New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 2)

[Richales]

Final straw for me was the lack of communication, even to say things were delayed (again). One of the first 50 deposit-holders here... but no more, have just received my deposit back.

Took 6 weeks to receive it though - apparently it takes that long to schedule the refund into their next "operational payment"!!! When I heard that I was glad I'm out!

Good luck to those still sticking it out.

[rev-erend]

Are those that remain, deposit holders or creditors

Edited by rev-erend on Thursday 22 April 08:23

[Gameface]

Frankly anyone who still has a deposit in deserves everything they get.

Not looking to upset anyone but how many warnings do you need?

Its not far off being taken in by an email scam IMO. None of it adds up.

[anonymous-user]

I wouldn’t say it’s much like an email scam so much as flogging a dead horse.

[anonymous-user]

They will no doubt pop up later this year as though nothing has happened.

Oh

[Gazzab]

Gameface said:

Frankly anyone who still has a deposit in deserves everything they get.

Not looking to upset anyone but how many warnings do you need?

Its not far off being taken in by an email scam IMO. None of it adds up.

I don’t think it’s dishonest. I think it was well intentioned. Just badly executed, poor strategy etc and they continue with lots of bull re factory, orders and timescales each time there is any info. The deposits are not safe though and could easily be lost forever should they give up.

[N7GTX]

"The order book, representing one year of production, would’ve shrunk if there were further delays to the projected roll-out of our new car."

Looks like its shrinking anyway due to the delays and LACK OF COMMS.

[Gameface]

Gazzab said:

Gameface said:

Frankly anyone who still has a deposit in deserves everything they get.

Not looking to upset anyone but how many warnings do you need?

Its not far off being taken in by an email scam IMO. None of it adds up.

I don’t think it’s dishonest. I think it was well intentioned. Just badly executed, poor strategy etc and they continue with lots of bull re factory, orders and timescales each time there is any info. The deposits are not safe though and could easily be lost forever should they give up.

I think there is some dishonesty now (not at the beginning). Certainly a lack of clarity. They aren't being straight and upfront with people.

Referencing an email scam probably wasn't the best analogy but there are parallels. None of it adds up, sketchy on details and yet you still give them money.

Even if I adored the new Griffith and desperately wanted one, I'd have pulled the plug ages ago due to TVR's complete lack of respect and professionalism.

I'll have no sympathy for any deposit holders who get burned.

[Gazzab]

Gameface said:

Gazzab said:

Gameface said:

Frankly anyone who still has a deposit in deserves everything they get.

Not looking to upset anyone but how many warnings do you need?

Its not far off being taken in by an email scam IMO. None of it adds up.

I don’t think it’s dishonest. I think it was well intentioned. Just badly executed, poor strategy etc and they continue with lots of bull re factory, orders and timescales each time there is any info. The deposits are not safe though and could easily be lost forever should they give up.

I think there is some dishonesty now (not at the beginning). Certainly a lack of clarity. They aren't being straight and upfront with people.

Referencing an email scam probably wasn't the best analogy but there are parallels. None of it adds up, sketchy on details and yet you still give them money.

Even if I adored the new Griffith and desperately wanted one, I'd have pulled the plug ages ago due to TVR's complete lack of respect and professionalism.

I'll have no sympathy for any deposit holders who get burned.

Yeah I think they have overstepped the mark too often with exaggeration and misrepresentation

[saxon]

I presume what is holding this up most is an inability to raise finance on the commercial markets. The sums of money they were looking for looked fairly trivial (wasn't it £25m?) which is chicken feed in the grand scheme of things, especially when they had sold almost all the deposits on the new Griffith - which at 500x£90k per car was a potential income of £45m minus dealer commission.

Morgan and Lotus and even Gordon Murray design manage to make a production car without needing the 30x prototypes demanded here - I doubt even Toyota bothered making 30 prototypes when they launched the GT86 in 2012. Lets be realistic - they need a couple of mules and probably a couple for crash testing and that should have been enough.

It's also worth noting that people pumped billions into Tesla for years and they only just started making a profit and are now facing an onslaught of major motor manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon and a host of big chinese companies launching vehicles of comparable performance for half the cost so I would say their future is a long way from assured! In the early years Tesla was pretty much the only nice all electric vehicle and already that isn't actually the case - there are plenty of decent alternatives from the majors.

And then you've got the Chinese relaunching the MG brand and coming up with this which at a projected price of around £30k, TVR like performance and a range of 300 miles+ looks incredible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9jpG9iUnYI

Or this their even newer convertible prototype with projected 500 mile range and rather dubious front styling (looks great from the side though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSJ3O3_lMh8

Frankly either of those could tempt me as a daily to replace the GT86 but they wouldn't get me out of my 92 Griff!

I suppose what I am saying is that clearly these companies are getting investors to back them - often with huge sums of money so I'm a little perplexed why TVR seem to be having so much difficulty despite what was once a full order book?

The Griffith design was generally well received with a little moaning about the front, the engineering and use of a Ford Mustang V8 looked like being the best TVR have ever made. The performance per £ was as usual shattering to the competition and they had a top flight management and design team from heavyweights such as ex directors of Rolls Royce and people who had been involved in developing the McLaren F1 as well as Aston Martin racing.

Where and how did it all go so wrong?

Saxon

[Gazzab]

It was not generally well received. The business case / model / financials / ethos / strategy / capability / credibility clearly don’t work.

[Gazzab]

And seriously - that MG doesn’t look incredible. It looks terrible.

[baconsarney]

baconsarney said:

Back on topic, anyone interested in how my chillis are doing?

[saaby93]

Gazzab said:

And seriously - that MG doesn’t look incredible. It looks terrible.

Isnt the other one more in TVR fold

[swisstoni]

N7GTX said:

"The order book, representing one year of production, would’ve shrunk if there were further delays to the projected roll-out of our new car."

Looks like its shrinking anyway due to the delays and LACK OF COMMS.

Dear N7GTX,

Thank you for your continued , albeit bizarrely obsessive, interest in TVR.

As you well know, we are looking for finance to move forward and are currently putting a brave face on in an effort to attract investors.

At the moment we do not think that giving you a running commentary on the ins and outs of our attempts to do this would help further that objective.

If anything good happens you’ll be the first to know.

All the best,
TVR

[rev-erend]

swisstoni said:

N7GTX said:

"The order book, representing one year of production, would’ve shrunk if there were further delays to the projected roll-out of our new car."

Looks like its shrinking anyway due to the delays and LACK OF COMMS.

Dear N7GTX,

Thank you for your continued , albeit bizarrely obsessive, interest in TVR.

As you well know, we are looking for finance to move forward and are currently putting a brave face on in an effort to attract investors.

At the moment we do not think that giving you a running commentary on the ins and outs of our attempts to do this would help further that objective.

If anything good happens you’ll be the first to know.

All the best,
TVR

[anonymous-user]

saxon said:

Where and how did it all go so wrong?

Saxon

We are basically talking about a lack of investors, causing a lack of funding. So "where it all went wrong" is pretty simple, the investment was unattractive, ie not enough investors thought the business case was solid enough, and the profit potential good enough to put their money where their mouth is!


IMO, the fundamental problem was newCO trying to be a Mclaren, ie to come in and be the BEST , to sell lots of cars, rather than just admit they were furnishing a niche product, to a low volume audience, and realistically, the potential turnover and profitability of that segment made it impossible to do that.

Had they had a sensible, pragmatic plan, build a few cars, by hand, with a few employees in a small industrial unit, then they coudl have made something of it, a bit like Zenos (and probably also going bust after a couple of years once they have satisfied their niche "i want to be different" market)

[anonymous-user]

Max_Torque said:

We are basically talking about a lack of investors, causing a lack of funding. So "where it all went wrong" is pretty simple, the investment was unattractive, ie not enough investors thought the business case was solid enough, and the profit potential good enough to put their money where their mouth is!


IMO, the fundamental problem was newCO trying to be a Mclaren, ie to come in and be the BEST , to sell lots of cars, rather than just admit they were furnishing a niche product, to a low volume audience, and realistically, the potential turnover and profitability of that segment made it impossible to do that.

Had they had a sensible, pragmatic plan, build a few cars, by hand, with a few employees in a small industrial unit, then they coudl have made something of it, a bit like Zenos (and probably also going bust after a couple of years once they have satisfied their niche "i want to be different" market)

...imo it’s as much to do with smoke & mirrors, and alienating their ardent support base from lack of comms.

[Monkeylegend]

baconsarney said:

baconsarney said:

Back on topic, anyone interested in how my chillis are doing?

I am















We don't want to hurt BS's feelings guys. He has put a lot of time and effort in and been more productive than TVR.

[rev-erend]

Monkeylegend said:

baconsarney said:

baconsarney said:

Back on topic, anyone interested in how my chillis are doing?

I am

We don't want to hurt BS's feelings guys. He has put a lot of time and effort in and been more productive than TVR.

At least he gives us regular progress updates.