New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
GTRene said:
I think that eventually, within five years, the TVR name will resurface and operate on a small scale.
For example, by restoring existing TVR models and restomodding existing ones.
Furthermore, small numbers of new TVR models will eventually be released, in such small quantities that expensive testing or similar won't be necessary; rather, individual inspections will suffice.
Hopefully, the TVR name will endure, not only with what was, but also with what they will do in the future.
For example, by restoring existing TVR models and restomodding existing ones.
Furthermore, small numbers of new TVR models will eventually be released, in such small quantities that expensive testing or similar won't be necessary; rather, individual inspections will suffice.
Hopefully, the TVR name will endure, not only with what was, but also with what they will do in the future.
I think I have just had a dream.
Have woken up now though.
Les Edgar has gone into hiding to conceal his embarrassment, wishing the whole sorry farce had never happened.
Production will begin in Wales.
We want to race our own cars at Le Mans.
Our new world headquarters will be opening at Thruxton.
Being a fictional story book author, would be a more appropriate occupation.
'small numbers of new TVR models'
That has already happened. The small number was 1, which is rumoured to have cost £13 million to design, develop and have built by a third party.
The car was then 'thoroughly' tested, by driving to a handful of publicity opportunities.
That was great fun, much more enjoyable than trying to raise the huge sum of money required for car production.
Production of a few emails was successfully completed, but unfortunately nothing else was produced.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 13th January 09:14
£13 million and then have to just store there things in the corner of a free warehouse, no way, who came up with that daft figure?
They would have to recover £13k on each and every of the first thousand cars alone just in development cost of one prototype before even one customer car was built.
No one puts that kind of money into a fantasy project however rich they are.
Its Mustang based at the end of the day, into a one off tube chassis. Couple of mill at most. Retro power knock out similar for a couple of hundred grand, they are now onto the second commission for Murray himself.
I always had the feeling the bill was never paid in full either, which is why Murray distances himself away from it these days/
They would have to recover £13k on each and every of the first thousand cars alone just in development cost of one prototype before even one customer car was built.
No one puts that kind of money into a fantasy project however rich they are.
Its Mustang based at the end of the day, into a one off tube chassis. Couple of mill at most. Retro power knock out similar for a couple of hundred grand, they are now onto the second commission for Murray himself.
I always had the feeling the bill was never paid in full either, which is why Murray distances himself away from it these days/
PAUL.S. said:
£13 million and then have to just store there things in the corner of a free warehouse, no way, who came up with that daft figure?
They would have to recover £13k on each and every of the first thousand cars alone just in development cost of one prototype before even one customer car was built. ...
They would have to recover £13k on each and every of the first thousand cars alone just in development cost of one prototype before even one customer car was built. ...
That often turns out to be the shocking arithmetic in todays motor car manufacturing industry.
Mercedes-Benz spent an estimated $4.3 to $6.5 billion developing their EQS and EQE battery car models.
The sales numbers turned out to be appalling, so instead of profit, huge losses were made. The planned platform revision for that model range has recently been cancelled.
That makes the rumoured TVR development costs look like a rounding adjustment.
Even a small manufacturer like Aston Martin have to spend hundreds of millions developing new models and they make a loss on every car sold.
TVR were wise to stop their project when they did, although forgot to make the associated announcement.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 13th January 19:15
That's like comparing apples with oranges, all TVR have to show for development is an actual Mustang and another placed into a one off chassis, nothing like what the big companies go through.
Does anyone really think Les managed to even get more than a few mill to sink into the project?
Does anyone really think Les managed to even get more than a few mill to sink into the project?
Type approval alone can be expensive, particularly for small scale manufacturers.
Sometimes 4 or even 5 cars are destroyed being crash tested.
EXTRACT;
All new vehicle models, regardless of manufacturer size, must undergo mandatory type approval, which involves testing prototypes against strict safety and environmental standards, including crash safety, before they can be sold in the UK, with results submitted to the Vehicle Certification Agency.
I think Koenigsegg have permission to reduce their cost, whereby they can use one car and rebuild it between tests.
The reason being, their carbon fibre chassis tub is so strong, that it is never damaged during the type approval tests.
When Edgar started to realise just how expensive manufacturing a new car would be, he stated in one of his many Sprint articles that the cost of the ABS system (Bosch) alone was £1m to develop.
From the accounts and articles back then I'd estimate the car cost approximately £5m. I'm not sure we will ever know though.
From the accounts and articles back then I'd estimate the car cost approximately £5m. I'm not sure we will ever know though.
Jon39 said:
Type approval alone can be expensive, particularly for small scale manufacturers.
Sometimes 4 or even 5 cars are destroyed being crash tested.
EXTRACT;
All new vehicle models, regardless of manufacturer size, must undergo mandatory type approval, which involves testing prototypes against strict safety and environmental standards, including crash safety, before they can be sold in the UK, with results submitted to the Vehicle Certification Agency.
I think Koenigsegg have permission to reduce their cost, whereby they can use one car and rebuild it between tests.
The reason being, their carbon fibre chassis tub is so strong, that it is never damaged during the type approval tests.
PAUL.S. said:
Its not even type approved, the prototype was registered basically as a one off kit car
Yes, I know.
My point was that type approval would have been yet another expensive cost, before the first production (new era) TVR customer car could be sold.
The reason that the mad cap venture did not proceed, was almost entirely due to the enormous cost, which is now involved to become a serious motor car manufacturer. Just look at the figures mentioned in the earlier post about the Ineos Grenadier. The Les Edgar group of enthusiastic amateurs, were 'out of their depth'. That became fairly obvious, a few months after the Goodwood unveiling.
I remember that Ineos initially intended to have their factory in Wales, but when the operational Mercedes-Benz / Swatch car factory became available in France, it was an opportunity for them to have a working factory much sooner.
I think the only way to make low volume cars work is an IVA type approach like MST with their escorts or Wells with the Vertige.
These are very simple vehicles with cheap engines and components and still in the £80-100k range. Single tiny workshop (not really a factory) and I have no idea what after sales support/service is like.
These are very simple vehicles with cheap engines and components and still in the £80-100k range. Single tiny workshop (not really a factory) and I have no idea what after sales support/service is like.
Jon39 said:
PAUL.S. said:
Its not even type approved, the prototype was registered basically as a one off kit car
Yes, I know.
My point was that type approval would have been yet another expensive cost, before the first production (new era) TVR customer car could be sold.
The reason that the mad cap venture did not proceed, was almost entirely due to the enormous cost, which is now involved to become a serious motor car manufacturer. Just look at the figures mentioned in the earlier post about the Ineos Grenadier. The Les Edgar group of enthusiastic amateurs, were 'out of their depth'. That became fairly obvious, a few months after the Goodwood unveiling.
I remember that Ineos initially intended to have their factory in Wales, but when the operational Mercedes-Benz / Swatch car factory became available in France, it was an opportunity for them to have a working factory much sooner.
Couple of mill at best to get to the point it failed.
You guys do know this thread title is 'New TVR still under wraps' ? Its no longer new and its not 'under wraps' TVR as we knew it is dead and buried. Cudos to Viper for keeping it going this long. Time to move on perhaps.... On a brighter note Beastie is getting a full body off chassis refurb 1st quarter this year.... 
Jon39 said:
Type approval alone can be expensive, particularly for small scale manufacturers.
Sometimes 4 or even 5 cars are destroyed being crash tested.
EXTRACT;
All new vehicle models, regardless of manufacturer size, must undergo mandatory type approval, which involves testing prototypes against strict safety and environmental standards, including crash safety, before they can be sold in the UK, with results submitted to the Vehicle Certification Agency.
I think Koenigsegg have permission to reduce their cost, whereby they can use one car and rebuild it between tests.
The reason being, their carbon fibre chassis tub is so strong, that it is never damaged during the type approval tests.
There type approval standards for low and small volume cars are much more liberal than for large volume production. With regards to this conversation - particuarly more liberal in crash safety (no vehicles needing to be crashed), no abs or stability control requirements, no specific emissions testing (depending on the volume), no EU nannying aid requirements.
If I recall correctly the thresholds are at 250 and 1000 (or is it 1500) cars per year.
Ever wondered why lots of limited run cars are at or just under those numbers?
baconsarney said:
You guys do know this thread title is 'New TVR still under wraps' ? Its no longer new and its not 'under wraps' TVR as we knew it is dead and buried. Cudos to Viper for keeping it going this long. Time to move on perhaps.... On a brighter note Beastie is getting a full body off chassis refurb 1st quarter this year....
Yes ... Homes , Gardens and DIY is the future ...... Veggies have quit here 
crosseyedlion said:
There type approval standards for low and small volume cars are much more liberal than for large volume production. With regards to this conversation - particuarly more liberal in crash safety (no vehicles needing to be crashed), no abs or stability control requirements, no specific emissions testing (depending on the volume), no EU nannying aid requirements.
If I recall correctly the thresholds are at 250 and 1000 (or is it 1500) cars per year.
Ever wondered why lots of limited run cars are at or just under those numbers?
If I recall correctly the thresholds are at 250 and 1000 (or is it 1500) cars per year.
Ever wondered why lots of limited run cars are at or just under those numbers?
This is quite confusing.
Christian von Koenigsegg has spoken on videos about type approval regulations and crash testing requirements.
At 35 (hoping to increase to 50) cars per year, you would presumably put that business into the 'low and small volume' category.
Therefore you say no vehicles are crash tested.
Is it because Koenigsegg wish to sell in many countries, that it is different for them?
Or might the Swedish rules different from those in the U.K. ?
Whatever is the reason, they have managed to obtain agreement, for only one car of each model to be crash tested, instead of several.
This is what the internet (might be wrong) says about Koenigsegg's situation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christian von Koenigsegg has spoken extensively about his company's innovative approach to meeting stringent crash test and homologation requirements.
Due to the high cost and limited production volume of their hypercars, Koenigsegg cannot afford to destroy multiple vehicles like large manufacturers. Instead, they use a single carbon-fiber monocoque chassis engineered to withstand multiple impacts.
Koenigsegg's Crash Test Philosophy
Reusable Monocoque: The core of their strategy is an immensely strong carbon-fiber and Kevlar monocoque that remains intact through numerous crash scenarios, including front, side, rear, and offset corner impacts.
Repairs and Rebuilds: After each test, the damaged external body panels, subframes, and airbags are replaced or repaired, and the same chassis is prepared for the next test. This process saves significant time, money, and resources compared to using a new car for each test.
Advanced Simulation: Koenigsegg heavily relies on supercomputer simulations to predict crash results and refine designs before physical testing begins, which helps reduce risk and cost during the physical tests.
Meeting Global Standards: This method allows the company to meet all necessary safety and homologation requirements for different markets, including stringent European and US standards, proving that extreme performance can coexist with top-tier safety.
Rigorous Durability Testing: Beyond standard crash tests, the vehicles undergo various durability assessments, including intentionally rough handling like slamming doors with force and striking bodywork with hammers, to ensure components are robust and airbags are correctly calibrated.
Videos detailing this unique process can be viewed on channels like Apex One and Motor Authority, where Christian von Koenigsegg and his homologation manager David Tugas explain the process in detail.
How to crash test a $2 million Koenigsegg hypercar
25 Apr 2019 CEO Chrisitan von Koenigsegg and David Tugas, the company's homologation manager, explain the company's innovative process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is a man who has actually succeeded, in creating a successful sports car manufacturing business.
It all began I think, with him modifying a BMW saloon.
Christian von Koenigsegg is a remarkably skilled engineer, which must have been a very important talent in achieving success.
Les Edgar is ??????????
I wonder if LE looks at Koenigsegg and either thinks, that should have been us or, I cannot understand how they did so well?
bad company said:
Monkeylegend said:
Well I have just placed an order for one on the official TVR website, £5k deposit an absolute bargain, what could go wrong.
Well done you. When are you getting delivery?That website should be closed down though. How can TVR continue with what is bordering on a scam website after all these years of delivering nothing.
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