New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
At the London Motor Show Les was very forthcoming about some of the current problems they were working on like the attachment points for the rear section where it meets the rear wing needing work before production could start and something about ABS testing being a long drawn out process
Nothing a show stopper - but this type of stuff in a 'monthly newsletter' would go a long way to keeping people interested and involved.
He was also visibly annoyed of people who weren't deposit holders commenting on the front end looks
Nothing a show stopper - but this type of stuff in a 'monthly newsletter' would go a long way to keeping people interested and involved.
He was also visibly annoyed of people who weren't deposit holders commenting on the front end looks
PuffsBack said:
He was also visibly annoyed of people who weren't deposit holders commenting on the front end looks
What an odd thing to say. Perhaps the front end looks is the reason those who negatively comment are not deposit holders. Wonder if he thought of that...Edited by chris watton on Saturday 18th August 10:55
essexstu said:
Having read dozens of posts on here I am concluding that PH users are generally "the glass is half empty" kind of people and find it easier to criticise rather than compliment. Quite sad really.
It’s remarkably like a penny share thread on one of the finance forums. Those who are in but stretched getting nervous, those who are happy to hold are quiet, those who are excessively bullish argue with the bears. Those who recently bailed become highly bearish and see news where there is non and want to talk down the stock to help justify their bailing out and everyone is living for the next RNS. Supposing I had a disposable £25K to spend.
I have recently been looking at Nineties Griff's (400's and 430's) with a view to buy soon. Yes there's an element of risk to that, mostly I believe in the unspecified mechanical nasties department. And it's getting close to the time of year when I would mainly be keeping the car garaged, but each time I took the car out I'd be having a ball although my sensible head would be thinking about wear and tear -- but most likely not depreciation ? Then next Spring I'd be getting her out again for 6 or 7 months fun.
OR.... I could now put down five deposits of £5K each on the new Griff. The downside would be the "if" and "when", and of course the slight detail that the money might evaporate.....but when we are all surprised and delighted (next Summer ?) when the cars start to be reality and the press and owners go ecstatic, I could deal with my deposits (call them Options) and sell 4 of them for £11K each to people who have lots of surplus Wonga and just want the car so badly. Then I could buy my sought-after 400/430 outright on the proceeds, and/or finance the balance on my remaining Option on a new Griff.
Would this strategy qualify me for a role in "Trading Places II", or am I just mad ? Discuss.
I have recently been looking at Nineties Griff's (400's and 430's) with a view to buy soon. Yes there's an element of risk to that, mostly I believe in the unspecified mechanical nasties department. And it's getting close to the time of year when I would mainly be keeping the car garaged, but each time I took the car out I'd be having a ball although my sensible head would be thinking about wear and tear -- but most likely not depreciation ? Then next Spring I'd be getting her out again for 6 or 7 months fun.
OR.... I could now put down five deposits of £5K each on the new Griff. The downside would be the "if" and "when", and of course the slight detail that the money might evaporate.....but when we are all surprised and delighted (next Summer ?) when the cars start to be reality and the press and owners go ecstatic, I could deal with my deposits (call them Options) and sell 4 of them for £11K each to people who have lots of surplus Wonga and just want the car so badly. Then I could buy my sought-after 400/430 outright on the proceeds, and/or finance the balance on my remaining Option on a new Griff.
Would this strategy qualify me for a role in "Trading Places II", or am I just mad ? Discuss.
I am not sure how accurate the content on this site is and there seems to be a disconnect with the images, but I thought this feature from the future was a very interesting read. To save you from clicking a phishing website, I have kindly reproduced the text below;
https://www.news18.com/news/auto/ford-edsel-and-se...
News18 Date: 18th August 2029
This weekend marks the 70th anniversary of Ford pulling the plug on the Edsel, a car brand that flopped so badly that its name has become a synonym for commercial failure. But while Ford may own the rights to the name Edsel, no end of carmakers have built 'Edsels' of their own since that fateful day in 1959.
On November 19, 1959, Ford lost $250 million. That's how much it cost to abandon the Edsel marque. Hyped as the car of the future ahead of its launch on September 4, 1957 and backed by one of the biggest marketing campaigns in automotive history, the Edsel failed spectacularly to live up to its billing.
Ford sold 116,000 Edsels and residual values were so bad owners were given $400 coupons to help them trade up to a new car.
The failure was huge yet, as the following list shows, carmakers didn't necessarily learn the lesson.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
TVR was a glamourous British GT carmaker and its flagship, the Speed 6 powered Sagaris, was out of reach to all but the super rich. So it decided to build another car with a smaller, cheaper powerplant. But then the company made a fatal error -- it decided to tune the engine locally. The resulting powerplant had a habit of shattering. TVR went under in 2020.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
A safety sportscar sounds like an automotive oxymoron but in 2019 it sounded like a good idea to the Welsh government, which subsidised the bizarre car's development. It had giant lights front and rear, a steel safety cage and temperamental door handles. Its one saving grace was a V8 engine. However, it never worked because no depositer bought one. The engine couldn't breathe.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Go beyond the carbon composite exterior and hidden door handles, and you'll find a car built from donor parts. The engine was from Ford, the brakes from AP. Early cars had reliability issues and by the time they were sorted, the company was in debt, the world in recession and the company's founder had been arrested on drug charges.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
This partnership should have been a recipe for success but the finished car, a collaboration between flamboyant, exciting Les Edgar and phenomenally reliable and solid Gordon Murray was completely unpalatable. Instead of GMD building a car based on a TVR design, TVR built a car based on a GMD design -- the worst of both worlds.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Built on a GMD platform for ultimate reliability but with a cabin that oozed 1970’s concept covered in leather associated with the best of British craftsmanship, the Griffith actually sold well initially. However, it didn't take long for things to go wrong. That GMD chassis was connected to the body and engine by the Welsh - a workforce with a terrible reputation for reliability and quality.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
If a camel is a horse designed by committee, all the Griffith is missing is two large humps on its roof. Wait sorry, it has those too. Hailed as the car that could save TVR when it launched, it ended up killing the brand altogether.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Forget what rappers say, the Griffith was bad. Based on an old T-25 platform, it was already out of date before it launched. Even though it had seats that reclined and roof humps, neither was enough to make the car stand out against the Toyota GT86.
Looks like most of the naysayers were proved right - but then again, could be Fake News. I'm still happy to hold
https://www.news18.com/news/auto/ford-edsel-and-se...
News18 Date: 18th August 2029
This weekend marks the 70th anniversary of Ford pulling the plug on the Edsel, a car brand that flopped so badly that its name has become a synonym for commercial failure. But while Ford may own the rights to the name Edsel, no end of carmakers have built 'Edsels' of their own since that fateful day in 1959.
On November 19, 1959, Ford lost $250 million. That's how much it cost to abandon the Edsel marque. Hyped as the car of the future ahead of its launch on September 4, 1957 and backed by one of the biggest marketing campaigns in automotive history, the Edsel failed spectacularly to live up to its billing.
Ford sold 116,000 Edsels and residual values were so bad owners were given $400 coupons to help them trade up to a new car.
The failure was huge yet, as the following list shows, carmakers didn't necessarily learn the lesson.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
TVR was a glamourous British GT carmaker and its flagship, the Speed 6 powered Sagaris, was out of reach to all but the super rich. So it decided to build another car with a smaller, cheaper powerplant. But then the company made a fatal error -- it decided to tune the engine locally. The resulting powerplant had a habit of shattering. TVR went under in 2020.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
A safety sportscar sounds like an automotive oxymoron but in 2019 it sounded like a good idea to the Welsh government, which subsidised the bizarre car's development. It had giant lights front and rear, a steel safety cage and temperamental door handles. Its one saving grace was a V8 engine. However, it never worked because no depositer bought one. The engine couldn't breathe.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Go beyond the carbon composite exterior and hidden door handles, and you'll find a car built from donor parts. The engine was from Ford, the brakes from AP. Early cars had reliability issues and by the time they were sorted, the company was in debt, the world in recession and the company's founder had been arrested on drug charges.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
This partnership should have been a recipe for success but the finished car, a collaboration between flamboyant, exciting Les Edgar and phenomenally reliable and solid Gordon Murray was completely unpalatable. Instead of GMD building a car based on a TVR design, TVR built a car based on a GMD design -- the worst of both worlds.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Built on a GMD platform for ultimate reliability but with a cabin that oozed 1970’s concept covered in leather associated with the best of British craftsmanship, the Griffith actually sold well initially. However, it didn't take long for things to go wrong. That GMD chassis was connected to the body and engine by the Welsh - a workforce with a terrible reputation for reliability and quality.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
If a camel is a horse designed by committee, all the Griffith is missing is two large humps on its roof. Wait sorry, it has those too. Hailed as the car that could save TVR when it launched, it ended up killing the brand altogether.
TVR Griffith (2019-2020)
Forget what rappers say, the Griffith was bad. Based on an old T-25 platform, it was already out of date before it launched. Even though it had seats that reclined and roof humps, neither was enough to make the car stand out against the Toyota GT86.
Looks like most of the naysayers were proved right - but then again, could be Fake News. I'm still happy to hold
essexstu said:
Having read dozens of posts on here I am concluding that PH users are generally "the glass is half empty" kind of people and find it easier to criticise rather than compliment. Quite sad really.
Only a fool with their head buried up to their waist in sand continues to compliment when constructive comments are needed in order to get some sort of response from a company that has taken a lot of money based on promises which so far look a long way from being delivered.Sometimes criticism is deserved and necessary, nothing to be sad about.
Any TVR enthusiast wants this to be successful but there are ways of doing business in order to keep the faithful motivated and on board, and at the moment the way TVR are conducting themselves is a long way adrift of that.
PuffsBack said:
At the London Motor Show Les was very forthcoming about some of the current problems they were working on like the attachment points for the rear section where it meets the rear wing needing work before production could start and something about ABS testing being a long drawn out process
Nothing a show stopper - but this type of stuff in a 'monthly newsletter' would go a long way to keeping people interested and involved.
He was also visibly annoyed of people who weren't deposit holders commenting on the front end looks
Was there any clue as to why this stuff was not featured in some form of update and why there are so few updates, despite the uproar ? It seems to be an established fact that they are following this and other forums. That makes it even stranger that they don't act earlier. Nothing a show stopper - but this type of stuff in a 'monthly newsletter' would go a long way to keeping people interested and involved.
He was also visibly annoyed of people who weren't deposit holders commenting on the front end looks
I get that it is a slippery road to get drawn into discussions in public forums, hardly ends well. But they can always pick up on it in official updates and set things straight.
At least the front-discussion seems to have made it to them. I think his statement towards non-deposit holders criticising the front is not smart, if not outright dangerous. These are not "non-deposit holders" but, as someone else already stated, "possible future deposit holders" or even better, "future buyers". The world and their dogs are commenting/blogging/influencing and this has become a trillion-dollar industry. This is the new normal. Besides, if one issue is coming up all the time, it's better to listen.
Good to hear about the confirmation that the wing will be retractable. I was afraid they'd go the easy way and make it fix.
RichB said:
julian64 said:
BJWoods said:
Better Angle of the New Griff at Beaulieu taking part in the Supercar Runs - lots of other TVRs aswell
(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
I'm obviously biased,but I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not laugh out loud when the two cerbs had a go. They eclipsed everything for noise and drama. They made all the exotic stuff look boring including the new griff. Just the right combination of serious and stupid of an age now lost.(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
If the new Griff didn't have to compare itself to its ancestry I'm sure it would be a good car in its own right, and even thought of as pretty. But if you put it at an event shared with other TVRs it definitely suffers, and not just from the Cerb.
Not too late Les.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGf_XVDv1Q
lordofthewings said:
Supposing I had a disposable £25K to spend.
I have recently been looking at Nineties Griff's (400's and 430's) with a view to buy soon. Yes there's an element of risk to that, mostly I believe in the unspecified mechanical nasties department. And it's getting close to the time of year when I would mainly be keeping the car garaged, but each time I took the car out I'd be having a ball although my sensible head would be thinking about wear and tear -- but most likely not depreciation ? Then next Spring I'd be getting her out again for 6 or 7 months fun.
OR.... I could now put down five deposits of £5K each on the new Griff. The downside would be the "if" and "when", and of course the slight detail that the money might evaporate.....but when we are all surprised and delighted (next Summer ?) when the cars start to be reality and the press and owners go ecstatic, I could deal with my deposits (call them Options) and sell 4 of them for £11K each to people who have lots of surplus Wonga and just want the car so badly. Then I could buy my sought-after 400/430 outright on the proceeds, and/or finance the balance on my remaining Option on a new Griff.
Would this strategy qualify me for a role in "Trading Places II", or am I just mad ? Discuss.
Do you set GCSE exam papers? If so then yes, the answer is mad.I have recently been looking at Nineties Griff's (400's and 430's) with a view to buy soon. Yes there's an element of risk to that, mostly I believe in the unspecified mechanical nasties department. And it's getting close to the time of year when I would mainly be keeping the car garaged, but each time I took the car out I'd be having a ball although my sensible head would be thinking about wear and tear -- but most likely not depreciation ? Then next Spring I'd be getting her out again for 6 or 7 months fun.
OR.... I could now put down five deposits of £5K each on the new Griff. The downside would be the "if" and "when", and of course the slight detail that the money might evaporate.....but when we are all surprised and delighted (next Summer ?) when the cars start to be reality and the press and owners go ecstatic, I could deal with my deposits (call them Options) and sell 4 of them for £11K each to people who have lots of surplus Wonga and just want the car so badly. Then I could buy my sought-after 400/430 outright on the proceeds, and/or finance the balance on my remaining Option on a new Griff.
Would this strategy qualify me for a role in "Trading Places II", or am I just mad ? Discuss.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 18th August 18:53
twold said:
Sorry it makes you sad ,because I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it all ,most entertaining.Long live half empty glasses.
Me too. If it wasn't for the loyalty of Spagbol and his mates this thread would have died months ago. Probably the best TVR thread on here. When things dry up I have been known to post something just to provoke them into keeping me amused. Edited by twold on Saturday 18th August 11:06
I find it very strange that there has just been a huge update yet it says nothing new so I blame Les for not giving Spag, Bullitt, Testa et al something new to feast on. Come on Les, I need to be entertained.....
N7GTX said:
twold said:
Sorry it makes you sad ,because I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it all ,most entertaining.Long live half empty glasses.
Me too. If it wasn't for the loyalty of Spagbol and his mates this thread would have died months ago. Probably the best TVR thread on here. When things dry up I have been known to post something just to provoke them into keeping me amused. Edited by twold on Saturday 18th August 11:06
I find it very strange that there has just been a huge update yet it says nothing new so I blame Les for not giving Spag, Bullitt, Testa et al something new to feast on. Come on Les, I need to be entertained.....
N7GTX said:
twold said:
Sorry it makes you sad ,because I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it all ,most entertaining.Long live half empty glasses.
Me too. If it wasn't for the loyalty of Spagbol and his mates this thread would have died months ago. Probably the best TVR thread on here. When things dry up I have been known to post something just to provoke them into keeping me amused. Edited by twold on Saturday 18th August 11:06
I find it very strange that there has just been a huge update yet it says nothing new so I blame Les for not giving Spag, Bullitt, Testa et al something new to feast on. Come on Les, I need to be entertained.....
ou sont les biscuits said:
RichB said:
julian64 said:
BJWoods said:
Better Angle of the New Griff at Beaulieu taking part in the Supercar Runs - lots of other TVRs aswell
(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
I'm obviously biased,but I don't know how anyone can watch that video and not laugh out loud when the two cerbs had a go. They eclipsed everything for noise and drama. They made all the exotic stuff look boring including the new griff. Just the right combination of serious and stupid of an age now lost.(couple of Cerbs really going for it later on)
https://youtu.be/xYEgpvuzvTQ?t=147
If the new Griff didn't have to compare itself to its ancestry I'm sure it would be a good car in its own right, and even thought of as pretty. But if you put it at an event shared with other TVRs it definitely suffers, and not just from the Cerb.
Not too late Les.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgGf_XVDv1Q
DonkeyApple said:
It’s remarkably like a penny share thread on one of the finance forums. Those who are in but stretched getting nervous, those who are happy to hold are quiet, those who are excessively bullish argue with the bears. Those who recently bailed become highly bearish and see news where there is non and want to talk down the stock to help justify their bailing out and everyone is living for the next RNS.
I’m going to Kings Cross tonight to see if it is tipped in the Sunday papers..essexstu said:
Having read dozens of posts on here I am concluding that PH users are generally "the glass is half empty" kind of people and find it easier to criticise rather than compliment. Quite sad really.
It is sad. And I have remained quiet since the latest embodiment on TVR was announced in order to give the new team time to stamp their authority and make their intentions clear. Unfortunately, I suspect that the glass is a lot less than half empty. The new TVR is less than mediocre imho. The current management team seems to be on some kind of vanity project rather than being aware of what customers want or think of what is offered thus far. My old boss (Peter Wheeler), was a fantastic engineer, designer, judge of character and bloke. He was absolutely in tune with his customers wishes and just as importantly, he understood the value of a motor show.When the latest fantastical 200mph sculpture was released from Bristol avenue to the world, my old boss, friend and hero, would position himself against the railings and LISTEN! I know this because I was quite often stood on the other side of the railings listening to what he had learned and how we were about to incorporate this learning into our otherwise brilliant 200mph sculptures. He also encouraged styling creativity or (wackiness) as he used to call it. He understood that being creative, forwards thinking and different was a unique selling point, providing that it was done in good taste.
For gods sake Les, put your elbow on the railings and open your ears! Probably best to put the judgement of your eyes in someone else's hands though. Seemingly, styling management isn't something that you have mastered yet. Nor is customer relations! It's a real shame, I wanted you to succeed but I am totally convinced now that you will not.
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