New TVR still under wraps!

[ChilliWhizz]

bullittmcqueen said:

The e-future might not be that bad.

Hand PH card in on way out...........

[bullittmcqueen]

ChilliWhizz said:

bullittmcqueen said:

The e-future might not be that bad.

Hand PH card in on way out...........

, lol, i'll hand it in and also change my nick

[TwinKam]

Would love to have eavesdropped on the steam car boys when they realised that internal combustion was going to be the future...
"No clouds of steam, no smell of coal, that's 2/3 of the experience for me, gone!"
But "no new IC cars to be built after 2040" doesn't mean that those in existance can't still be used... we all know that TVRs can be made to last for ever
Edited to add: What a fantastic display of Stanley Steamers at the FoS this year

Edited by TwinKam on Wednesday 26th July 11:37

[DonkeyApple]

Why did they chose 2040 and not 2039? Because they know the date will slip and setting the date at 2040 gives them 9 years of slippage before a big figure change that makes them look silly.

Absolutely nothing will have happened by 2040 other than the loss of billions of taxpayer funds and every person involved being superbly wealthy and consulting at all the firms that are in receipt of the tax payer funds.

No date for the big switch is remotely relevant until batteries are cheap enough for EVs to be cheaper to run.

[FarmyardPants]

Can't wait to see what happens when 5 million people start drawing an extra 10kW on a Friday night

"Now that the footy game's finished I think I'll charge the cars, put the kettle on and take a nice shower"

Edited by FarmyardPants on Wednesday 26th July 12:45

[bullittmcqueen]

DonkeyApple said:

Why did they chose 2040 and not 2039? Because they know the date will slip and setting the date at 2040 gives them 9 years of slippage before a big figure change that makes them look silly.

Absolutely nothing will have happened by 2040 other than the loss of billions of taxpayer funds and every person involved being superbly wealthy and consulting at all the firms that are in receipt of the tax payer funds.

No date for the big switch is remotely relevant until batteries are cheap enough for EVs to be cheaper to run.

I think the time is ripe now. I was pushing this as far away as i could from me, too. This is absoluetly gaining momentum, german carmakers are getting a pounding for emission evasion, diesel is on it's way out. China is pushing e-cars heavily, weather is pouring observable climate change into cellars and streets of deniers everywhere. Record temperatures in each year. There's also massive government talk and legislation!!! (they came up with preliminary legislation for self-driving cars and designated test-strips on public autobahn-tracks within a year where it usually takes 10 years to discuss a color change for recycle-bins). I would never have predicted this 5 years ago. This is total change of mindset and attention. It's gained critical mass. Not in production yet, but in presence and awareness and that's how change starts.

The 2040 date might or might not work, but it certainly does not mean everything will move on unchanged until 2040 and then with a bang everything is different. The changes will be felt starting now. See Volvo announcement. See VW/Daimler annoucement (producing 25% of cars as all-electric in 2022, Tesla pales in comparison).
German carmakers have basically been living in a bubble and total state of denial until now, but someone just poured a bucket of ice-cold water into their warm, cozy beds. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are connected to producing IC engines. I've seen a Mercedes unionist spokesman recently in front of a showcase V8 2000 part IC engine and its comparable 1/4th of size, 30 part electrical engine counterpart and he was really desparate trying to convince people of how many jobs will go if we go electric. This guy had "fear" written all over his face. But you could tell that he knew that it's battle he's going to lose. There will be lot of money to be made in developing and patenting the next innovations in battery-technology and this is where a lot of heavyweights are investing their time and money right now.

Legislation and taxation will gradually start to penalize ic-engines and this will happen a lot earlier than 2040. It will move from bonuses for e-cars to penalties for ic-cars.

And don't worry, they will figure something out to increase tax-revenue by raising taxes for e-cars/electricity once they become more common and raising them even more for ic-engines. They will also make owning an ic-car as uncomfortable as they can. High emissions ? Sorry, stay clear of the inner city. Parking ? Sorry, only for e-cars, but there's a park-and-ride 20 miles from here. Picking kids up from in front of school ? Sorry, only e-cars, emissions not good for the little fellows, you know ?

GM said "I see the new TVR as the last shout for the proper sports-car". Doesn't take a visionary to understand how right he is.

[rev-erend]

Cant wait for the tuning world to catch on to the possibility of adding a battery pack and additional electric motors to existing petrol endinged cars as a performance upgrade.

My SEAC would fly..

[phazed 11.83]

bullittmcqueen said:

I think the time is ripe now. I was pushing this as far away as i could from me, too. This is absoluetly gaining momentum, german carmakers are getting a pounding for emission evasion, diesel is on it's way out. China is pushing e-cars heavily, weather is pouring observable climate change into cellars and streets of deniers everywhere. Record temperatures in each year. There's also massive government talk and legislation!!! (they came up with preliminary legislation for self-driving cars and designated test-strips on public autobahn-tracks within a year where it usually takes 10 years to discuss a color change for recycle-bins). I would never have predicted this 5 years ago. This is total change of mindset and attention. It's gained critical mass. Not in production yet, but in presence and awareness and that's how change starts.

The 2040 date might or might not work, but it certainly does not mean everything will move on unchanged until 2040 and then with a bang everything is different. The changes will be felt starting now. See Volvo announcement. See VW/Daimler annoucement (producing 25% of cars as all-electric in 2022, Tesla pales in comparison).
German carmakers have basically been living in a bubble and total state of denial until now, but someone just poured a bucket of ice-cold water into their warm, cozy beds. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are connected to producing IC engines. I've seen a Mercedes unionist spokesman recently in front of a showcase V8 2000 part IC engine and its comparable 1/4th of size, 30 part electrical engine counterpart and he was really desparate trying to convince people of how many jobs will go if we go electric. This guy had "fear" written all over his face. But you could tell that he knew that it's battle he's going to lose. There will be lot of money to be made in developing and patenting the next innovations in battery-technology and this is where a lot of heavyweights are investing their time and money right now.

Legislation and taxation will gradually start to penalize ic-engines and this will happen a lot earlier than 2040. It will move from bonuses for e-cars to penalties for ic-cars.

And don't worry, they will figure something out to increase tax-revenue by raising taxes for e-cars/electricity once they become more common and raising them even more for ic-engines. They will also make owning an ic-car as uncomfortable as they can. High emissions ? Sorry, stay clear of the inner city. Parking ? Sorry, only for e-cars, but there's a park-and-ride 20 miles from here. Picking kids up from in front of school ? Sorry, only e-cars, emissions not good for the little fellows, you know ?

GM said "I see the new TVR as the last shout for the proper sports-car". Doesn't take a visionary to understand how right he is.

Beautifully put, thoughtful, frightening, realistic and certainly doesn't fit in with most of our lifestyles.

Unfortunately we are not going to be able to avoid this whether it comes in five years or 25 years time.

Have your fun now guys because the future is bright, the future is eventually all with batteries.

Switches off PC, grabs keys and goes for a long drive in a proper car with a 5.5 L engine that does 12 miles to the gallon if you're lucky !



Damm, battery 's flat!

[N7GTX]

phazed 11.83 said:

bullittmcqueen said:

I think the time is ripe now. I was pushing this as far away as i could from me, too. This is absoluetly gaining momentum, german carmakers are getting a pounding for emission evasion, diesel is on it's way out. China is pushing e-cars heavily, weather is pouring observable climate change into cellars and streets of deniers everywhere. Record temperatures in each year. There's also massive government talk and legislation!!! (they came up with preliminary legislation for self-driving cars and designated test-strips on public autobahn-tracks within a year where it usually takes 10 years to discuss a color change for recycle-bins). I would never have predicted this 5 years ago. This is total change of mindset and attention. It's gained critical mass. Not in production yet, but in presence and awareness and that's how change starts.

The 2040 date might or might not work, but it certainly does not mean everything will move on unchanged until 2040 and then with a bang everything is different. The changes will be felt starting now. See Volvo announcement. See VW/Daimler annoucement (producing 25% of cars as all-electric in 2022, Tesla pales in comparison).
German carmakers have basically been living in a bubble and total state of denial until now, but someone just poured a bucket of ice-cold water into their warm, cozy beds. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are connected to producing IC engines. I've seen a Mercedes unionist spokesman recently in front of a showcase V8 2000 part IC engine and its comparable 1/4th of size, 30 part electrical engine counterpart and he was really desparate trying to convince people of how many jobs will go if we go electric. This guy had "fear" written all over his face. But you could tell that he knew that it's battle he's going to lose. There will be lot of money to be made in developing and patenting the next innovations in battery-technology and this is where a lot of heavyweights are investing their time and money right now.

Legislation and taxation will gradually start to penalize ic-engines and this will happen a lot earlier than 2040. It will move from bonuses for e-cars to penalties for ic-cars.

And don't worry, they will figure something out to increase tax-revenue by raising taxes for e-cars/electricity once they become more common and raising them even more for ic-engines. They will also make owning an ic-car as uncomfortable as they can. High emissions ? Sorry, stay clear of the inner city. Parking ? Sorry, only for e-cars, but there's a park-and-ride 20 miles from here. Picking kids up from in front of school ? Sorry, only e-cars, emissions not good for the little fellows, you know ?

GM said "I see the new TVR as the last shout for the proper sports-car". Doesn't take a visionary to understand how right he is.

Beautifully put, thoughtful, frightening, realistic and certainly doesn't fit in with most of our lifestyles.

Unfortunately we are not going to be able to avoid this whether it comes in five years or 25 years time.

Have your fun now guys because the future is bright, the future is eventually all with batteries.

Switches off PC, grabs keys and goes for a long drive in a proper car with a 5.5 L engine that does 12 miles to the gallon if you're lucky !



Damm, battery 's flat!

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Bullitt's observations - very well put - are going to be so true.
The announcement today also includes millions for local government to help with this yet the same local government allows dirty, stinking, ancient buses - 1995 wrecks around here - to crawl through the streets belching clouds of the noxious diesel smoke. I know where the diesel scrappage scheme should start....

[anonymous-user]

I suspect that low volume manufacturers will be exempt from the ban, just like they currently are from a crash, emissions and OBD standp point.

When all the mass market, high volume cars are EV's no one is going to care about a few last remaining dinosaurs being used for fun!

(although you might be banned from the city centres in rush hour, which isn't really a TVRs natural habitat anyway!)

[Jurgen Schmidt]

If you've ever seen the film 'In Time' with Justin Timberlake, set way in the future, then you may recall the scene where he buys a sports car, and he's asked by the dealer where he wants it to be delivered to for display purposes....Justin's character says hell no, I want to drive it

Will there be a time in the future where 99% cars driven will be electric, and the other 1% TVRs, Ferraris, Lambos etc

If these cars stand out today, what will they be like in the future? Can only be good for prices, assuming petrol is still available, now where's that Mad Max DVD...

[m4tti]

Jurgen Schmidt said:

now where's that Mad Max DVD...

Usually found in your local charity shop if you want a copy.

[DonkeyApple]

Jurgen Schmidt said:

Will there be a time in the future where 99% cars driven will be electric, and the other 1% TVRs, Ferraris, Lambos etc

In reality that would be the nirvana. EVs will be brilliant for replacing the generic crapboxes that sit in traffic all day carrying out mundane transport duties.

Imagine walking through London and there being no noise from a million car engines sitting in traffic jams and several miles away you can hear a V12 or V8 open up.

I think most people relish quiet and mechanically simple EVs for our utility purposes but have lived long enough to genuinely fear the fkwits who will try and ban all ICE in the name of their insane religions and doctrines.

[christof]

Some questions coming into my mind after the press releases:

(1) Will the car have full EEC type approval
(2) Is there a business case for a LHD version without having a LHD dealer network
(3) As weight seems to be the key feature, are the 1200kg referring to dry weight, wet, or EEC. This will make a huge difference.
(4) Who is in charge for doing all the required testing to ensure the promised quality

C.

[carsy]

So where does that leave the value of our current TVR's come 2040.

Worthless or just the opposite due to the, by then rarity of the good old ic engine. I suppose a lot depends on how they will tax us for road tax and fuel duty.

Will petrol be as readily available in years to come or will we struggle to fill up and complete lengthy journeys just as electric motors do now.

I suspect short term we will be fine but ultimately anything with an ic engine will be finished and pretty much worthless.

Enjoy them while you can.

[phazed 11.83]

I will be 89 then so frankly my dear.....................

In all seriousness we will be taxed off the road.

Older cars get away with it at the moment. What are our cars taxed at now, £280?

Later larger cars , so much more, my ML about £480.

Now, at todays costs, I would pay £1,000 in car tax but I bet this will soar to about £3K or more as a massive deterrent so as usual it doesn't matter to the haves and the rest of us can only look on with envy recalling our past joys.......

[Jhonno]

DonkeyApple said:

Jurgen Schmidt said:

Will there be a time in the future where 99% cars driven will be electric, and the other 1% TVRs, Ferraris, Lambos etc

In reality that would be the nirvana. EVs will be brilliant for replacing the generic crapboxes that sit in traffic all day carrying out mundane transport duties.

Imagine walking through London and there being no noise from a million car engines sitting in traffic jams and several miles away you can hear a V12 or V8 open up.

I think most people relish quiet and mechanically simple EVs for our utility purposes but have lived long enough to genuinely fear the fkwits who will try and ban all ICE in the name of their insane religions and doctrines.

I think you are right sadly.. Whilst a small % of ICE cars used for recreation/hobby would have little to no effect on the environment, the loony, hair-brained fkwits will want to ruin that, and have them all banned. Sad, but true. It is how today's society works.

[m4tti]

Time travel might be possible by them so don't sweat it

[bullittmcqueen]

christof said:

Some questions coming into my mind after the press releases:

(1) Will the car have full EEC type approval
(2) Is there a business case for a LHD version without having a LHD dealer network
(3) As weight seems to be the key feature, are the 1200kg referring to dry weight, wet, or EEC. This will make a huge difference.
(4) Who is in charge for doing all the required testing to ensure the promised quality

C.

Are you German by any chance ?

1) Will have SSTA (Small Series Type Approval) so fulfills all of the latest EU-regulations (Euro 6, Crash-Tests, etc.) and SSTA approval should guarantee hazzle-free admission without very little administrative overhead (they won't do it for you, but it is a full EU-admission, noone you have to persuade or bribe :-) to get in on the street).

2) Yes, i will only buy LHD and Les assured me that they plan for the european market. Since the cars will be factory-pickup in the beginning anyways, a dealer network might or might not follow. If they want to target US markets in the future, LHD is a must.

3) Kerb weight as far as i understood, meaning a fully runnable, fueled and greased car without passenger (or am i wrong here ? )

4) Don't know, but they will make sure it's ok as they said that is their paramount concern.


Edited: Les said all LHD orders would be built in a batch, probably closer to the end of the 500 LE production run, regardless of position in the order queue, but in their respective order. Majority seem to be RHD, though.

Edited by bullittmcqueen on Thursday 27th July 12:36

[christof]

bullittmcqueen said:

Are you German by any chance ?

1) Will have SSTA (Small Series Type Approval) so fulfills all of the latest EU-regulations (Euro 6, Crash-Tests, etc.) and SSTA approval should guarantee hazzle-free admission without very little administrative overhead (they won't do it for you, but it is a full EU-admission, noone you have to persuade or bribe :-) to get in on the street).

2) Yes, i will only buy LHD and Les assured me that they plan for the european market. Since the cars will be factory-pickup in the beginning anyways, a dealer network might or might not follow. If they want to target US markets in the future, LHD is a must.

3) Kerb weight as far as i understood, meaning a fully runnable, fueled and greased car without passenger (or am i wrong here ? )

4) Don't know, but they will make sure it's ok as they said that is their paramount concern.


Edited: Les said all LHD orders would be built in a batch, probably closer to the end of the 500 LE production run, regardless of position in the order queue, but in their respective order. Majority seem to be RHD, though.

Edited by bullittmcqueen on Thursday 27th July 12:36

Yes.

(1) Will it have NSSTA or ECSSTA?
(2) Not sure how this will work?
(3) 1200 KG "wet" weight is a tough task, especially with a big and heavy V8, not sure how they will achieve this, but we will find out when the first car will be on a scale
(4) Learning how they will perform all the required testing would be very interesting



C.