Pirbright Bends

[Arnold Cunningham]

I don't think that's fully correct - there are cameras on the 30 and 60 stretches too - I went up it yesterday.
Or are we saying 40 limit ones are live, but 30 & 60 ones are not since they bridge the speed limit crossovers, until the limit becomes blanket 40 everywhere?

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Wednesday 4th January 16:03

[bigothunter]

Arnold Cunningham said:

I don't think that's fully correct - there are cameras on the 30 and 60 stretches too - I went up it yesterday.
Or are we saying 40 limit ones are live, but 30 & 60 ones are not since they bridge the speed limit crossovers, until the limit becomes blanket 40 everywhere?

Increase the 30 limit to blanket 40? Nah - that would be dangerous. Blanket 30 is more likely...

[Arnold Cunningham]

Sort of. I am referring to this: https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetail...

But none of the limits have been moved or changed yet, I think.
Item iii DOES increase the limit from 30 to 40.

[COLONEL_SMITH]

I am not sure about only the 40mph area being covered either. The 40mph section from Keogh barracks has 1 camera, the next camera is way after you get into the 30mph section on the way back down the hill. Surely you need 2 cameras at each end of each mph change for it to work.
I am pretty sure the bloke from the council that fought to get them installed said they will only be live once the whole stretch is changed to 40 mph.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Here you go, this is from the planning application, but shows camera locations and the speed limits "as today".

So today, if you go from the mytchett place road and then along grange road, the only enforceable bit would be, the latter half of grange road, the rest of it is all bridging limits - so what/how would you enforce anything? And of course, gapemouth road and gole road also have some enforceable bits



Clearly I'm extra interested since I wasn't paying particular attention yesterday.

[Armchair_Expert]

Keogh Barracks / Grange Road I haven't looked at. I am talking about Gapemouth. Currently the cameras are positioned at the start and end of both 40 mph sections. The 30 mph section is 1) totally uncovered and 2) for most ordinary plebs averaging 30 would be hard enough anyway owing to it being bend after bend. There is no purpose in covering that section as there wouldn't be any revenue.

And the limit along there has only recently been lowered as I used to live on the road and campaigned successfully to have it lowered to 40 and 30 across the network owing to constant hooliganism. Raising it again seems totally counter productive and in conflict with the changes made circa 2010 / 2011 when I was there.

I need to look closely at the Keogh route but there has to be an anomoly. The network of roads and options are too complex for them to have it all covered properly, you can adjust course, take a turn or use a junction / drive to do a 180 and totally confuse the system. For example you can turn right out of Stanley Hill, go as fast as you want past 1 camera on that long stretch, then turn right and head back down to the S bend bridge, only passing 1 camera on that entire route. You then end up half way along the route what you were driving previously, and could then go back into Stanley and do it all again. You could basically stage a 60 lap race on that route and not pass any logical sequence of cameras. It was always flawed.

I strongly suspect a lot of the signage is scare mongering, with the most basic average speed algorithm existing between certain cameras only. The deviations and possibilities are far too complex for it to pass the legal threshold test when you introduce the umpteen variable routes driveable. Someone do a FOI in a year to fathom how many prosecutions have been made - I suspect very little if any.

[bigothunter]

Arnold Cunningham said:

Here you go, this is from the planning application, but shows camera locations and the speed limits "as today".

Thanks for the info

I'm very surprised by the red sections. How can raising the speed limit from 30 to 40mph be acceptable to safety campaigners? Surely locals will protest against this 'dangerous' increase?

[Armchair_Expert]

If you read what I wrote above, you already have half the answer. There are hardly any houses on that stretch and those that are there are detached and away from the road anyway. I doubt anybody would be bothered, but the limit was only recently reduced from an NSL and 40 to a 40 and 30, so I would be stunned if any raises occur. I suspect nothing will change along there now, it has already had an impact and that's the best they could hope for. Half of it is military land anyway.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Regarding the houses along Gole Road - I really agree with the reduction here - it seems this is obvious that there should be a limit here. FWIW, I think 30 here would be appropriate, lower than the 40 in place or proposed. Regarding 30 or 40 generally on the rest of the roads, 40 seems a decent speed, IMVHO

Absolutely convinced the cameras are not active yet. For the sake of "sharing", I stopped and took a pic on the front facing camera on my iphone today. This is the camera on your phone that CAN see infra red (the normal cameras can't any more, the have an infra filter on them). The pole I checked, in the pure 60 zone, does not appear to have have a live infra red light for the camera on it yet. I can't be bothered to make a special trip to look at all of them.

That said, having driven those roads many many times over the years, as I'm sure many of you have - even if they're not live, don't drive like a muppet on them. Far too many pedestrians and cyclists there plus and I've seen a lot of crashes over the years. Some lucky (once found a girl sitting upright on her motorbike in the bottom of the ditch - she was OK, but shocked), some less so that have gone home in a body bag.
(I used to commute along it almost daily)

The closest I've ever come to having a proper mega pile up was also on grange road a number of years ago. A bit too much enthusiasm on a car that was new to me. Thank goodness I got away with it and generally learnt the lesson, although my pride took a major hit.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 5th January 18:52

[Arnold Cunningham]

Armchair_Expert said:

If you read what I wrote above, you already have half the answer. There are hardly any houses on that stretch and those that are there are detached and away from the road anyway. I doubt anybody would be bothered, but the limit was only recently reduced from an NSL and 40 to a 40 and 30, so I would be stunned if any raises occur. I suspect nothing will change along there now, it has already had an impact and that's the best they could hope for. Half of it is military land anyway.

Certainly the planning permission approves the increase, as per my linky and image. Perhaps this is "Proof that nobody reads a single thing on this forum"

I'd be surprised if a council worker replacing the other signs is going to leave the 30 limit ones "just because", but I don't know what the protocol is there, whether once approved they have to implement it, or whether they can pick and choose. Finally, the Keogh Barracks corner (due to be reduced to a 30) is pretty tight, you'd have to have balls of steel make it round that corner at even 30, I think. So the impact of that reduction is fairly negligble other than booting it out of the corner.

[Armchair_Expert]

I do read, but what is the source of that image shared - as it doesn't make sense that having only recently reduced it, they will now increase it again. This at a time when limits are reducing everywhere. When was the last time a limit was raised anywhere - let alone in an area where it has only just been reduced owing to local campaigning.

The Keogh bend is easily taken at 35 plus if you know how to drive. Judging by your remarks about nearly losing it on Grange Road ( how, there's hardly any hazards there ) I presume you are a fairly amateur driver?

[Arnold Cunningham]

I am confidently worse than fairly amateur. Nobody gets it right all the time. Another vehicle moved in a manner, that, with hindsight, I should have anticipated. And I was going way too fast. Young & dumb. Now no longer young and hopefully slightly less dumb - it is many years ago. But you have reverted to internet insults again haven't you. We were all pretty rubbish at everything, once upon a time.

The image is from page 32, or 10 (depending on your perspective) of the pdf that's in the linky above:
https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/documents/s81834...

But I am trying to share the facts of the planning application and subsequent implementation of it since it may be useful or interesting to some.

Anyway, I'll bugger off your thread now. See Ya.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Friday 6th January 08:15

[Frimley111R]

Went through the PBs the other week. What a sad experience that was. Lovely twisty roads reduced to a crawl. I think I'll avoid the route completely now. I occasionally used it as a route from Camberley to Guildford.

[bigothunter]

Frimley111R said:

Went through the PBs the other week. What a sad experience that was. Lovely twisty roads reduced to a crawl. I think I'll avoid the route completely now. I occasionally used it as a route from Camberley to Guildford.

Getting pleasure from driving is an outmoded concept. Times have changed...

[Frimley111R]

bigothunter said:

Frimley111R said:

Went through the PBs the other week. What a sad experience that was. Lovely twisty roads reduced to a crawl. I think I'll avoid the route completely now. I occasionally used it as a route from Camberley to Guildford.

Getting pleasure from driving is an outmoded concept. Times have changed...

I think it really depends where you live, where you drive and how early on a Sunday morning you go out...

[bigothunter]

Frimley111R said:

bigothunter said:

Frimley111R said:

Went through the PBs the other week. What a sad experience that was. Lovely twisty roads reduced to a crawl. I think I'll avoid the route completely now. I occasionally used it as a route from Camberley to Guildford.

Getting pleasure from driving is an outmoded concept. Times have changed...

I think it really depends where you live, where you drive and how early on a Sunday morning you go out...

Revealing comment. Default now is driving in misery most of the time. Pleasure is possible but only by special arrangement. Wasn't always that way...
These days, my driving pleasure comes principally from circuits not the road. Roll on March 30th when we get going again

[COLONEL_SMITH]

Heads up I think the cameras are live today.
On my way home today all the signs are now 40 from pirbright village to Keough barracks.
Think they have done that today as in pretty sure it was still 60 into pirbright this morning. If it wasn’t I will probably be one of the 1st getting a ticket

[Frimley111R]

bigothunter said:

Revealing comment. Default now is driving in misery most of the time. Pleasure is possible but only by special arrangement. Wasn't always that way...
These days, my driving pleasure comes principally from circuits not the road. Roll on March 30th when we get going again

TBH I have been driving since the late 80s, it doesn't feel like it has changed much. During the day the roads are full of normal traffic but at night or early in the morning, especially in rural areas, it can be surprisingly clear/quiet. I've done a few driving weekends in Scotland and Wales and even at busy times the country roads are amazingly quiet. Around here you'll need to make an early start on Sundays. After that its game over mostly unless you're on your way to a TD.

[bigothunter]

Frimley111R said:

TBH I have been driving since the late 80s, it doesn't feel like it has changed much. During the day the roads are full of normal traffic but at night or early in the morning, especially in rural areas, it can be surprisingly clear/quiet. I've done a few driving weekends in Scotland and Wales and even at busy times the country roads are amazingly quiet. Around here you'll need to make an early start on Sundays. After that its game over mostly unless you're on your way to a TD.

Passed my bike test in 1969 and car test in 1970. Roads were mostly enjoyable to drive during '70s until mid 80's. During 1970s I remember coming down the A5 at high speed, only marginally slower than M1. Making fast progress cross-country on single carriageways was expected.

From around 1987 onwards, roads have been in decline. Now we have 40 and 50 limits where it was legal to do 70 and over 80 was realistic.

It's all gone to st. Thank goodness for track days...

[Armchair_Expert]

Still plenty of roads and routes around the area to drive which are devoid of any enforcement. You cam plan entire routes through the likes of Elstead, Shackleford, Normandy, Seale, Puttenham and Frensham and The Sands where you won't see another human being.