New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
And that was my point, whatever the numbers are you can’t Rev an engine that high and hard without having a very well built engine. That Griffith sounded incredibly well balanced to me.
Now though I’m not that interested in absolute dyno figures.
Using the 20% road train loss that makes my 450 bog standard engine re build by Dom possess 305 bhp…… I’ll take that. That’s mapped catted!
So I removed the cat,
Went to the drag strip and managed a very respectable 12.60 I feel it’s about 315bhp and nearly 350 ft of torque with clives de cat Y
Putting that up against other very good 1/4 mile TVR Times tells you it’s about right.
Other people with recorded times possessing anything from 320-359 bhp do similar times and faster by a second or more for highly tuned examples. Aka Peters 5.5 Macs 4.6 Turbo Derek’s various high powered record setting examples and many others I’m proud to have met
There is a direct correlation between bhp and torque figures and drag strip time differences given fairly even drivers in a Tvr because they all broadly weigh the same.
It’s the power and delivery that makes the difference.
So when a whole bunch of us Tvr boys raced at Shakey for two days the times did correlate with our dyno figures from various well known dyno operators and tuners.
So people call out all sorts of things yet in the real world of hardcore racing as that was, none of us were messing about, it was very competitive throughout the field, when you looked at the times as you’d expect the results bore out who had the most power by our known dyno results.
Give or take 5 or 10 hp hear or there none of them seem that far out.
Now though I’m not that interested in absolute dyno figures.
Using the 20% road train loss that makes my 450 bog standard engine re build by Dom possess 305 bhp…… I’ll take that. That’s mapped catted!
So I removed the cat,
Went to the drag strip and managed a very respectable 12.60 I feel it’s about 315bhp and nearly 350 ft of torque with clives de cat Y
Putting that up against other very good 1/4 mile TVR Times tells you it’s about right.
Other people with recorded times possessing anything from 320-359 bhp do similar times and faster by a second or more for highly tuned examples. Aka Peters 5.5 Macs 4.6 Turbo Derek’s various high powered record setting examples and many others I’m proud to have met
There is a direct correlation between bhp and torque figures and drag strip time differences given fairly even drivers in a Tvr because they all broadly weigh the same.
It’s the power and delivery that makes the difference.
So when a whole bunch of us Tvr boys raced at Shakey for two days the times did correlate with our dyno figures from various well known dyno operators and tuners.
So people call out all sorts of things yet in the real world of hardcore racing as that was, none of us were messing about, it was very competitive throughout the field, when you looked at the times as you’d expect the results bore out who had the most power by our known dyno results.
Give or take 5 or 10 hp hear or there none of them seem that far out.
Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 4th June 21:53
Don1 said:
QBee said:
Unlike all other rolling roads, Dom quotes the BHP at the wheels, ie the only true number you get from a rolling road.
But TVR owners like to brag about big numbers, so others use the mathematically coerrected BHP at the flywheel number, which is 15 to 20% higher than the wheel BHP.
Hence when someone shows us their graph for a well modified Griff 500 naturally aspirated and it shows 360 bhp, that would be somewhere in the region of 305 bhp on Dom's rolling road.
Cutting to the chase, the Facebook post by Dom in the TVR group, of a supercharged grey N reg Griff showing 478 wheel BHP would read about 580 bhp at the flywheel on anyone else's rolling road.
Presumably a lot of development has gone on with that car, as it wouldn't survive that level of power on a standard RV8 engine and TVR chassis. It would need forged engine internals, probably a stonger power train and possibly a change of gearbox too. Then you would need the chassis strengthening as well.
Anyone going "wow, I must get a supercharger" needs to bear in mind that the supercharger part of the equation is just the first 20% of the total cost. I know a TVR owner who supercharged his Chimaera, got over 470 bhp at the flywheel, but not before he had had to rebuild the engine and change the gearbox - his original engine destroyed itself.
Major power increases from an RV8 engine are possible, but while a bit cheaper, are rather similar in cost profile to swapping to an LS3 engine. The LS3 engine itself, when I looked into it about 5 years ago, was less than £5,000. I got a quote from Sportmotive for the all the neccesary bits, and it was £18,000, installation labour was just £3,000 on top.
Then whatever you do, don't look at the modified Speed Six wiki that shows a car a few days apart showing 1bhp difference between 'at the wheels' and not.... Definitely wouldn't advise that.But TVR owners like to brag about big numbers, so others use the mathematically coerrected BHP at the flywheel number, which is 15 to 20% higher than the wheel BHP.
Hence when someone shows us their graph for a well modified Griff 500 naturally aspirated and it shows 360 bhp, that would be somewhere in the region of 305 bhp on Dom's rolling road.
Cutting to the chase, the Facebook post by Dom in the TVR group, of a supercharged grey N reg Griff showing 478 wheel BHP would read about 580 bhp at the flywheel on anyone else's rolling road.
Presumably a lot of development has gone on with that car, as it wouldn't survive that level of power on a standard RV8 engine and TVR chassis. It would need forged engine internals, probably a stonger power train and possibly a change of gearbox too. Then you would need the chassis strengthening as well.
Anyone going "wow, I must get a supercharger" needs to bear in mind that the supercharger part of the equation is just the first 20% of the total cost. I know a TVR owner who supercharged his Chimaera, got over 470 bhp at the flywheel, but not before he had had to rebuild the engine and change the gearbox - his original engine destroyed itself.
Major power increases from an RV8 engine are possible, but while a bit cheaper, are rather similar in cost profile to swapping to an LS3 engine. The LS3 engine itself, when I looked into it about 5 years ago, was less than £5,000. I got a quote from Sportmotive for the all the neccesary bits, and it was £18,000, installation labour was just £3,000 on top.
Since then I have done more work and the latest mapping session at Powers gave a reading of 435RWBHP so i now have to get it to SRR for another run there.
Does anyone fancy a Saturday Morning trip to SRR for a shoot out session?
Why the willy waving competition? It used to produce X BHP on A's rolling road and Y BHP on B's rolling road, and now it's even more on A's, so I want to wave my willy even more......
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
baconsarney said:
glow worm said:
baconsarney said:
Strawberries… not what you think they are….
Mine are still green 
Botanically speaking a strawberry isn’t a fruit
LucyP said:
Why the willy waving competition? It used to produce X BHP on A's rolling road and Y BHP on B's rolling road, and now it's even more on A's, so I want to wave my willy even more......
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
Probably because no one but no one is interested in ‘how much bhp my car has’ except the owner. How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
LucyP said:
Why the willy waving competition? It used to produce X BHP on A's rolling road and Y BHP on B's rolling road, and now it's even more on A's, so I want to wave my willy even more......
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
I recall watching a shoot out session at Raceproved and a S6 owner was on the phone to his engine builder shouting at him as the expensive 4.3 rebuild was coming in much lower than sold. I assume he was ecstatic with the engine right up until that moment. How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
Gazzab said:
I recall watching a shoot out session at Raceproved and a S6 owner was on the phone to his engine builder shouting at him as the expensive 4.3 rebuild was coming in much lower than sold. I assume he was ecstatic with the engine right up until that moment.
I was there that day so just for the hell of it, I’m going to say it was a reflex charcoal Sag showing around 373bhp??
Rolling roads are very useful if tuning and upgrading your engine.
During my ownership of my 5.5 chim I used SRR for a benchmark. Did loads of upgrades and did multiple runs over the years. Not just useful for bhp figures but for torque figures and where those changes are happening.
For instance, the final mod was to fit the big bore stainless ACT manifolds. This raised the BHP by about 26 to 400 bhp but more importantly raised the peak bhp by 5-600 RPM . On the flip side, torque was reduced by about 10 ft lb and again moved the torque curve further up to about 450 ft lb.
Not bad when you consider the figures were about 320 bhp and 360 ft lb of torque when I bought the car.
During my ownership of my 5.5 chim I used SRR for a benchmark. Did loads of upgrades and did multiple runs over the years. Not just useful for bhp figures but for torque figures and where those changes are happening.
For instance, the final mod was to fit the big bore stainless ACT manifolds. This raised the BHP by about 26 to 400 bhp but more importantly raised the peak bhp by 5-600 RPM . On the flip side, torque was reduced by about 10 ft lb and again moved the torque curve further up to about 450 ft lb.
Not bad when you consider the figures were about 320 bhp and 360 ft lb of torque when I bought the car.
LucyP said:
Why the willy waving competition? It used to produce X BHP on A's rolling road and Y BHP on B's rolling road, and now it's even more on A's, so I want to wave my willy even more......
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
I think the point is using a few rolling roads is the best way to get a mean average of the power your car posses.How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
Dyno results are only relevant if you use the same dyno and all cars got tested on the same day.
Racing finds out which ones are actually fast.
People who want more power can usually handle it.
They are then often sensible enough to use that power appropriately and often at great expense take to enclosed circuits to test that power.
Power is not dangerous, but the use of it is. Tvr can be mapped to be as precise as any mapping system minus the traction control and can then be driven with intricate perfection balancing on the edge of traction dancing with the throttle to increase or decrease slip angle…. It’s driving heaven even if it is a bit slower than most modern performance cars.
That’s why we love them.
Dyno results are like racing without moving and indeed allows the owner to asses his mods before moving on to a test facility to actually find out if it’s faster.
The real point of dyno work must be to get the perfect fuel air ratio at all revs until you have a finely tuned engine that then runs just as smooth on sedate throttle settings.
That makes driving slow which is what we do 90% of the time also very enjoyable. To have an eager better faster engine is always going to add to the appeal no?
The only thing I look for on printouts are the curves and how smooth they are.
LucyP said:
Why the willy waving competition? It used to produce X BHP on A's rolling road and Y BHP on B's rolling road, and now it's even more on A's, so I want to wave my willy even more......
How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
As one who knows the person you are criticising, I can see you know absolutely nothing about him or his car.How does it put that power down on the road in your near 30 year old car RWD car with no traction control, ESP, ABS etc.? And it's probably on old tyres/Chinese tyres/tyres designed for a Nissan Qashqai. It probably gets off the line, especially in the wet, more slowly than a Dacia.
Who cares what BHP it produces, except when you wrap it round a tree?
You have done this before to friends of mine.
Please keep your posts to things about which you actually know something.
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