New TVR still under wraps!

[spagbogdog]

spagbogdog said:

...maybe think about a move to ‘the valleys’...

Yup !!... I guess we’re bound for Folkestone then...to wazz around the Continent

[spagbogdog]

spagbogdog said:

spagbogdog said:

...maybe think about a move to ‘the valleys’...

Yup !!... I guess we’re bound for Folkestone then...to wazz around the Continent

Better table tennis over there too, Peter !!!
See ya at the Copper Box on Sunday 25th...?????

[phazed]

spagbogdog said:

Better table tennis over there too, Peter !!!
See ya at the Copper Box on Sunday 25th...?????

Sadly not, previously booked family do that necessates my presence although I don’t agree with that

Another time.

[spagbogdog]

phazed said:

spagbogdog said:

Better table tennis over there too, Peter !!!
See ya at the Copper Box on Sunday 25th...?????

Sadly not, previously booked family do that necessates my presence although I don’t agree with that

Another time.

Dizzz...arsssse...terrrrrr ...

Jersey and Notts GP’s..?????

[PuffsBack]

phazed said:

The comparisons are a little unfair as the Griffith camera angle is purposefully straight on accentuating the front.

As for buying the sag, you are buying into old technology. The car may look modern but underneath it is not that different from my chim. The new car however is completely different with a welcome new engine and up to date technology and is the one that I would buy.

Does technology make for a better car? - my family Merc Estate has radar cruise, can steer itself on the motorway, drive 100% autonomous in a traffic jam, change gear in response to the sat nav, park itself and has headlights made up of multi LED's that it can dim and switch on and off depending in on coming traffic. Plus it has multiple cameras, reads road signs, has a head up display like a fighter jet and is 'internet connected' It has more technology than a Dixons megastore

Yet I don't want to take it in place of the Sag on a Sunday morning blast!!!

Nothing wrong with double wishbone suspension, a manual gearbox and the Speed Six

.....to be fair the reception and quality of the Merc's sound system is much better

Edited by PuffsBack on Saturday 17th February 22:33

[phazed]

PuffsBack said:

Does technology make for a better car? - my family Merc Estate has radar cruise, can steer itself on the motorway, drive 100% autonomous in a traffic jam, change gear in response to the sat nav, park itself and has headlights made up of multi LED's that it can dim and switch on and off depending in on coming traffic. Plus it has multiple cameras, reads road signs, has a head up display like a fighter jet and is 'internet connected' It has more technology than a Dixons megastore

Yet I don't want to take it in place of the Sag on a Sunday morning blast!!!

Nothing wrong with double wishbone suspension, a manual gearbox and the Speed Six

.....to be fair the reception and quality of the Merc's sound system is much better

Edited by PuffsBack on Saturday 17th February 22:33

Yep, you are talking to a Mercedes owner so I get that, wouldn’t be without mine.

Having just come back from a 120 mile fun drive today in my Chim with similar power to weight ratio as the new griff, I can tell you that it was great fun but put a little finesse in there and keep the same sort of recipe and I could definitely go for that.

[spagbogdog]

[quote=PuffsBack][quote=phazed]

Does technology make for a better car?

Good question that..
...
....
Is an Evo chassis better than Dom’s re~Interpretation..?

[fullpull]

PuffsBack said:

Does technology make for a better car? - my family Merc Estate has radar cruise, can steer itself on the motorway, drive 100% autonomous in a traffic jam, change gear in response to the sat nav, park itself and has headlights made up of multi LED's that it can dim and switch on and off depending in on coming traffic. Plus it has multiple cameras, reads road signs, has a head up display like a fighter jet and is 'internet connected' It has more technology than a Dixons megastore

Yet I don't want to take it in place of the Sag on a Sunday morning blast!!!

Nothing wrong with double wishbone suspension, a manual gearbox and the Speed Six

.....to be fair the reception and quality of the Merc's sound system is much better

Edited by PuffsBack on Saturday 17th February 22:33

I’m in your camp. For the everyday multipurpose transportation the technology loaded (powerful) cars of today (and tomorrow) are great and I can’t even say it’s not fun driving them. They need to be able to deliver a little bit of everything though, kind of a decathlon.

TVRs, and especially so in the PW era, were built for one purpose: fun.
That was certainly achieved very well and I think the pure, analogue driving experience, the “rawness” combined with beautiful flowing design, and with engineering that wasn’t compromised by a million other requirents still make these cars most attractive and very unique to me. And of course they are still available for the (surprisingly few) ones who like them.

Most younger folks look for something more teched-up (and safer) though and of course each to their own. The new Griffith needs to conquer its own territory. I think new TVR are on the right track.

Edited by fullpull on Sunday 18th February 09:45

[pblake]

With all the rules and regs of what a new car must be able to do I think the age of the analogue car is now dead. All modern cars have to be designed for the lowest common denominator to get from point a to b as safely as possible. This in its general nature will have two impacts on the cars we drive.
The first is anyone who grows up in this age will have a real problem going back to an analogue car and this could mean lots of write offs with people who have money but no concept of how to drive.
The second is us established drivers will get more pleasure out of the cars we as they will be such a contrast to a more modern car. And we can drive more safely knowing that all the bad drivers will be taken out of play by their cars.
I wonder when the middle lane feature will come in.

[PuffsBack]

"TVRs, and especially so in the PW era, were built for one purpose: fun."- surely that's the killer point. The only reason we own TVR's is for fun, I delight in the power the noise the pantomime. Is the new Griffth going to deliver more fun than a Sagaris? I doubt it.

Perversely to my post above - I don't think the new Griff has that much new technology in it anyway. Trick suspension - nope (so no better really than a Sag), Manual Gearbox - one cog more, Engine - Hmmm no hybrid in that thing

All I can see is it has a flat floor which I doubt is going to make any difference on the road and screwing a big piece of plastic to the bottom of the car because you don't have to route the exhausts isn't exactly going to keep Apple awake at night. It seems to have some Carbon for lightness but errr it weighs more that a Sag!

I have no issue with the new Griff and can't wait to see one on the road but I have to say its not got me rushing to part ex my Sag. Maybe I am to hung up on the looks

[bullittmcqueen]

PuffsBack said:

"TVRs, and especially so in the PW era, were built for one purpose: fun."- surely that's the killer point. The only reason we own TVR's is for fun, I delight in the power the noise the pantomime. Is the new Griffth going to deliver more fun than a Sagaris? I doubt it.

Perversely to my post above - I don't think the new Griff has that much new technology in it anyway. Trick suspension - nope (so no better really than a Sag), Manual Gearbox - one cog more, Engine - Hmmm no hybrid in that thing

All I can see is it has a flat floor which I doubt is going to make any difference on the road and screwing a big piece of plastic to the bottom of the car because you don't have to route the exhausts isn't exactly going to keep Apple awake at night. It seems to have some Carbon for lightness but errr it weighs more that a Sag!

I have no issue with the new Griff and can't wait to see one on the road but I have to say its not got me rushing to part ex my Sag. Maybe I am to hung up on the looks

I just don't get the point you're trying to make ? Sagaris is done. Over. Oldtimer. Are you saying they should rebuild the Sag ? They are aiming for European and international markets and they have to to survive. That means latest regulations, not shed-built homegrown plastique stuff .

"New technology" basically means it's a new car in 2018 that will fulfill the latest requirements in terms of emissions, crash-safety, ergonomics and still is as analogue as it gets. That's a BIG, BIG achievement. Cars like this, built by spleeny people who stick to the philosophy of the brand, aren't made anymore that often. So even IF they had decided to redo the Sag, they would have needed to start from scratch.

The new car has a big displacement (proven and tested) V8, no fluffy turbos or compressors, no bullst and someone who is a legend in sportscars has overlooked the entire development.

Why not applaud it ? Not because you like the car, but because someone teleported the spirit of TVR into the present ? I don't get it, i always thought this kind of criticism was unique to Germans. 1250 kg is very lightweight by todays regulations. You can't a compare the weight of a prehistoric Sag to a 2018 compliant car. If you hit anything solid with a Sag, you're dead and the car is done.

Sorry for the rant.

[Griffithy]

bullittmcqueen said:

I just don't get the point you're trying to make ? Sagaris is done. Over. Oldtimer. Are you saying they should rebuild the Sag ? They are aiming for European and international markets and they have to to survive. That means latest regulations, not shed-built homegrown plastique stuff .

"New technology" basically means it's a new car in 2018 that will fulfill the latest requirements in terms of emissions, crash-safety, ergonomics and still is as analogue as it gets. That's a BIG, BIG achievement. Cars like this, built by spleeny people who stick to the philosophy of the brand, aren't made anymore that often. So even IF they had decided to redo the Sag, they would have needed to start from scratch.

The new car has a big displacement (proven and tested) V8, no fluffy turbos or compressors, no bullst and someone who is a legend in sportscars has overlooked the entire development.

Why not applaud it ? Not because you like the car, but because someone teleported the spirit of TVR into the present ? I don't get it, i always thought this kind of criticism was unique to Germans. 1250 kg is very lightweight by todays regulations. You can't a compare the weight of a prehistoric Sag to a 2018 compliant car. If you hit anything solid with a Sag, you're dead and the car is done.

Sorry for the rant.

Just playing devil´s advocat.

Does a cheaply built car result in a good car regardless?
1250 kg is very lightweight compared to what?
How do you know, that it is so so much better than a sorted Sag or similar.
You sound like VAG marketing machine promissing it all.

[bullittmcqueen]

Griffithy said:

Just playing devil´s advocat.

Does a cheaply built car result in a good car regardless?
1250 kg is very lightweight compared to what?
How do you know, that it is so so much better than a sorted Sag or similar.
You sound like VAG marketing machine promissing it all.

Cheap it ain't. My impression is they aim for simplicity and minimalism, which, in my book, is a good thing. Also, it looks as if for the first time in a TVR, proper engineering has been applied. You just can't compare the old stuff to a 2018-compliant car. They are worlds apart. I have an eye on the cobra-scene in Germany and main-issue running through all discussions there is admission, emission and street-legality. It's what finally put me off buying one. I jumped ship as soon as i heard of the TVR.

1250 is lightweight for a car-like looking car that is 2018-compliant. Exige is at 1100, a 911 Turbo is over 1600, C7 Z06 also 1600, Aventador 1575. This puts the Griff in the lightweight compartment.

I don't know if it's better. Noone knows. But i'd bet on the Griff. The main point is though, that you cannot buy a new Sag anymore, but you can (hopefully) buy the new Griff.

Not a marketing machine, just a guy who is genuinely excited about the fact that a bad-ass old-school car has a good chance of becoming reality. I truly thought these days were gone. It's not without flaws, still not fond about the front, at least not in the pics.

[PuffsBack]

bullittmcqueen said:

I just don't get the point you're trying to make ? Sagaris is done. Over. Oldtimer. Are you saying they should rebuild the Sag ? They are aiming for European and international markets and they have to to survive. That means latest regulations, not shed-built homegrown plastique stuff .

"New technology" basically means it's a new car in 2018 that will fulfill the latest requirements in terms of emissions, crash-safety, ergonomics and still is as analogue as it gets. That's a BIG, BIG achievement. Cars like this, built by spleeny people who stick to the philosophy of the brand, aren't made anymore that often. So even IF they had decided to redo the Sag, they would have needed to start from scratch.

The new car has a big displacement (proven and tested) V8, no fluffy turbos or compressors, no bullst and someone who is a legend in sportscars has overlooked the entire development.

Why not applaud it ? Not because you like the car, but because someone teleported the spirit of TVR into the present ? I don't get it, i always thought this kind of criticism was unique to Germans. 1250 kg is very lightweight by todays regulations. You can't a compare the weight of a prehistoric Sag to a 2018 compliant car. If you hit anything solid with a Sag, you're dead and the car is done.

Sorry for the rant.

No need to apologise - well other than to call me an old timer! - especially when the new Griff looks like something my Granny would drive when put next to a Sag

My point is simply given a new Griff and Str8Six's Sag are a similar price so which would people choose? Yes the Sag is 15 years old but its commanding prices near a new Griff for a good one so in essence its a direct competitor. I certainly wasn't suggesting that start building Sag's again, no chance it would pass any regulation!

My Rant coming

To be honest I think I am still p1$$ed with Gordon Murrays comment about TVR's having crap ergonomics about 2 years ago - like every time I go to the garage to get my Cerb out I think err no perhaps not, the fact I can't adjust the seat with the door shut is just ruining the experience for me! Regulation is all very well but it kills individuality which in turn makes life very dull, boring and repetitive.

Literally that one comment turned me off

[swisstoni]

I’m just not getting this Sagaris comparison. Do Ferrari or Porsche care that some of their old stuff sells for more than their new stuff? I’m guessing no. In fact it probably helps.

[spagbogdog]

I honestly think that the new Griffith is underpriced. £90k seems excellent value.
I suspect it really needs to be £145k.
I further suspect that once people realise what they’ve got they will feel very privileged indeed.
Les knows he has to win over the doubters..the ‘nay sayers’.
A ‘loss~leader’...?
Able to leave a Sag way behind in its rear view mirror..and at the same time wrapping its arm around its ‘Father’...saying “c’mon Dad..let’s have some fun..let’s go f..k em all..”

[bullittmcqueen]

PuffsBack said:

No need to apologise - well other than to call me an old timer! - especially when the new Griff looks like something my Granny would drive when put next to a Sag

My point is simply given a new Griff and Str8Six's Sag are a similar price so which would people choose? Yes the Sag is 15 years old but its commanding prices near a new Griff for a good one so in essence its a direct competitor. I certainly wasn't suggesting that start building Sag's again, no chance it would pass any regulation!

My Rant coming

To be honest I think I am still p1$$ed with Gordon Murrays comment about TVR's having crap ergonomics about 2 years ago - like every time I go to the garage to get my Cerb out I think err no perhaps not, the fact I can't adjust the seat with the door shut is just ruining the experience for me! Regulation is all very well but it kills individuality which in turn makes life very dull, boring and repetitive.

Literally that one comment turned me off

You seem to have a cool granny At least from that point of view they both hardly raise the impression of being family cars.






I really like the Sag, there's no denying. Point with your comparison simply is, that they are not available in numbers. You cannot buy 500 Sags. Btw, i'm sure they could have built a compliant Sag-Look-a-like, but it would not have worked from a marketing perspective.

As i said, i was about to spend an amount higher than that for the Griff into a semi-legal, life-threatening Cobra-replica with potential for shutdown by police at any drive-by. Glad i didn't, now i'm counting the days till i get my Griff.

ps.: Don't take GMs comment personally, you have to admit: being able to adjust the seats with closed doors is a nice feat. Ah, and to make that clear: the "oldtimer" was the Sag, not you

[Monkeylegend]

spagbogdog said:

I honestly think that the new Griffith is underpriced. £90k seems excellent value.
I suspect it really needs to be £145k.
I further suspect that once people realise what they’ve got they will feel very privileged indeed.
Les knows he has to win over the doubters..the ‘nay sayers’.
A ‘loss~leader’...?
Able to leave a Sag way behind in its rear view mirror..and at the same time wrapping its arm around its ‘Father’...saying “c’mon Dad..let’s have some fun..let’s go f..k em all..”

Whatever you are on, I want some.

[m4tti]

swisstoni said:

I’m just not getting this Sagaris comparison. Do Ferrari or Porsche care that some of their old stuff sells for more than their new stuff? I’m guessing no. In fact it probably helps.

I don’t think it’s really a comparison, it’s the fact that if you want a real analogue car, you can get one that looks the dogs twitcher for the same price in a sagaris.

[spagbogdog]

Monkeylegend said:

spagbogdog said:

I honestly think that the new Griffith is underpriced. £90k seems excellent value.
I suspect it really needs to be £145k.
I further suspect that once people realise what they’ve got they will feel very privileged indeed.
Les knows he has to win over the doubters..the ‘nay sayers’.
A ‘loss~leader’...?
Able to leave a Sag way behind in its rear view mirror..and at the same time wrapping its arm around its ‘Father’...saying “c’mon Dad..let’s have some fun..let’s go f..k em all..”

Whatever you are on, I want some.