Clutch smell second opinion ?
Discussion
Hey all it’s one of the posts where I suspect I know where it’s going but always worth asking for second opinions !
On the odd occasion when pulling into the odd show or car park where you may have to be on/off the clutch pedal a few times inching forwards I’ve caught the odd “whiff” of what smells like the clutch !
I’ve checked the fluid level (it’s full) and checked there and in footwell and under car and can’t see any leaking fluid
The clutch was changed around 20K ago which was only 2 years ago as this Chim got used and is currently on 120K (1996) the original was in for 100K !
So am I smelling the clutch plate ? It drives spot on and changes gear fine and can hard pull in any gear with no slip
On the odd occasion when pulling into the odd show or car park where you may have to be on/off the clutch pedal a few times inching forwards I’ve caught the odd “whiff” of what smells like the clutch !
I’ve checked the fluid level (it’s full) and checked there and in footwell and under car and can’t see any leaking fluid
The clutch was changed around 20K ago which was only 2 years ago as this Chim got used and is currently on 120K (1996) the original was in for 100K !
So am I smelling the clutch plate ? It drives spot on and changes gear fine and can hard pull in any gear with no slip
I had this or similar and indeed smelt the odd whiff of clutch usually when riding it say in a busy car park,,
Turned out to be a failed thrust bearing which literally scraped the fingers away.
Remove inspection hatch and with torch check the clutch fingers will confirm or not.
I would have complained but I’d been drag racing not long before so rather abused.
Set 31st fastest Tvr time so who cares
Turned out to be a failed thrust bearing which literally scraped the fingers away.
Remove inspection hatch and with torch check the clutch fingers will confirm or not.
I would have complained but I’d been drag racing not long before so rather abused.
Set 31st fastest Tvr time so who cares
Read my comments posted here on Wednesday 20th February:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
ChimpOnGas said:
Read my comments posted here on Wednesday 20th February:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
Indeed !https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
Those of us who came up through the dealer network back in the day know about things like this, but there's not many left now who have that "qualification" to their name and therefore are maybe unaware of these issues.
spitfire4v8 said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Read my comments posted here on Wednesday 20th February:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
Indeed !https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Release bearing carrier clearance is something that needs checking carefully!
Those of us who came up through the dealer network back in the day know about things like this, but there's not many left now who have that "qualification" to their name and therefore are maybe unaware of these issues.
Mat Smith went straight to the issue where many before him (including myself) had missed it, it's one of those things thats obvious when you know about it but easy to look right through if you don't.
Mat Smith learnt his TVRs at the Brundle TVR dealership, he said the release bearing clearance issue was a known problem and still sees it on quite a few Chimaeras and Griffiths that come through his door to this day.
Mat has huge experience with TVRs and has accumulated a wealth of knowledge on the marque, the kind of knowledge only years working specialising on one car manufacturer's products can give.
Theres an old saying....... "There's no substitute for experience".
This experience is what you are paying for when you recruit the services of a true specialist, and its nearly always cheaper because a true specialist knows what to look for and has worked all the tricks and techniques to get the job done faster and better.
Had I gone to Mat Smith in the first place when my 30,000 mile original clutch started slipping I would have saved myself years of clutch missery, he would have sorted my release bearing carrier clearance issue on his lathe and fitted the excellent AP clutch kit as he did for me a year or so ago.
A sign over your door that says TVR Specialist and a fancy website does not make you a true TVR Specialist, because the truth is you only become a real specialist after years and years of experience!
Lessons learned
Christ you learn something new on this site everyday !
Yeah the clutch is heavy very heavy (have a new slave that came with car with the bigger bore that I was told would help with this it’s aTVR parts one ) and it takes some clutch control to pull off and at very low speed inching forward in traffic it can judder ! It’s on or off and does not like staying in the biting area
Yeah the clutch is heavy very heavy (have a new slave that came with car with the bigger bore that I was told would help with this it’s aTVR parts one ) and it takes some clutch control to pull off and at very low speed inching forward in traffic it can judder ! It’s on or off and does not like staying in the biting area
Steve, since Mat Smith machined down my release bearing carrier on his lathe and he fitted the 5.0 litre AP clutch kit to my late 1996 4.0 litre Chimaera the car has been transformed.
For years I suffered baulky gear selection and nasty clutch take up, I also had a 5th gear synchro ring fail on me which when removed was blackened. The Helix clutch that replaced my 30,000 mile original was heavy which only made the clutch action and take up even nastier, the Land Rover clutch from Lloyd Specialists Developments was lighter but still didn't feel right to me and failed in short order because they too failed to notice the clearance issue.
Amazingly it seems my bearing carrier clearance issue was something that came with the car from new, and for those who learned their trade working in the TVR dealer network it was a known issue. At one time during Chimaera production the length of the bearing carrier used was incompatible with the cover plate, bearing depth, and or flywheel thickness (there are two RV8 flywheel depths), the mix and match set of parts almost certainly bought in from Land Rover and used by TVR were clearly poorly chosen
Who would have thought TVR would get something like this so wrong, but they did so do check your release bearing clearance carefully and if necessary machine down your bearing carrier so there is free play like I was taught to set up a cable clutch or your clutch will drag, especially when the car gets hot and those incompatible clutch parts grow though heat expansion.
Then fit a proper AP clutch which for me has proved itself to be night and day better than my original, the heavy Helix, and the very short lived Land Rover clutch from Lloyd Specialists Developments.
If like me you do indeed have the clearance issue and you sort it then fit a proper AP clutch you will not believe the difference, my Chimaera is now so much nicer to drive since this work its like a different car. Parking and manoeuvring at low speed is now a delight where before it required much concentration and skill, clutch take up and gear selection is buttery smooth and unlike all my other clutches it remains consistently smooth no matter if the car is cold or properly hot.
Hope this helps?
Dave.
For years I suffered baulky gear selection and nasty clutch take up, I also had a 5th gear synchro ring fail on me which when removed was blackened. The Helix clutch that replaced my 30,000 mile original was heavy which only made the clutch action and take up even nastier, the Land Rover clutch from Lloyd Specialists Developments was lighter but still didn't feel right to me and failed in short order because they too failed to notice the clearance issue.
Amazingly it seems my bearing carrier clearance issue was something that came with the car from new, and for those who learned their trade working in the TVR dealer network it was a known issue. At one time during Chimaera production the length of the bearing carrier used was incompatible with the cover plate, bearing depth, and or flywheel thickness (there are two RV8 flywheel depths), the mix and match set of parts almost certainly bought in from Land Rover and used by TVR were clearly poorly chosen
Who would have thought TVR would get something like this so wrong, but they did so do check your release bearing clearance carefully and if necessary machine down your bearing carrier so there is free play like I was taught to set up a cable clutch or your clutch will drag, especially when the car gets hot and those incompatible clutch parts grow though heat expansion.
Then fit a proper AP clutch which for me has proved itself to be night and day better than my original, the heavy Helix, and the very short lived Land Rover clutch from Lloyd Specialists Developments.
If like me you do indeed have the clearance issue and you sort it then fit a proper AP clutch you will not believe the difference, my Chimaera is now so much nicer to drive since this work its like a different car. Parking and manoeuvring at low speed is now a delight where before it required much concentration and skill, clutch take up and gear selection is buttery smooth and unlike all my other clutches it remains consistently smooth no matter if the car is cold or properly hot.
Hope this helps?
Dave.
Steve_D said:
Dave, When Matt turned the bearing sleeve down did he remove material from the back of the sleeve or the front? Also do you know what is considered a 'safe' clearance?
Cheers
Steve
No idea mate, when someone shows more experience than me and what they're saying makes sense I just tend to show respect and let them get on with it.Cheers
Steve
I paid for his knowledge and left a happy customer, after wasting money with the pretenders using Mat proved to be worth every penny, indeed had I gone to Mat when my original TVR clutch failed at 30,000 miles he would have saved me an absolute fortune.
A costly lesson I paid dearly for, and one others can easily avoid simply by using Mat Smith.
Credit where credit is due
Great advice thanks !! Interestingly I’ve done 200 miles in her today in the heat through towns villages lots of trying to park somewhere etc and have “not” smelt the possible ? Clutch smell ?
But it’s advice like this that puts you on the right path when the time comes to spend money on bigger ticket items and I too would be proper pissed off it spent that kind of money only to have it fail
But it’s advice like this that puts you on the right path when the time comes to spend money on bigger ticket items and I too would be proper pissed off it spent that kind of money only to have it fail
While having my exhaust sorted today had a look into clutch inspection hole and firstly the clutch fingers looked ok and angled correctly , also there was a good 5-7mm of clearance on the hub to bearing which also felt smooth when handled , also the clutch arm is re-enforced with welded plate !
But around the hole on clutch fingers in a circle was orange dust ?
Any thoughts ? Clutch still works as it should no slipping but.....on a big hill into car park Monday stationary waiting for cars to park just biting the clutch several times caught a whiff of clutch smell again !
Someone I know had one of these 4.5 and he said his did it too and he had it for 4 years same clutch so was suggesting I don’t worry about it too much unless it starts to slip ?
But around the hole on clutch fingers in a circle was orange dust ?
Any thoughts ? Clutch still works as it should no slipping but.....on a big hill into car park Monday stationary waiting for cars to park just biting the clutch several times caught a whiff of clutch smell again !
Someone I know had one of these 4.5 and he said his did it too and he had it for 4 years same clutch so was suggesting I don’t worry about it too much unless it starts to slip ?
TVRSJW said:
.....But around the hole on clutch fingers in a circle was orange dust ?..........
In this type release bearing the outer part of the bearing just sits on the fingers and rotates with the clutch. The fingers rub on it as the clutch goes in and out but there is very little rotation relative to the fingers.So as a result you are just seeing rust from 2 steel components rubbing against each other.
Not a problem.
Steve
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