Original Speed 12 at TrackvRoad

Original Speed 12 at TrackvRoad

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Discussion

450Nick

Original Poster:

4,027 posts

211 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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Can anyone shed any light on this?? Where did it come from, who owns it and what's the plan...???

GasMunkey

5,697 posts

178 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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I must have it!

450Nick

Original Poster:

4,027 posts

211 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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Check the FB page... Mr Abbott is tagged in it, is he going for the Speed 12 high score??

C3BER

4,714 posts

222 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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Note to Richard and Criag:

Buy some more chocolate biscuits. wink

7 TVR

2,589 posts

167 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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??????? Someone educate me?

m60ddy

631 posts

211 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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C3BER said:
Note to Richard and Criag:

Buy some more chocolate biscuits. wink
Agreed, think I may have to check the progress of my Cerbera today. wink

450Nick

Original Poster:

4,027 posts

211 months

YRRunner

1,652 posts

215 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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7 TVR said:
??????? Someone educate me?
I believe it is the only Speed 12 in existence, not Cerbera Speed 12, but actual Speed 12, seen here and tested on Top Gear in its original white paint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
The Cerbera Speed 12 was cut and pasted from several different factory leftover parts and shells. The Speed 12 however was a purposely designed and moulded prototype TVR, one that rivalled the Bugatti Veyron for top speed with a 1000+ HP, 7.7L V12. It was at one point being suggested that this was the fastest car in the world. Later in its life it was even raced (not sure where) and was sponsored by Scania Trucks. Toward the end of Peter Wheeler's ownership of TVR, the car had many of its trick bits taken off and the chassis and shell were discarded behind the factory, until eventually given to the current owner by Peter Wheeler himself. The car currently at Track v Road is this very same car, an all carbon fibre bodyshell on its original chassis. Truly a wonderful piece of TVR history. I do wonder where the engine went though. Did it go in the Cerbera Speed 12? Perhaps someone on here could enlighten us further. It would be amazing to see it recommissioned and running, but could they still call it a Speed 12 if it has an AM or Jag unit in it, rather than two Speed 6's bolted together? bandit



Edited by YRRunner on Monday 26th November 12:35


Edited by YRRunner on Monday 26th November 17:57

450Nick

Original Poster:

4,027 posts

211 months

Monday 26th November 2012
quotequote all
YRRunner said:
I believe it is the only Speed 12 in existance, not Cerbera Speed 12, but actual Speed 12, seen here and tested on Top Gear in its original white paint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detail...
The Cerbera Speed 12 was cut and pasted from several different factory leftover parts and shells. The Speed 12 however was a purpously designed and moulded prototype TVR, one that rivalled the Bugatti Veyron for top speed with a 1000+ HP, 7.7L V12. It was at one point being suggested that this was the fastest car in the world. Later in its life it was even raced (not sure where) and was sponsored by Scania Trucks. Toward the end of Peter Wheeler's ownership of TVR, the car had many of its trick bits taken off and the chassis and shell were discarded behind the factory, until eventually given to the current owner by Peter Wheeler himself. The car currently at Track v Road is this very same car, an all carbon fibre bodyshell on its original chassis. Truly a wonderful piece of TVR history. I do wonder where the engine went though. Did it go in the Cerbera Speed 12? Perhaps someone on here could enlighten us further. It would be amazing to see it recommissioned and running, but could they still call it a Speed 12 if it has an AM or Jag unit in it, rather than two Speed 6's bolted together? bandit

I was under the impression that TVR Power have one of the old spare 12 engines at the moment - no idea what they're doing with it though. As I understand it, that engine had a twisted block and was near enough scrap - unless maybe someone has put down some cash to get it brought back from the dead? I think there were 5 speed 12 engines, 4 of which were finger follower engines (like the speed 6) with big bhp (due to more valve lift), though these were reported to be pretty unreliable. Then there was one bucket head engine (like the AJP8), which is now in the Red Cerb speed 12 - this was the most reliable engine and has lower bhp (800ish), but is more reliable and has been used in the road cars.

The one at Power then (if it is indeed there) should be a finger follower one then and maybe it has something to do with this find.. It would be interesting to hear who had it and why it's been dormant for so long though.. And then who owns it now and what are they going to do with it??

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

209 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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The engine in the picture is the bucket head Speed 12 engine and that is in W112. The original Speed 12 at TvR only ever ran a Speed 12 with Speed 6 heads. As with many TVRs this was repainted several times so it was the white car at one time. There was only ever 1 running Speed 12, which makes this car pretty unique.

The engine at Dom's is commonly referred to as the 'coffe table' because by common opinion of those in the know from TVR believe that's all it's fit for.
The other engines were either scrap from new or have been scavenged. The engine is unrelated to this car and indeed the last time I saw this engine it was sitting in a pool of oil on the floor of the 'Wesham Barn' when TVR were in occupation and they were intending to donate it to the National motor museum.

This car isn't really a 'find' as the car has been hidden in plain sight of those who knew where it was.

The Speed 12's body is fibreglass bonded to the chassis. The only carbon bit I can see is the rear aerofoil.

Edited by V8 GRF on Monday 26th November 16:17

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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YRRunner said:
The Cerbera Speed 12 was cut and pasted from several different factory leftover parts and shells. The Speed 12 however was a purpously designed and moulded prototype TVR,
Fairly sure its the other way around... the TVR Speed12 is a tubular chassis and GRP body, and they had massive problems with it cooking the drivers. IIRC it once lead a GT race then celebrated by promptly bursting into flames.

The later Cerbera speed 12 has a carbon / alloy matrix centre tub and a much ( well for tvr) more advanced construction.



There doesnt actually seem to be much of the speed 12 there just body and chassis, and some wheels propped against it. How much of the car actually exists.

At the very least it would be nice to rebuild it as a rolling ( i.e. pushing) display. with the coffee table engine in it.

I cant realistically see any other way it could be preserved correctly. putting a different motor in it wouldnt be right.

Rebuilding it as original spec with a non running motor would be better




V8 GRF

7,294 posts

209 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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Both cars are unique in their own way..

The Speed12 for me is the purest it was designed as a road/race car from the ground up with it's own chassis and styling, as Graham has said though for a number of reasons it wasn't a good car and to top it off the rules it was built to run under then changed. That said it's more of a road car than the Cerbera SP12 and I could actually see them being driven on the road.

The Speed 12 Cerbera was also designed from the ground up as a pure race car with just a nod to road use but it was made to look like a Cerbera (and looks are where any similarities end in reality) so as to have some relevance to production TVRs and no doubt something to do with homologation.

There's quite a lot of that car there and the bits are around or can be fabricated if you speak to the right people and have enough money. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if it was available and I had the necessary folding to do a proper job. That would include building a Speed12 with a cast block, which is a straightforward if not inexpensive thing to do in these days of CAD and 3D printing)

YRRunner

1,652 posts

215 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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David & Graham, I bow to your greater knowledge. I was always of the impression it was CF bodied, don't know where I got that info from. Sorry for the mis-information people.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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YRRunner said:
I was always of the impression it was CF bodied, don't know where I got that info from.
Probably some dodgy TVR press release.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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450Nick said:
I was under the impression that TVR Power have one of the old spare 12 engines at the moment - no idea what they're doing with it though. As I understand it, that engine had a twisted block and was near enough scrap - unless maybe someone has put down some cash to get it brought back from the dead? I think there were 5 speed 12 engines, 4 of which were finger follower engines (like the speed 6) with big bhp (due to more valve lift), though these were reported to be pretty unreliable. Then there was one bucket head engine (like the AJP8), which is now in the Red Cerb speed 12 - this was the most reliable engine and has lower bhp (800ish), but is more reliable and has been used in the road cars.
I didn't think that the head had much bearing on reliability. Did the 4v heads really get so hot that it made a considerable difference to the temp?

DavidY

4,458 posts

283 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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On it's first outing at Oulton









First Appearance at Motor Show


V8 GRF

7,294 posts

209 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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TA14 said:
I didn't think that the head had much bearing on reliability. Did the 4v heads really get so hot that it made a considerable difference to the temp?
I don't think the heads had anything significant to add to the heat it was just the way the car was designed with the exhaust routing and the fact it just produced loads of heat, remember this is from the early days of the Speed 6 engine when there were still issues.

The bucket heads on the W112 engine are similar in concept to the FFF heads now being produced by RG.

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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Id love to whip a mould of the body and build a replica to race in the tvr championship. Anyone want a sagaris shell hehe

stainless_steve

6,028 posts

257 months

Monday 26th November 2012
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I take it this is the one from Gorners?

King Fisher

739 posts

178 months

Wednesday 28th November 2012
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Been watching this with great interest! As V8GRF has said, this car is fibreglass with a tubular chassis; the Cerbera Speed 12 is much more advanced, and yes the engine from the car pictured went into the first Cerbera Speed 12. Apparently various parts of the suspension from this car ended up on the Cerbera Speed 12 too. Don't let the simple construction of this car fool you though; it is still damned quick in a straight line, as the YouTube video of it racing proves. From what TrackVRoad have hinted at on Facebook, this car may well be destined to race once again? I think Nick is planning a trip to see it next week to see it too...