New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Jon39 said:
Gazzab said:
Most will be leased.
Have you seen the losses now being reported by leasing companies?
Many original estimated residual values, have turned out to be far too high.
Batches of vehicles handed back at the end of lease, are then put into car auctions.
With used demand exceeding end of lease supply, the prices achieved are lower than the residuals and so the leasing firm has to take the hit.
I hear that some lessees are being offered one year extensions. It puts off the lessor's write down for further year.
Assume he mean supply exceeds demand. Assume this is a set of assumptions rather than facts? But wouldn’t surprise me if the lease companies have lost money with some models but the issue with Taycan residuals has been known for some time now so I assume that between Porsche, the funders and the leasing agents they have been able to make it work.
ant550lag said:
Jon39 said:
Gazzab said:
Most will be leased.
Have you seen the losses now being reported by leasing companies?
Many original estimated residual values, have turned out to be far too high.
Batches of vehicles handed back at the end of lease, are then put into car auctions.
With used demand exceeding end of lease supply, the prices achieved are lower than the residuals and so the leasing firm has to take the hit.
I hear that some lessees are being offered one year extensions. It puts off the lessor's write down for further year.
My apologies Ant and GB.
My accidental reversing of the words completely changed the meaning.
I think there is the strange situation of tax and other financial incentives being available for new EVs, to artificially boost demand, but when those vehicles reach the used market, pricing is reliant simply on supply and demand.
People in the car leasing business cannot be a happy bunch. I suppose they will try to increase the pricing of their leases in an attempt to recoup previous losses, but now that fresh competition has arrived from Chinese offers such as, £299 deposit, followed by £299 monthly for a new £30,000 car. The western car manufacturers will roll over if customers queue up for those offers. Could that be the plan?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Search result. Sources are shown originally, but not it seems subsequently.
Major leasing companies, particularly in the UK, have reported significant losses on electric vehicles (EVs) due to rapidly plummeting used car prices and aggressive new car discounts, with average used EV values falling 46% between 2021 and 2024
Companies experiencing significant hits include Lex Autolease, Tusker, and Zenith, which have reported severe losses and profit slumps.
Lex Autolease: Reported a £10.6 million loss before tax in 2024, with AM-online reporting a profit drop of over £400m due to falling used EV values.
Tusker: Reported a £34.2m loss, driven by higher-than-expected losses on EV disposal.
Zenith: Reported a 28.4% drop in adjusted EBITDA (down to £33.8m) due to plummeting used EV values, with average EV losses per unit rising.
Widespread Industry Impact: The British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association (BVRLA) reported that “five-figure losses” on individual EVs are common, affecting many firms.
Other Affected Companies: Reports suggest potential risks to large European leasing operators like Arval and Ayvens.
The losses are driven by:
Weak Residual Values: EVs are worth significantly less than original predictions.
Aggressive New EV Discounts: High manufacturer discounts on new EVs disrupt the used market.
Increased Depreciation: According to data in a Motor Finance Online article, legacy valuation assumptions failed to account for these market changes.
QBee said:
Straw poll confirmation.
A top spec Tesla Model 3 one of my clients bought in December 2021 for £60,000 was sold for £19,500 just over 3 years and 50,000 miles later. They do far better selling used hybrids.
A top spec Tesla Model 3 one of my clients bought in December 2021 for £60,000 was sold for £19,500 just over 3 years and 50,000 miles later. They do far better selling used hybrids.
I am amused that my DD is categorised by the DVLA as;
Alternative Fuel Vehicle.
Hybrid Electric (Clean).
The car has a 2 litre turbo petrol engine.
Electric power cannot move the vehicle.
When loaded (2 tons) on a steady speed long motorway journey, the consumption is about 55 mpg.
Quite good, so perhaps that is why they call it (Clean).
A 48 volt motor is positioned between the engine and the 9 speed torque shift automatic transmission.
The electric motor just replaces a conventional starter motor and alternator, also provides torque to fill in for turbo lag. That is all.
Oh, the 48 volt battery can power seat heating and air conditioning without needing the engine, which is occasionally handy.
Plug in hybrid cars seem to now be starting to receive criticism. Electric range less than the manufacturers claim, so when driving on the ICE, an unused very heavy main battery has to be hauled around. Boot space is usually reduced, there is a very complex electrical system, which if unlucky can be expensive to fix. Rachel from Halifax Customer Complaints, plans to impose a per mile charge on PHEVs.
This all points towards possibly reduced residuals.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Sunday 29th March 20:41
Dewi 2 said:
Plug in hybrid cars seem to now be starting to receive criticism. Electric range less than the manufacturers claim, so when driving on the ICE, an unused very heavy main battery has to be hauled around. Boot space is usually reduced, there is a very complex electrical system, which if unlucky can be expensive to fix. Rachel from Halifax Customer Complaints, plans to impose a per mile charge on PHEVs.
This all points towards possibly reduced residuals.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Sunday 29th March 20:41
When Mercedes first bought out the diesel hybrid E Class it was the choice of most Chauffeur Drivers and PH companies, not because it was supposed to have a very optimistic 30 mile range on electric only, which was completely useless for a vehicle doing high miles and driven for maybe 12 hours plus a day, but because it was Congestion Charge exempt.
Nobody bothered to run them on electric, it wasn't worth the time and effort to keep them charged for maybe 20 miles or so in London on electric, so most ended up driving a more polluting car lugging round a heavy battery that was doing nothing, other than increasing diesel consumption and emissions.
And when they went wrong, which was guaranteed, nobody at Mercedes knew how to fix them.
Another well thought out idea in the interests of pretending to be environmentally aware
Monkeylegend said:
This is nothing new.
When Mercedes first bought out the diesel hybrid E Class it was the choice of most Chauffeur Drivers and PH companies, not because it was supposed to have a very optimistic 30 mile range on electric only, which was completely useless for a vehicle doing high miles and driven for maybe 12 hours plus a day, but because it was Congestion Charge exempt.
Nobody bothered to run them on electric, it wasn't worth the time and effort to keep them charged for maybe 20 miles or so in London on electric, so most ended up driving a more polluting car lugging round a heavy battery that was doing nothing, other than increasing diesel consumption and emissions.
And when they went wrong, which was guaranteed, nobody at Mercedes knew how to fix them.
Another well thought out idea in the interests of pretending to be environmentally aware
When Mercedes first bought out the diesel hybrid E Class it was the choice of most Chauffeur Drivers and PH companies, not because it was supposed to have a very optimistic 30 mile range on electric only, which was completely useless for a vehicle doing high miles and driven for maybe 12 hours plus a day, but because it was Congestion Charge exempt.
Nobody bothered to run them on electric, it wasn't worth the time and effort to keep them charged for maybe 20 miles or so in London on electric, so most ended up driving a more polluting car lugging round a heavy battery that was doing nothing, other than increasing diesel consumption and emissions.
And when they went wrong, which was guaranteed, nobody at Mercedes knew how to fix them.
Another well thought out idea in the interests of pretending to be environmentally aware
An interesting aspect.
A coincidence that you have described that model.
When choosing a replacement for my CLK, driven daily for 24 years, I was grateful to have read so much adverse internet
information ( it must be true!
) about EVs and PHEVs.My replacement DD is a petrol E Class.
As you intimate, diesels Es dominate in the UK, so I had to be very patient waiting for a non diesel, non black car to become available.
It has turned out to be a wonderful car and although almost brand new, was cheaper than a new VW Golf.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Monday 30th March 09:28
QBee said:
...and when the Mercedes hybrid SUVs go wrong, they are expensive to repair.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
They have to cover those, discounted, £42,500 repair bills somehow: https://www.tiktok.com/@nadia_adan/video/737414298...This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
QBee said:
...and when the Mercedes hybrid SUVs go wrong, they are expensive to repair.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
The small hybrid battery in the early hybrid E Class was about £7k and even though it was very rarely used on electric only the car would not work without a healthy battery.
I was warned by Mercedes themselves to steer well clear of them because they openly admitted they had very little knowledge of how to get them working when they went wrong.
Made a TVR look reliable by comparision.
Monkeylegend said:
QBee said:
...and when the Mercedes hybrid SUVs go wrong, they are expensive to repair.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
The small hybrid battery in the early hybrid E Class was about £7k and even though it was very rarely used on electric only the car would not work without a healthy battery.
I was warned by Mercedes themselves to steer well clear of them because they openly admitted they had very little knowledge of how to get them working when they went wrong.
Made a TVR look reliable by comparision.
Viper201 said:
Monkeylegend said:
QBee said:
...and when the Mercedes hybrid SUVs go wrong, they are expensive to repair.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
This can be seen from the cost of adding a 4th year to the manufacturer's warranty:
Extra warranty for one year, Mercedes GLC petrol hybrid £1668
Extra warranty for one year, BMW I4 BEV, cost £443.
The small hybrid battery in the early hybrid E Class was about £7k and even though it was very rarely used on electric only the car would not work without a healthy battery.
I was warned by Mercedes themselves to steer well clear of them because they openly admitted they had very little knowledge of how to get them working when they went wrong.
Made a TVR look reliable by comparision.
Viper201 said:
In case anyone needs the information:
The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
I always thought the Board Meetings must have been held in a Pub The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
Viper201 said:
In case anyone needs the information:
The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
Confusing.
I thought the global headquarters operation was located at Thruxton.
Am sure there was a corporate announcement by the Chairman.
Handy for both helicopter travel and prototype testing.
Jon39 said:
Viper201 said:
In case anyone needs the information:
The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
The remaining TVR Companies have today moved their registered office address to 2 The Bars, Guildford, GU1 4LP from E2 Yeoman Gate Office Park, Yeoman Way, Worthing BN13 3QZ.
Confusing.
I thought the global headquarters operation was located at Thruxton.
Am sure there was a corporate announcement by the Chairman.
Handy for both helicopter travel and prototype testing.
QBee said:
There's a law firm at that address.
Oh dear. Hope they don't specialise in mis-selling.
imagine if they were to commence a class action, against someone who obtained deposits on the pretext of providing brand new sports cars, but who did not possess the necessary funds to supply those cars. Eventually those deposits were rightfully returned, but only after the people scammed had suffered, worry, anxiety, hurt, disappointment, loss of interest and endured intense pain after being sent a series of nonsensical statements which promised the impossible.
If there happens to be an American man amongst the victims, whose name begins with T, then he will probably accept $5 billion compensation.
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff