Kingston from Kingston College to the Rotunda/cinema?

Since they've narrowed all the roads in and around Kingston now to make space for the cycle highways speeding is a little touch and go.

True but you still get people fly past when I stick to the limit.