New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
This is a discussion forum. I care little for the deposits, I'm not 'in' and if I was, I'd be out by now. As such, I'm doing what everyone else on here is doing and putting forward a point of view.
Personally, I think ultimately the deposits will be lost and there will be no car, but if anyone wants to think otherwise that's fine by me. Just because their opinion is at odds with mine doesn't make them right and me wrong, or vice versa.
Personally, I think ultimately the deposits will be lost and there will be no car, but if anyone wants to think otherwise that's fine by me. Just because their opinion is at odds with mine doesn't make them right and me wrong, or vice versa.
Tyre Smoke said:
This is a discussion forum. I care little for the deposits, I'm not 'in' and if I was, I'd be out by now. As such, I'm doing what everyone else on here is doing and putting forward a point of view.
Personally, I think ultimately the deposits will be lost and there will be no car, but if anyone wants to think otherwise that's fine by me. Just because their opinion is at odds with mine doesn't make them right and me wrong, or vice versa.
I quite agree and I enjoy and have always been enlightened by good healthy debate and sound discussions. Personally, I think ultimately the deposits will be lost and there will be no car, but if anyone wants to think otherwise that's fine by me. Just because their opinion is at odds with mine doesn't make them right and me wrong, or vice versa.
Good debates and discussions are underpinned by reasoned and researched argument, demonstrable justification and a good well rounded and considered position.
Those that lack even some of the above invariably end up petty and ill judged.
Obviously we allow Spag discretion as he loves a biscuit.
8nil said:
I quite agree and I enjoy and have always been enlightened by good healthy debate and sound discussions.
Good debates and discussions are underpinned by reasoned and researched argument, demonstrable justification and a good well rounded and considered position.
Those that lack even some of the above invariably end up petty and ill judged.
Your posts have glossed over the very detailed debate spanning the last two years, culminating in where we are now - this is looking increasingly like the end of the end, not the start of the beginning..... ....Good debates and discussions are underpinned by reasoned and researched argument, demonstrable justification and a good well rounded and considered position.
Those that lack even some of the above invariably end up petty and ill judged.
.... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
V6 Pushfit said:
Your posts have glossed over the very detailed debate spanning the last two years, culminating in where we are now - this is looking increasingly like the end of the end, not the start of the beginning..... ....
.... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
.... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
V6 Pushfit said:
Your posts have glossed over the very detailed debate spanning the last two years, culminating in where we are now - this is looking increasingly like the end of the end, not the start of the beginning..... ....
.... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
I would be happy to discuss what is even remotely patronising regards the statement I made about a reasoned argument. I would have said its matters of fact, rather than some sort of verbal jousting..... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
If petty muck throwing is the name of the game here, then by all means fill your cup until it brimmith ow'er.
As for glossing over the last two years; I don't deal in conjecture. I like to deal in facts. Alas, this thread has horribly lost sight of itself a long time ago. All I see now is supposition, assumptions and blind speculation.
The car is late. We all know this.
Communications form TVR are a subjective matter depending on whether it ruins one's day or otherwise. I have stated previously that the comms are not a big deal. Rather they issue something of substance instead of puffed up flim flam. When TVR have something to tell me, I am sure they will, they will.
However the nature of this thread and its unstoppable decent into the pit of detritus is a more damning indictment on those who seem fit to take part in that very British of sports; being the need to bludgeon any vestiges of enterprise and bravery to embark on a relatively risky and costly endeavour, that will put back on the roads a marque that still holds much love and affection on these here shores.
All I can do here is offer my support to TVR. I am a committed deposit holder. I sincerely hope they succeed and will look forward to getting my Griffith from the factory in Wales. If it fails, then I will at least be able to say that I took a punt with my eyes wide open to the risks, knowing that I did so from the heart.
8nil said:
V6 Pushfit said:
Your posts have glossed over the very detailed debate spanning the last two years, culminating in where we are now - this is looking increasingly like the end of the end, not the start of the beginning..... ....
.... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
I would be happy to discuss what is even remotely patronising regards the statement I made about a reasoned argument. I would have said its matters of fact, rather than some sort of verbal jousting..... quite apart from them also being grossly patronising.
If petty muck throwing is the name of the game here, then by all means fill your cup until it brimmith ow'er.
As for glossing over the last two years; I don't deal in conjecture. I like to deal in facts. Alas, this thread has horribly lost sight of itself a long time ago. All I see now is supposition, assumptions and blind speculation.
The car is late. We all know this.
Communications form TVR are a subjective matter depending on whether it ruins one's day or otherwise. I have stated previously that the comms are not a big deal. Rather they issue something of substance instead of puffed up flim flam. When TVR have something to tell me, I am sure they will, they will.
However the nature of this thread and its unstoppable decent into the pit of detritus is a more damning indictment on those who seem fit to take part in that very British of sports; being the need to bludgeon any vestiges of enterprise and bravery to embark on a relatively risky and costly endeavour, that will put back on the roads a marque that still holds much love and affection on these here shores.
All I can do here is offer my support to TVR. I am a committed deposit holder. I sincerely hope they succeed and will look forward to getting my Griffith from the factory in Wales. If it fails, then I will at least be able to say that I took a punt with my eyes wide open to the risks, knowing that I did so from the heart.
If so Les says can he have the coordinates please.
PGNSagaris said:
8nil said:
If it fails, then I will at least be able to say that I took a punt with my eyes wide open to the risks, knowing that I did so from the heart.
Can I interest sir in some magic beans? G'wan, do it from the heartBuying a 'new' TVR was never going to be ruled by the head..
They have my full respect quite frankly.
We've all been glued to this very thread for a long time now, if those 500 deposit holders hadn't parted with their hard earned, we'd have zero chance of a new breed of TVRs.
wanacoop said:
We've all been glued to this very thread for a long time now, if those 500 deposit holders hadn't parted with their hard earned, we'd have zero chance of a new breed of TVRs.
They're not TVR's though are they? They're not anything right now of course but they never have been or would be TVR's. So you're saying without the deposit holders cash the project wouldn't have been viable? I tend to agree but how is that a good thing? Surely it would have been far better if the project had been properly funded and managed to start with and had produced a workable business plan with realistic forecasts and expectations before parting people from their cash?
Without wishing to sound crass, any individual who can afford to drop a £5k (£2.5k) deposit two or three years ago, with nothing more than a 'promise' of a car, has clearly got quite a lot of disposable cash on hand. That hasn't come about by accident. Unless inherited, but let's ignore that for a moment. It would seem that deposit holders are people who have got to their position by being astute and pragmatic in business.
It surprises me that that same business acumen has not told them to ask for their deposits back. In which case, could I ask, why haven't you? From a business point of view, you must surely see this isn't looking healthy.
It surprises me that that same business acumen has not told them to ask for their deposits back. In which case, could I ask, why haven't you? From a business point of view, you must surely see this isn't looking healthy.
Tyre Smoke said:
Without wishing to sound crass, any individual who can afford to drop a £5k (£2.5k) deposit two or three years ago, with nothing more than a 'promise' of a car, has clearly got quite a lot of disposable cash on hand. That hasn't come about by accident. Unless inherited, but let's ignore that for a moment. It would seem that deposit holders are people who have got to their position by being astute and pragmatic in business.
It surprises me that that same business acumen has not told them to ask for their deposits back. In which case, could I ask, why haven't you? From a business point of view, you must surely see this isn't looking healthy.
The "rational investor" has been defuted a long time ago and individual utility functions apply. Decision to hang on is the result of perceived expected payoff in utility times probability of delivery minus cost times reciprocal probability. In other words: if the deposit kills you, don't put one down.It surprises me that that same business acumen has not told them to ask for their deposits back. In which case, could I ask, why haven't you? From a business point of view, you must surely see this isn't looking healthy.
That's what I said.
But £5k is still £5k. It's not £150 on a meal out for two. It's still a sizeable chunk to place on a promise of a car and nothing more.
I'm curious as to why the rational 'investor' still has his money 'in'.
Presumably enough people have had refunds now that once there is any concrete progress of a car actually making it to production, deposits could be reapplied? There was a notional cap on numbers of deposits, but surely if there is proof of production, then they'll be looking to take as many deposits as are happy to stump up?
But £5k is still £5k. It's not £150 on a meal out for two. It's still a sizeable chunk to place on a promise of a car and nothing more.
I'm curious as to why the rational 'investor' still has his money 'in'.
Presumably enough people have had refunds now that once there is any concrete progress of a car actually making it to production, deposits could be reapplied? There was a notional cap on numbers of deposits, but surely if there is proof of production, then they'll be looking to take as many deposits as are happy to stump up?
Tyre Smoke said:
That's what I said.
But £5k is still £5k. It's not £150 on a meal out for two. It's still a sizeable chunk to place on a promise of a car and nothing more.
I'm curious as to why the rational 'investor' still has his money 'in'.
Presumably enough people have had refunds now that once there is any concrete progress of a car actually making it to production, deposits could be reapplied? There was a notional cap on numbers of deposits, but surely if there is proof of production, then they'll be looking to take as many deposits as are happy to stump up?
It's a moving target. If everybody is pulling their deposits, only to reapply later when the car shows up it will lead to no car showing up. You could argue though, and more convincingly by the day, that no cars will show up no matter what. But £5k is still £5k. It's not £150 on a meal out for two. It's still a sizeable chunk to place on a promise of a car and nothing more.
I'm curious as to why the rational 'investor' still has his money 'in'.
Presumably enough people have had refunds now that once there is any concrete progress of a car actually making it to production, deposits could be reapplied? There was a notional cap on numbers of deposits, but surely if there is proof of production, then they'll be looking to take as many deposits as are happy to stump up?
I don't know if the guys succeed, i certainly hope so, but i do trust them.
But i grant you, that when the smoke clears, it will all have been crystal clear. Either way.
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