New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
dvs_dave said:
Given port injection coyote in the UK Mustang pushes 420 hp and the TVR version makes at least 480 hp (to maintain that 400hp/ton), that’s approx a 15% increase. About right for a tuned up yank motor. Their base tunes typically leave a lot of “headroom”.
Apply that same logic to the now standard with 450hp DI Coyote engine, and you’re looking at at least 520hp for the TVR version, possibly more. Not too shabby!
Yeah that's gonna be a bit of an animal!Apply that same logic to the now standard with 450hp DI Coyote engine, and you’re looking at at least 520hp for the TVR version, possibly more. Not too shabby!
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
BJWoods said:
GazzaM100 said:
I heard the engine in it isn't available/meets required regulations anymore, can't remember which. Any truth in it?
You heard..Who from. Or are just spreading malicious unverified gossip.
Latest official, is TVR are using the very latest spec engine
I'm all for TVR's return and hope it's a big success and that they eventually make mad cars like the originals
Testarossa said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Spoke passionately and from the heart
Thanks Bullitt.That image does look nice, but I have seen it in the flesh and cannot get over the size of the headlamp covers - all they need to do is tweak that small aspect and it will have a completely different/aggressive character.
Max_Torque said:
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
Ultimately, the value isnin the Cosworth sticker on the engine. The key is to pay just enough to be able to put that sticker on it but not too much that the cost erodes the marketing gain. The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
Cosworth’s job will be to just do enough fettling within a limited budget to deliver something for the marketing team.
The issue is that as you say, manufacturers aren’t leaving as much on the table for tuners as they used to. Especially when we’re not talking about tweaking a chip or changing a pulley on an FI system but needing proper engineering solutions.
The new TVR Griffith was at Silverstone Classic yesterday taking part in parade laps with other 'Supercars' and their predecessors ie BMW M1 and I8 etc, the new Griffith looks very compact compared to other large /wide 'Supercars' and is probably more suited to our roads, the exhaust note was also reminiscence to the Le Mans Corvettes. It you compare it to say new Lexus Coupe (which was the same colour red) it looks a very svelt design. Notice 60's Griffith 200 in the background.
I think it will be there all weekend.
Rob
Edited by RobMk2a on Saturday 21st July 11:12
Well, it certainly doesn't look outrageous like the TVR's of old, and I would honestly not know that was a TVR on the road, like I immediately know with the older models. Perhaps that's a good thing, business-wise, I guess relatively bland sells more and it appeals to a wider spectrum.
But not me...
But not me...
Max_Torque said:
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
Perhaps, but the DI Coyote in the US pushes 466hp as standard. And the voodoo version which isn’t DI is just over 100hp/L standard. The reason it was easy to increase the original output with simple mods (new exhausts etc) is because the base engine was in a low state of tune, therefore simple mods to flow more air means more power. But the latest Gen3 engine has those mods as std, meaning any gains are harder to find. Not impossible, but harder and smaller.
If you accept a rev limit of around 7 to 7.5 krpm, typical for a large, medium output production motor, then you are looking at a maximum of around 100 bhp/litre (ie 500bhp). You might sneak that up to 105 bhp/litre, with very careful work, for 525 bhp, but no way are you going to exceed those figures for a production spec motor.
NA 100hp/L is nothing particularly special these days, so I don’t think it unreasonable for Cosworth to be able to easily hit 500-520hp with their mods.
Ok they’re exotics, so very different budgets, but Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi all have NA engines that far exceed that that number.
dvs_dave said:
NA 100hp/L is nothing particularly special these days, so I don’t think it unreasonable for Cosworth to be able to easily hit 500-520hp with their mods.
Ok they’re exotics, so very different budgets, but Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi all have NA engines that far exceed that that number.
Note the engine speed at which they exceed 100bhp/litre.......Ok they’re exotics, so very different budgets, but Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi all have NA engines that far exceed that that number.
(for an NA engine, power = revs, 7k is typically just enough for 100bhp/litre, you need 8k for 110bhp/litre, and you'll be heading up into the high 8's / 9's for any more than that)
So, if the std bottom end is rev limited, and it will be for a mass produced engine, then you simply won't be able to rev the engine enough to make use of any aggressive ports or cam profiles etc
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Ahem!RobMk2a said:
The new TVR Griffith was at Silverstone Classic yesterday taking part in parade laps with other 'Supercars' and their predecessors ie BMW M1 and I8 etc, the new Griffith looks very compact compared to other large /wide 'Supercars' and is probably more suited to our roads, the exhaust note was also reminiscence to the Le Mans Corvettes. It you compare it to say new Lexus Coupe (which was the same colour red) it looks a very svelt design. Notice 60's Griffith 200 in the background.
I think it will be there all weekend.
Rob
[footnote]Edited by RobMk2a on Saturday 21st July 11:12[/fmootnote]
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