New TVR still under wraps!
Discussion
The factory has been a smoke screen all along by the looks of it and hoping to use Brexit as an excuse or the welsh government who are incompetent blar blar
The bloke has let everyone down from day 1 and the comms suggest he and his team are incompetent or just don’t give two f
ks about your money. After all it’s only 5k a piece he’s spunked off you.
The bloke has let everyone down from day 1 and the comms suggest he and his team are incompetent or just don’t give two f
ks about your money. After all it’s only 5k a piece he’s spunked off you. bullittmcqueen said:
It's 2019, with 2022 new admission stuff (GPS-ISA, BlackBox, etc.) already lurking around the corner. You can't build cars in a shed anymore, at least none that will be allowed to drive on a public road. And it's hard to make it profitable even in scale. So "handbuilding in a shed" is on opposing ends with "make it 2019-regulations compliant" and "cheaper". Also i-Stream only gets you to the chassis easier, it's not popping out finished cars with the flick of a switch.
Also, trying to make a cheaper car, like a Lotus Elise, as suggested, wouldn't have made any difference. They would still have to outsource, still have to engineer, still have to get financing, still have to get type approval, still have to get a factory. At this point, they'd be in exactly the same spot with ANY car. They also couldn't have reused the Sagaris. They would have had to start from scratch there as well.
Also, whether the Griff is too expensive will only be decided once (if ever) it's out.
Taken by face value, the whole venture (leaving the general madness of starting a small scale sports car manufacturer aside) was (hopefull still is) pretty promising:
iconic British brand revival, going for the niche, tech-credibility by GM, government involvement.
The mounting headwinds are breathtaking, though. 3 years ago i would not have thought that public sentiment would swing this fast, but now we got Fridays for future, Brexit, CO2 in every second headline.
The question is not, whether we like the front of the Griff, what's ahead is a series of extinction level events for cars like this.
I'm holding on, either way.
There is a positive take on this - we may have lost £5k but the alternatives (AMG GTR, AM Vantage, various Macs, 488, Huracan etc.) have lost more than 5k in depreciation since the unveil in 2017 Also, trying to make a cheaper car, like a Lotus Elise, as suggested, wouldn't have made any difference. They would still have to outsource, still have to engineer, still have to get financing, still have to get type approval, still have to get a factory. At this point, they'd be in exactly the same spot with ANY car. They also couldn't have reused the Sagaris. They would have had to start from scratch there as well.
Also, whether the Griff is too expensive will only be decided once (if ever) it's out.
Taken by face value, the whole venture (leaving the general madness of starting a small scale sports car manufacturer aside) was (hopefull still is) pretty promising:
iconic British brand revival, going for the niche, tech-credibility by GM, government involvement.
The mounting headwinds are breathtaking, though. 3 years ago i would not have thought that public sentiment would swing this fast, but now we got Fridays for future, Brexit, CO2 in every second headline.
The question is not, whether we like the front of the Griff, what's ahead is a series of extinction level events for cars like this.
I'm holding on, either way.
so we are probably up when Les admits defeat. Think of it like Les's Asset Management, if he returns the money...SEPT 2017 £5,000 purchase of TVR securities
MAY 2019 Value of purchased securities £5,000 par value - FTSE Indexed Tracker down 1.1%
Thanks Les, just don't do a public offering for your investment bank, you ain't no Morgan
Stanley.
I had my first experience of TVR nearly 50 years ago......
Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......
TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.
The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur...
In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...
So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....
Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....
Chilli..
Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......
TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.
The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur...
In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...
So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....
Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....
Chilli..
baconsarney said:
I had my first experience of TVR nearly 50 years ago......
Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......
TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.
The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur...
In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...
So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....
Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....
Chilli..
Agree Completely and he could have saved the cost of buying the TVR badge.Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......
TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.
The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur...
In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...
So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....
Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....
Chilli..
baconsarney said:
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge.
Why do you think that? Is it because of the engine?Unlike MINI, TVR are not owned, built and designed by a parent company. They
leglessAlex said:
baconsarney said:
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge.
Why do you think that? Is it because of the engine?Unlike MINI, TVR are not owned, built and designed by a parent company. They
Ok... as a four time owner of new TVR’s from 1992 to 2000 and someone who regularly put deposits on as soon as a model was announced hopefully although it’s 19 years since I had one I’m qualified to make a comment. ( At one point by the end of the motorshow in 94 I owned a pre -cat Griff, had a deposit on a Griff 500 and had immediately also put a deposit on what was then the Rover V8 engined Cerb.)
So I’ll say it ....what on earth is this bloke playing at ?? By his lack of communication to those that wanted him to succeed he is, one by one, alienating each bloody one of them.In late ‘95 there were whimperings by some of the Cerb deposit holders (many who had come from other brands) as to whether this car actually existed. So TVR invited those deposit holders down to Pinewood studios and showed the pre-production cars to us and let us have a brief drive.Although they was as rough as could possibly be, at least we saw that something existed, and we felt valuable. With this blokes PR the absolute opposite is true, he’s making himself, the car and the brand become a laughing stock.
I was tentatively asked by Kerridges if I wanted to put a deposit down and it was an immediate “ no” based on what seemed fag packet stuff with a couple of big names thrown in for effect. It was no more likely to appear in 3 years as the Trident Iceni or the Arash Farboud let alone be a success.
Who’s hare -brained scheme was it to pretend to be part of a race team, does anyone honestly think that will/has helped to sell even one car ??
Get your money out, it’s not happening, the message in the lack of info is deafening and the treatment of those who have chucked 5k at him is nothing sort of disgusting.Who’d have thought that the new TVR could have learned anything about customer service and PR .. from the old TVR ?!
So I’ll say it ....what on earth is this bloke playing at ?? By his lack of communication to those that wanted him to succeed he is, one by one, alienating each bloody one of them.In late ‘95 there were whimperings by some of the Cerb deposit holders (many who had come from other brands) as to whether this car actually existed. So TVR invited those deposit holders down to Pinewood studios and showed the pre-production cars to us and let us have a brief drive.Although they was as rough as could possibly be, at least we saw that something existed, and we felt valuable. With this blokes PR the absolute opposite is true, he’s making himself, the car and the brand become a laughing stock.
I was tentatively asked by Kerridges if I wanted to put a deposit down and it was an immediate “ no” based on what seemed fag packet stuff with a couple of big names thrown in for effect. It was no more likely to appear in 3 years as the Trident Iceni or the Arash Farboud let alone be a success.
Who’s hare -brained scheme was it to pretend to be part of a race team, does anyone honestly think that will/has helped to sell even one car ??
Get your money out, it’s not happening, the message in the lack of info is deafening and the treatment of those who have chucked 5k at him is nothing sort of disgusting.Who’d have thought that the new TVR could have learned anything about customer service and PR .. from the old TVR ?!
Loving the fanboy who is trying to portray investing £5k in Les' round the world WEC tour as cheaper than losing depreciation on a AMG. 
Perhaps, you might have something to show for it though? Might have enjoyed blatting about?
Anyway, anyone else who wants to avoid the depreciation on a new Merc or Aston by not buying one, please PM me, I'll take your money and piss it against the wall for you. No point in nobody enjoying it.
Perhaps, you might have something to show for it though? Might have enjoyed blatting about?
Anyway, anyone else who wants to avoid the depreciation on a new Merc or Aston by not buying one, please PM me, I'll take your money and piss it against the wall for you. No point in nobody enjoying it.
Looking back I posted the following on July 5th 2015 on a thread about the "New TVR" and deposits etc..
The post will be having it's 4th birthday soon. Plenty of people apparently handed over $5k for "New TVR", to misquote Paul Simon "on a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises".
Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.
Astonishingly there were few takers for my beans but I think they were a better bet.
The post will be having it's 4th birthday soon. Plenty of people apparently handed over $5k for "New TVR", to misquote Paul Simon "on a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises".
Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.
Astonishingly there were few takers for my beans but I think they were a better bet.
unrepentant said:
Looks like there's some truly discerning punters on here who know a good thing when they see it.
That being the case I have recently acquired some special beans. I can't say too much at this stage but they have certain properties that will deliver a certain result that will make everyone involved very rich. I'm not prepared to discuss the exact properties of the beans or when I will be actually delivering the first batch to the lucky investors but I think I've told you enough to make it clear that I am well versed in the matter of magic beans and can be trusted with your money. At this stage I'm going to be very particular about who I let have access to the beans. I'm going to restrict supply to those believers who send me a cheque (or cash - used non sequential bills only please) by way of an initial deposit for 5000 pounds.
Mail your cheques (made out to cash) or cash to;
Unreps Magic Beans Ltd
PO Box 666
Geneva
Switzerland
I'll be in touch once enough lucky customers have signed up.
Unrep's magic beans ltd make no representation, verbally or otherwise to the quality or otherwise of any beans that may or may not exist and do not undertake to deliver said beans at any time now or in the future. All deposits are final, no refunds. In the event of any dispute contracts are executed in Somalia and any dispute arising thereof will be heard and settled in the court of Judge Unrepuncle in Mogadishu.
That being the case I have recently acquired some special beans. I can't say too much at this stage but they have certain properties that will deliver a certain result that will make everyone involved very rich. I'm not prepared to discuss the exact properties of the beans or when I will be actually delivering the first batch to the lucky investors but I think I've told you enough to make it clear that I am well versed in the matter of magic beans and can be trusted with your money. At this stage I'm going to be very particular about who I let have access to the beans. I'm going to restrict supply to those believers who send me a cheque (or cash - used non sequential bills only please) by way of an initial deposit for 5000 pounds.
Mail your cheques (made out to cash) or cash to;
Unreps Magic Beans Ltd
PO Box 666
Geneva
Switzerland
I'll be in touch once enough lucky customers have signed up.
Unrep's magic beans ltd make no representation, verbally or otherwise to the quality or otherwise of any beans that may or may not exist and do not undertake to deliver said beans at any time now or in the future. All deposits are final, no refunds. In the event of any dispute contracts are executed in Somalia and any dispute arising thereof will be heard and settled in the court of Judge Unrepuncle in Mogadishu.
It's been almost 6 years (June 2013) since Autocar's article that cars 'could' be ready by 2015…. 
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-tv...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-tv...
El stovey said:
bullittmcqueen said:
Otoh, if i were to build this car, i would have stopped looking into this thread a long while ago.
TVR certainly used to comment on here, being the biggest TVR forum and set up for TVR fans.Where would you be getting feedback from?
The sentiment in here has turned to very negative and i understand that. It's in large part TVRs fault. Otoh, they've been consistent with their update strategy over the past time (yes, also with announcing stuff that didn't happen). If it's a smart strategy is an entirely different matter.
I'm just trying to make sense of the situation. Obviously things aren't going as planned and there is only silence. Not good and even i'm sort of pissed. But if things were about to hit the wall, why would they appoint 2 new directors (Smith and Overington). Why would the government tender the factory refurbishment (and btw, the government is paying, that's probably why they take care of the process) Does anyone in here really believe Les did that to get access to paddock in Le Mans and have sticker on the car ? Honestly ? Spend 6 years of their time having s
tloads of stress and little fun, bearing the comments in this forum only to rip us buggers from our measly 5k deposits for a grand total of ~2 Mio ? And having the Welsh government on board to watch the whole show ? What a ridiculous thought.So back to the point. I think there's nothing to be gained from taking part in this forum. It's a game you can't win, you can't please anyone saying that all this is not the TVR from 20 years ago. I'm sure they are aware of the sentiment here, but maybe staying silent is their best option at the moment.
I also believe that the past 6 years have brought a paradigm change for the entire car industry. Climate change was a distant thing, self driving cars total phantasy, uber only available in a few cities and basically unheard of. Today, we got the UK leaving the EU (well, trying to), record heat waves all over the world, Greta Thunberg speaking at Davos, ICE engines to be banned from 2030 in more and more countries. Unheard of EU-regulation (emissions, GPS-speed geo-fencing, black-boxes, alco-locks).
The speed, scale and breadth of change ripping through the car-industry is unprecedented. It's too easy and just not fair to rip TVR to shreds by stating "they should have known it/planned for it/just built it on time/are idiots/told you so" and finishing it all off with "any idiot can build cars in a barn" and "it's not a TVR anyway because it's not a Sagaris".
I'm with you on the communication issues, though.
So, whatever will be, will be.
Bullitt, I agree with some of your comments, no problem.
I do not understand why they have not started building any more cars. In the last update (or one before) Les said that if the main factory was not going to be completed on time, he would look to start in the development unit. The tender process was completed well before Xmas and the update said work should hopefully start in January '19. As far as I know, no work has commenced at all and its now May. Yes, government depts can be very slack but in this instance I do wonder if the Welsh Ministers are holding off as Les expected to be in the factory around July '19.
The £2.5m loan was granted with a condition that other funding would be sourced by Les/TVR (see the details on Companies House) and that the government would not call it in before its due term which is 2021. It seems to me that the additional investment required to comply with the terms of the loan have not (yet) been made. The Welsh Ministers will be very wary of the criticism and flak they will get if they are seen to be chucking the taxpayers' cash at a dodgy venture. So I can only conclude that they will wait for the investment to be in place before releasing any money to refurbish a factory. That makes sense to me.
But, if Les is serious then he should be starting to build more cars at the other unit. Unless of course he knows the investment is unlikely to appear and spending the loan (now almost £3m with interest) will become a huge gamble. While 2021 is 2 years away, time is running out to refurb the factory (6 months), fit it out, hire and train staff, source all the parts, start production and sell the cars to recoup the necessary income to continue production and repay at least £3m.
I do not understand why they have not started building any more cars. In the last update (or one before) Les said that if the main factory was not going to be completed on time, he would look to start in the development unit. The tender process was completed well before Xmas and the update said work should hopefully start in January '19. As far as I know, no work has commenced at all and its now May. Yes, government depts can be very slack but in this instance I do wonder if the Welsh Ministers are holding off as Les expected to be in the factory around July '19.
The £2.5m loan was granted with a condition that other funding would be sourced by Les/TVR (see the details on Companies House) and that the government would not call it in before its due term which is 2021. It seems to me that the additional investment required to comply with the terms of the loan have not (yet) been made. The Welsh Ministers will be very wary of the criticism and flak they will get if they are seen to be chucking the taxpayers' cash at a dodgy venture. So I can only conclude that they will wait for the investment to be in place before releasing any money to refurbish a factory. That makes sense to me.
But, if Les is serious then he should be starting to build more cars at the other unit. Unless of course he knows the investment is unlikely to appear and spending the loan (now almost £3m with interest) will become a huge gamble. While 2021 is 2 years away, time is running out to refurb the factory (6 months), fit it out, hire and train staff, source all the parts, start production and sell the cars to recoup the necessary income to continue production and repay at least £3m.
Edited by N7GTX on Sunday 5th May 01:12
ianwayne said:
It's been almost 6 years (June 2013) since Autocar's article that cars 'could' be ready by 2015….
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-tv...
The one line that struck me in that article............"none of us have built a car"https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-tv...
Well you have now.
Tyre Smoke said:
Loving the fanboy who is trying to portray investing £5k in Les' round the world WEC tour as cheaper than losing depreciation on a AMG.
Sorry mate, I only like women. But good luck on your search.Oh wait, I see, when you said you loved me, you didn't really mean it, you were displaying sarcasm............ Or were you?
Apologies, what I did here was take the piss out of you without really seeing what you were saying. Then to add insult to injury I labelled you a fan of men, when I don't really know where your loyalties lie.
However, I did cum all over my laptop at the thought my amazing put down would win me total admiration of all the TVR haters and elevate me to god like status merely by picking on a poster who probably has the same feelings toward TVR as I have.
The pen is mightier than the sword eh?
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