New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Lefty said:
I wonder if the brand will ever become resurrectable? A low volume, simple sports car manufacturer akin to Morgan, Caterham or Ariel.
Will it ever be possible to buy the name for a reasonable sum?
Would anyone ever buy a new TVR in the future given this fiasco or have the current owners completely f
ked all goodwill the name once had?
It s all so sad to see a marque fail like this.
I think the only viable option would be for someone to start building TVR's as they used to be built (maybe with refreshed styling) under a different/new brand name - nothing of TVR of old apart from the name is protected. Will it ever be possible to buy the name for a reasonable sum?
Would anyone ever buy a new TVR in the future given this fiasco or have the current owners completely f
ked all goodwill the name once had? It s all so sad to see a marque fail like this.
Once that's done maybe they could get hold of the brand, but theres certainly not a lot of value in paying for it without the product/expertise to back it up.
Zeb74 said:
Gordon Murray still has his deposit.
If he had encountered insincere people during the design and construction of the prototype, would it have beem so?
I'm also sad for this, I put down a deposit and a few years after, despite the fact that I was in position of buying the car, I sold the slot to someone else.
Were they lacking knowledge? Finance? Luck? Probably a bit of all 3.
I don't have the feeling that they were trying to fool people, they probably didn't understand all the implications.
Endless confidence. Believable. Well meaning initially. But swept up in the 'we've got a car company' prestige rather than execution. If he had encountered insincere people during the design and construction of the prototype, would it have beem so?
I'm also sad for this, I put down a deposit and a few years after, despite the fact that I was in position of buying the car, I sold the slot to someone else.
Were they lacking knowledge? Finance? Luck? Probably a bit of all 3.
I don't have the feeling that they were trying to fool people, they probably didn't understand all the implications.
The only thing they lacked was knowledge, plenty of finance was there. Yes the EV thing came (and has started to go)...but that's only an issue because of their ambitions.
They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
GM having his deposit in is a bit mute given that they paid him (likely) 10's of millions for the 1 car.
Raising enough finance to manufacture the cars that we know as TVRs would seem to me to be rather tricky any time soon.
When Les and his team started out on this venture, the Russian had not long stopped making TVRs and petrol engined performance cars were still very much what the motoring enthusiast wanted to buy. EVs were very much in their infancy, and hybrids had only recently gained some momentum.
Move on about 10-15 years and, in the UK at least, so much has changed.
Government policy around car production has very much moved away from petrol/diesel and headed in the direction of electric. We don't actually make such vehicles in the UK (as far as I am aware), all western European manufacturers appear unable actually to build these electric vehicles for the kind of money the public want to spend on a car, especially a weekend toy. So unles the pragmatic Chinese/Koreans want to fill the gap, it just isn't going to happen.
As long as government policy continues down this environmental rabbit hole, I struggle to see why any investors are going to put their money into the kind of car TVR owners would want to buy. Let's face it, investors are not generally car enthusiasts until mit comes to spending their bonuses on something tasty.
That's not to say I am against electric vehicles, I am just don't feel currently that I am likely to buy one in my lifetime. But I am 72, and for a long time now have not bought a car less than 8 years old. Who knows? Things move so fast these days.
5 years ago I never shopped on Amazon. Now it's my first port of call for anything other than cars, food and clothes. Fast forward 5 years and I might be wondering how I managed not to buy an electric vehicle sooner. But I still don't expect to see the good news that TVR are commencing manufacture in 2030.
Of course, if you have a TVR already in your garage, and £50k to spare, what are you waiting for?
https://www.sportmotive.com/tvr-development/#ultim...
When Les and his team started out on this venture, the Russian had not long stopped making TVRs and petrol engined performance cars were still very much what the motoring enthusiast wanted to buy. EVs were very much in their infancy, and hybrids had only recently gained some momentum.
Move on about 10-15 years and, in the UK at least, so much has changed.
Government policy around car production has very much moved away from petrol/diesel and headed in the direction of electric. We don't actually make such vehicles in the UK (as far as I am aware), all western European manufacturers appear unable actually to build these electric vehicles for the kind of money the public want to spend on a car, especially a weekend toy. So unles the pragmatic Chinese/Koreans want to fill the gap, it just isn't going to happen.
As long as government policy continues down this environmental rabbit hole, I struggle to see why any investors are going to put their money into the kind of car TVR owners would want to buy. Let's face it, investors are not generally car enthusiasts until mit comes to spending their bonuses on something tasty.
That's not to say I am against electric vehicles, I am just don't feel currently that I am likely to buy one in my lifetime. But I am 72, and for a long time now have not bought a car less than 8 years old. Who knows? Things move so fast these days.
5 years ago I never shopped on Amazon. Now it's my first port of call for anything other than cars, food and clothes. Fast forward 5 years and I might be wondering how I managed not to buy an electric vehicle sooner. But I still don't expect to see the good news that TVR are commencing manufacture in 2030.
Of course, if you have a TVR already in your garage, and £50k to spare, what are you waiting for?
https://www.sportmotive.com/tvr-development/#ultim...
Edited by QBee on Thursday 23 October 11:21
QBee said:
Raising enough finance to manufacture the cars that we know as TVRs would seem to me to be rather tricky any time soon.
When Les and his team started out on this venture, the Russian had not long stopped making TVRs and petrol engined performance cars were still very much what the motoring enthusiast wanted to buy. EVs were very much in their infancy, and hybrids had only recently gained some momentum.
Move on about 10-15 years and, in the UK at least, so much has changed.
Government policy around car production has very much moved away from petrol/diesel and headed in the direction of electric. We don't actually make such vehicles in the UK (as far as I am aware), all western European manufacturers appear unable actually to build these electric vehicles for the kind of money the public want to spend on a car, especially a weekend toy. So unles the pragmatic Chinese/Koreans want to fill the gap, it just isn't going to happen.
As long as government policy continues down this environmental rabbit hole, I struggle to see why any investors are going to put their money into the kind of car TVR owners would want to buy. Let's face it, investors are not generally car enthusiasts until mit comes to spending their bonuses on something tasty.
That's not to say I am against electric vehicles, I am just don't feel currently that I am likely to buy one in my lifetime. But I am 72, and for a long time now have not bought a car less than 8 years old. Who knows? Things move so fast these days.
5 years ago I never shopped on Amazon. Now it's my first port of call for anything other than cars, food and clothes. Fast forward 5 years and I might be wondering how I managed not to buy an electric vehicle sooner. But I still don't expect to see the good news that TVR are commencing manufacture in 2030.
Of course, if you have a TVR already in your garage, and £50k to spare, what are you waiting for?
https://www.sportmotive.com/tvr-development/#ultim...
When Les and his team started out on this venture, the Russian had not long stopped making TVRs and petrol engined performance cars were still very much what the motoring enthusiast wanted to buy. EVs were very much in their infancy, and hybrids had only recently gained some momentum.
Move on about 10-15 years and, in the UK at least, so much has changed.
Government policy around car production has very much moved away from petrol/diesel and headed in the direction of electric. We don't actually make such vehicles in the UK (as far as I am aware), all western European manufacturers appear unable actually to build these electric vehicles for the kind of money the public want to spend on a car, especially a weekend toy. So unles the pragmatic Chinese/Koreans want to fill the gap, it just isn't going to happen.
As long as government policy continues down this environmental rabbit hole, I struggle to see why any investors are going to put their money into the kind of car TVR owners would want to buy. Let's face it, investors are not generally car enthusiasts until mit comes to spending their bonuses on something tasty.
That's not to say I am against electric vehicles, I am just don't feel currently that I am likely to buy one in my lifetime. But I am 72, and for a long time now have not bought a car less than 8 years old. Who knows? Things move so fast these days.
5 years ago I never shopped on Amazon. Now it's my first port of call for anything other than cars, food and clothes. Fast forward 5 years and I might be wondering how I managed not to buy an electric vehicle sooner. But I still don't expect to see the good news that TVR are commencing manufacture in 2030.
Of course, if you have a TVR already in your garage, and £50k to spare, what are you waiting for?
https://www.sportmotive.com/tvr-development/#ultim...
Edited by QBee on Thursday 23 October 11:21
agree with a lot and then I hear something in this nice video that TVR was at some point 1 of 3 biggest sports car producers in the world?
ow, no juwtube, its here found it via via de.
some historie, its in English >
https://tvr-cars.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/TVR...
ow, no juwtube, its here found it via via de.
some historie, its in English >
https://tvr-cars.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/TVR...
sixor8 said:
Personally, QBee, I rarely find anything on Amazon that isn't already the same price, or even beaten on eBay. Unless you can get free delivery, which means paying for Amazon Plus, which negates the point, for me. Bought M5 screws, and motorcycle parts on eBay most recently. 
I agree EBay for car parts, hardware etc. I use Amazon for everything else, shoppig around for those who have added on anamount for Prime.Yes, I did sign up for Prime a while back - more often than not whatever we are buying is wanted as quickly as possibly, especially where my best beloved is involved. The ability of return everything on Amazon Prime can also be useful from time to time. It takes the guesswork out of buying things where you would otherwise be browsing in high steet shops.
Don1 said:
My 2p - name will be sold to a Chinese firm like some bike firms have.
TVR has a chance to still be a concern, just not in the way we remember as a market disrupter.
I still think either GINETTA or PRODRIVE would be the best UK contenders to pick up the TVR Brand, and they COULD make it a success .TVR has a chance to still be a concern, just not in the way we remember as a market disrupter.
Yes me too but it might be difficult.
The controlling interest in TVR Automotive is Ensorcia Automotive which is registered in the Cayman Islands. In reality it is just the CEO, Daniel Layton, who is also a TVR director having handed over several million to keep TVR alive.
The company was valued at £15m when the Welsh Govt got involved 10 years ago,way back in the mists of time. The directors and others have all invested a lot of their money. The trouble is, they will all want their share back and I cannot see that ever happening.
There are the name and rights etc plus the one 8 year old car. How much is all that worth today?
The controlling interest in TVR Automotive is Ensorcia Automotive which is registered in the Cayman Islands. In reality it is just the CEO, Daniel Layton, who is also a TVR director having handed over several million to keep TVR alive.
The company was valued at £15m when the Welsh Govt got involved 10 years ago,way back in the mists of time. The directors and others have all invested a lot of their money. The trouble is, they will all want their share back and I cannot see that ever happening.
There are the name and rights etc plus the one 8 year old car. How much is all that worth today?
Viper201 said:
Yes me too but it might be difficult.
The controlling interest in TVR Automotive is Ensorcia Automotive which is registered in the Cayman Islands. In reality it is just the CEO, Daniel Layton, who is also a TVR director having handed over several million to keep TVR alive.
The company was valued at £15m when the Welsh Govt got involved 10 years ago,way back in the mists of time. The directors and others have all invested a lot of their money. The trouble is, they will all want their share back and I cannot see that ever happening.
There are the name and rights etc plus the one 8 year old car. How much is all that worth today?
The £15m was really for customer goodwill (significant 10 years ago) and the rights to use the name (significant as it was still very much in public memory)The controlling interest in TVR Automotive is Ensorcia Automotive which is registered in the Cayman Islands. In reality it is just the CEO, Daniel Layton, who is also a TVR director having handed over several million to keep TVR alive.
The company was valued at £15m when the Welsh Govt got involved 10 years ago,way back in the mists of time. The directors and others have all invested a lot of their money. The trouble is, they will all want their share back and I cannot see that ever happening.
There are the name and rights etc plus the one 8 year old car. How much is all that worth today?
Now significant goodwill is now lost/retired (lets face it) and the name is nowhere near as well known/attached to this farce. So worth much less than £15m
It also has debts. And any of TVRs model range can be produced by anyone with no legal issue (Design rights no longer apply) - they just have to use a different name.
So anyone wanting to make TVRs of old can do so with relatively low start up cost (sub-500k) and anyone wanting the name has to take it and the liabilities - so its worth 0 or near 0.
The personalities involved will want money back, as has been mentioned - the guy who owns 50% actually may not be as fussed, but those that seemed to revel in being involved with it will want to save face.
Les played it badly.
He went in thinking that he'd make a quick killing.
Aggressive handling of dealers, parts manufacturers and highly experienced mechanics pissed all of them off.
Eager punters were exploited for deposits and then left to rot.
Classic case of greed and running before you're walking.
TL:DR Les blew it.
It's an unimpressive way to run any business venture and TVR deserved better.
He went in thinking that he'd make a quick killing.
Aggressive handling of dealers, parts manufacturers and highly experienced mechanics pissed all of them off.
Eager punters were exploited for deposits and then left to rot.
Classic case of greed and running before you're walking.
TL:DR Les blew it.
It's an unimpressive way to run any business venture and TVR deserved better.
OIC said:
Les played it badly.
He went in thinking that he'd make a quick killing.
Aggressive handling of dealers, parts manufacturers and highly experienced mechanics pissed all of them off.
Eager punters were exploited for deposits and then left to rot.
Classic case of greed and running before you're walking.
TL:DR Les blew it.
It's an unimpressive way to run any business venture and TVR deserved better.
Yep, 100%, that’s the crux of it.He went in thinking that he'd make a quick killing.
Aggressive handling of dealers, parts manufacturers and highly experienced mechanics pissed all of them off.
Eager punters were exploited for deposits and then left to rot.
Classic case of greed and running before you're walking.
TL:DR Les blew it.
It's an unimpressive way to run any business venture and TVR deserved better.
GTRene said:
agree with a lot and then I hear something in this nice video that TVR was at some point 1 of 3 biggest sports car producers in the world? ...
We could make a fun list. Not sure each of these are correct, but sometimes domination does not continue.
1 of the 3 biggest in the world
Midland Bank ( Then they bought a dog of a bank in USA, which began a slippery slope)
Morris Motors ( Became BMC; British Leyland; Rover then administration)
Compaq Computers
Kodak
Blockbuster
Woolworth's
Enron
One interesting car business, which might be the only member of this club.
Celebrated a centenary before ever making a profit
Aston Martin
- 
Mentioning Sportmotive TVR of Stoke-on-Trent
My classic is insured with classicline insurance. They have great story about Ben Coombs chimera being restored by the them. Ultimately this might be the only way to keep the TVR name alive.
https://www.classiclineinsurance.co.uk/tvr-restora...
My classic is insured with classicline insurance. They have great story about Ben Coombs chimera being restored by the them. Ultimately this might be the only way to keep the TVR name alive.
https://www.classiclineinsurance.co.uk/tvr-restora...
Edited by Penrhyn on Tuesday 28th October 13:21
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