I find it extraordinary...
Discussion
ianwayne said:
And why not. It's what TVR claimed in their pamphlets in 1999 / 2000:
I find it extraordinary that anyone expects a seller to do anything other than quote the manufacturer's stated power figures. That goes for any car, not just a TVR.
What are they supposed to do? Pay for a rolling road test and then have people shoot it down as a biased power figure like ofter happens? Take a wild guess?
All manufacturer's claims are probably to be taken as ambitious but its the only data 99% of sellers have access to. If a car is obviously down on power, a test drive should reveal it. And as for auctions (classic real ones as well as online ones like eBay), well I'm surprised what some cars reach considering you're buying with no test or comeback, only the auctioneers and / or vendor's description.
Speaking to Joolz he stated that most 4.5 AJPs develop around 370-380 bhp iirc.I find it extraordinary that anyone expects a seller to do anything other than quote the manufacturer's stated power figures. That goes for any car, not just a TVR.
What are they supposed to do? Pay for a rolling road test and then have people shoot it down as a biased power figure like ofter happens? Take a wild guess?
All manufacturer's claims are probably to be taken as ambitious but its the only data 99% of sellers have access to. If a car is obviously down on power, a test drive should reveal it. And as for auctions (classic real ones as well as online ones like eBay), well I'm surprised what some cars reach considering you're buying with no test or comeback, only the auctioneers and / or vendor's description.
Conversation was along the lines of similar power to my RV8 but less torque.
My humble Chim 400 is in need of a camshaft change so it currently runs out of steam above 4,000rpm- I dread to think what the numbers would be if I were to get it on a dyno as it is. Could potentially be getting on for 50% less than TVR's original claims!
BUT...
Having come from a succession of swift, but fairly torque-less sporty Hondas, my 400 still feels 'suitably eager' out on the road due to the low down torque vs what I'd always been used to- it's all a matter of perspective innit'.
I've been chatting to Rob at V8D about my options, on the basis that there is a chance a cam change might lead to an engine-out strip-down if anything looks worn- an ideal opportunity to try and capture some of TVR's original fanciful ponies. I'm particularly interested in their Stage-3 heads & induction package upgrade.
This could potentially get the car slightly above TVR's original published figures, which (coming from my current pitiful numbers) will represent a huge increase in performance and dare I say it, actually seem pretty decent value for money! Like I say, perspective!
BUT...
Having come from a succession of swift, but fairly torque-less sporty Hondas, my 400 still feels 'suitably eager' out on the road due to the low down torque vs what I'd always been used to- it's all a matter of perspective innit'.
I've been chatting to Rob at V8D about my options, on the basis that there is a chance a cam change might lead to an engine-out strip-down if anything looks worn- an ideal opportunity to try and capture some of TVR's original fanciful ponies. I'm particularly interested in their Stage-3 heads & induction package upgrade.
This could potentially get the car slightly above TVR's original published figures, which (coming from my current pitiful numbers) will represent a huge increase in performance and dare I say it, actually seem pretty decent value for money! Like I say, perspective!
Like I said, from a TVR brochure:
I had my last Chimaera 400 on a dyno in 2016 after having all the injectors cleaned. It had gone up by 8 bhp to 211.
When I mentioned this, I was told actually that's quite a good one compared to some that can't reach 200. It had 83k miles on it at the time and I was pretty sure the cam was worn.
I had my last Chimaera 400 on a dyno in 2016 after having all the injectors cleaned. It had gone up by 8 bhp to 211.
When I mentioned this, I was told actually that's quite a good one compared to some that can't reach 200. It had 83k miles on it at the time and I was pretty sure the cam was worn.
Yes, the most annoying aspect of TVR figures from the PW era (power, torque and performance) is that some were accurate, some not.
From personal experience of two standard Griff 500’s, they made 296/7BHP. I was told both were good examples. They were indeed advertised new as making 320 or 340BHP at various times.
Experience of the 4L S6 engine, is that they make a genuine 350BHP and 330ft lbs of torque in the Cerbera. The Tuscan makes the same power but less torque (I’m told by the experts this is due to air box differences). The enhanced 4L S6 engine, fitted to the Sagaris and Tuscan S does make about 20BHP more, but nowhere near the 400+BHP advertised.
Add to this that many of cars supplied to magazines for road tests had blueprinted engines, resulting in headline grabbing performance figures, not subsequently borne out by production cars, it is easy to see why some owners from new asked for their money back. The term 'Blackpool Horse Power' was also lightheartedly invented for TVR power measurement.
Having said all of this, TVR’s still give great performance for the money, even if quoted figures were sometimes optimistic.
From personal experience of two standard Griff 500’s, they made 296/7BHP. I was told both were good examples. They were indeed advertised new as making 320 or 340BHP at various times.
Experience of the 4L S6 engine, is that they make a genuine 350BHP and 330ft lbs of torque in the Cerbera. The Tuscan makes the same power but less torque (I’m told by the experts this is due to air box differences). The enhanced 4L S6 engine, fitted to the Sagaris and Tuscan S does make about 20BHP more, but nowhere near the 400+BHP advertised.
Add to this that many of cars supplied to magazines for road tests had blueprinted engines, resulting in headline grabbing performance figures, not subsequently borne out by production cars, it is easy to see why some owners from new asked for their money back. The term 'Blackpool Horse Power' was also lightheartedly invented for TVR power measurement.
Having said all of this, TVR’s still give great performance for the money, even if quoted figures were sometimes optimistic.
Englishman said:
Yes, the most annoying aspect of TVR figures from the PW era (power, torque and performance) is that some were accurate, some not.
From personal experience of two standard Griff 500’s, they made 296/7BHP. I was told both were good examples. They were indeed advertised new as making 320 or 340BHP at various times.
Experience of the 4L S6 engine, is that they make a genuine 350BHP and 330ft lbs of torque in the Cerbera. The Tuscan makes the same power but less torque (I’m told by the experts this is due to air box differences). The enhanced 4L S6 engine, fitted to the Sagaris and Tuscan S does make about 20BHP more, but nowhere near the 400+BHP advertised.
Add to this that many of cars supplied to magazines for road tests had blueprinted engines, resulting in headline grabbing performance figures, not subsequently borne out by production cars, it is easy to see why some owners from new asked for their money back. The term 'Blackpool Horse Power' was also lightheartedly invented for TVR power measurement.
Having said all of this, TVR’s still give great performance for the money, even if quoted figures were sometimes optimistic.
Well you would know From personal experience of two standard Griff 500’s, they made 296/7BHP. I was told both were good examples. They were indeed advertised new as making 320 or 340BHP at various times.
Experience of the 4L S6 engine, is that they make a genuine 350BHP and 330ft lbs of torque in the Cerbera. The Tuscan makes the same power but less torque (I’m told by the experts this is due to air box differences). The enhanced 4L S6 engine, fitted to the Sagaris and Tuscan S does make about 20BHP more, but nowhere near the 400+BHP advertised.
Add to this that many of cars supplied to magazines for road tests had blueprinted engines, resulting in headline grabbing performance figures, not subsequently borne out by production cars, it is easy to see why some owners from new asked for their money back. The term 'Blackpool Horse Power' was also lightheartedly invented for TVR power measurement.
Having said all of this, TVR’s still give great performance for the money, even if quoted figures were sometimes optimistic.
(Englishman owns 4 TVR's)I've been on rolling road days with various S6 engined cars, some with the redesigns claiming huge figures. Best I've seen from a modified S6 is 384bhp, but I believe some are better now.
The thing is, on the road, all of them are quick, even the older ones
Mellow Yellow said:
Wasn't it Bristol that never quoted horse power figures because they "didn't want to compete wither other manufacturers lies"?
In the past, Rolls Royce simply stated, Power: Adequate. You can't get classier than that IMHO!
Things at RR are rather more vulgar heutzutage
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