Tappet noise with videos and history potential liner slip?

[Mattiegk]

Hi so ive gotten my car out of some not so ideal storage for the past 4 years and am currently trying to fix all the issues i had back when i was poor.

This is a rattle i noticed not so long into my ownership from 8 years ago.
The car has had a rebuild by TVR Power in 2006 ( 12k miles since rebuild). Going through the history to refresh my memory has made me wonder if the same problem from before has re occurred .
It was found to have slipped No7 liner and piston skirt broken.

I am hoping it is just the hydraulic lifters and not something more serious . Overall the noise doesn't bother me too much and i will be attempting a body off job along with engine upgrades, cam etc and mapping in the next 12-24 months.

The problem gets worse as the engine starts to warm but lessens off and only really comes in on over run/pulling away from idle.
When i first got the car it was running Magnetic 10-40w, now i run Rav VR1 20-50w
The first video is from start up and the noise really starts to come in at 3mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZSdGufids

second is about 6/7 mins in with some low revs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm5pCOSmF1Y

3rd is when fully hot after a short drive
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZQucJuTfXqU

Excuse the state of my hands i should really use gloves
What do you guys think?

[pvn]

When the liners slipped on my Chimaera 450 the noise was much louder and less rattly. It sounded like loose tappets but very much louder. It would be very intermittent - it would start and continue for a while and then suddenly quieten down again. It seems at certain temps the piston rings weld themselves to the piston liner which then goes up and down with the piston slapping the cylinder head very hard.

I had my engine rebuilt by V8 Developments who found two liners to have slipped. They fitted all the cylinders with "Top Hat" liners to ensure the problem can't recur. I would have imagined that TVR Power would have taken the same approach. Worth checking with them maybe?

I hope this helps and wish you well in getting it sorted.

[Mattiegk]

pvn said:

When the liners slipped on my Chimaera 450 the noise was much louder and less rattly. It sounded like loose tappets but very much louder. It would be very intermittent - it would start and continue for a while and then suddenly quieten down again. It seems at certain temps the piston rings weld themselves to the piston liner which then goes up and down with the piston slapping the cylinder head very hard.

I had my engine rebuilt by V8 Developments who found two liners to have slipped. They fitted all the cylinders with "Top Hat" liners to ensure the problem can't recur. I would have imagined that TVR Power would have taken the same approach. Worth checking with them maybe?

I hope this helps and wish you well in getting it sorted.

thanks, i cant see any mention of "Top Hat" liners in the invoice . i will give them a call and see if it would be something they did back then.

[Belle427]

Sounds like a lazy lifter to me but difficult to diagnose stuff like this by sound clips.
Have you got it out and driven it much at all after being stood, changed the oil etc?

[Mattchim]

So the noise was there before the car went into storage.
I spoke to TVR power today and was informed that No at that time the Top Hats would not have been done. And also if it is a slipped liner then the noise should dampen down a bit when the fans kicks .
In regards to oil I am going to put some additives in then let it run for a while with some additional cooling fans . Then change the oil and filter

Car is currently sorn and no mot. Doing some work to get it through the MOT this weekend

[lancepar]

Does anyone else think it could be timing chain slap?

[NicBowman]

Mm, I would lean towards timing chain. Easy to check, front cover off. honestly doesn’t sound terrible. I would drive it.

Nic

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

I had a similar noise when the exhaust gasket went faulty.

[Mattiegk]

I found this thread which has kind of set mind at ease a little https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[mcosh]

Have you checked the basics like oil feeds? Sounds like starvation. May want to drop the sump and make sure the pickup is clear.

[s p a c e m a n]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273025178776?mkcid=16&a...

Narrow it down, get a stethoscope, stick it on things until it gets loud

[scoobywheeler]

Thats a 500 right? It's a common problem with that engine I'm afraid. It's worn little ends. The increase in noise on overrun is the tell tale sign. Had exactly the same on my car. New pistons did the trick.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TRJBZMhF3JAKsNWZ6

[Mattchim]

scoobywheeler said:

Thats a 500 right? It's a common problem with that engine I'm afraid. It's worn little ends. The increase in noise on overrun is the tell tale sign. Had exactly the same on my car. New pistons did the trick.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TRJBZMhF3JAKsNWZ6

Thanks , sounds exactly like mine . anything to prevent it happening after new pistons?

[scoobywheeler]

I'm not sure TBH, though I'm told it's a design fault with how TVR butchered the RV8 to get to 5 litres. I actually had oversize pistons with a new crank to take the bore out and reduce the stroke too so not quite a straight like for like swap.

[Belle427]

Mattchim said:

scoobywheeler said:

Thats a 500 right? It's a common problem with that engine I'm afraid. It's worn little ends. The increase in noise on overrun is the tell tale sign. Had exactly the same on my car. New pistons did the trick.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TRJBZMhF3JAKsNWZ6

Thanks , sounds exactly like mine . anything to prevent it happening after new pistons?

Maybe worth a call to V8 developments to discuss your options if it is bottom end related, they will probably advise you to replace the engine to one of their stronger units.
Not what you want to hear but their engines are fantastic.

[Mattchim]

i spoke to them today. It is going to eat into my body off fund considerably but seeing as my outriggers are not quite dangerous and falling apart yet i can go for one of their 5.0s late this year and save again for the body off the following winter.

No use having all of the chassis done if she has a dodgy heart. The car runs really lumpy/ jerky and slow to pick up power at the moment.
Hopefully this will fix my problems,
V8Developments 5.0L

5.0L Top hat linered block
New Forged pistons
New rings
New mains
New big Ends
New cam bearings
New core plugs
Fully balanced assembly
Pocketing of pistons
Special grind cam (Spec to be finalised)
Special grind cam
Timing chain set
High rev Lifters
Running in oil and additive
Comp head gaskets
Comp head bolts
Recondition customer cylinder heads,
Vaccuum test
Lap valves
New stem seals
All required gaskets and seals

[Belle427]

They are well known for building cooking engines and are not that bad price wise.
Pity the Tvr 500 engine wasn’t better thought out, many run without issue but they are a bit of an odd design and known for bottom end problems.
Makes me wonder why Tvr power couldn’t have done what V8D do to build a strong engine, probably cost related.

[Classic Chim]

Mattchim said:

i spoke to them today. It is going to eat into my body off fund considerably but seeing as my outriggers are not quite dangerous and falling apart yet i can go for one of their 5.0s late this year and save again for the body off the following winter.

No use having all of the chassis done if she has a dodgy heart. The car runs really lumpy/ jerky and slow to pick up power at the moment.
Hopefully this will fix my problems,
V8Developments 5.0L

5.0L Top hat linered block
New Forged pistons
New rings
New mains
New big Ends
New cam bearings
New core plugs
Fully balanced assembly
Pocketing of pistons
Special grind cam (Spec to be finalised)
Special grind cam
Timing chain set
High rev Lifters
Running in oil and additive
Comp head gaskets
Comp head bolts
Recondition customer cylinder heads,
Vaccuum test
Lap valves
New stem seals
All required gaskets and seals

Check regards flywheel and clutch requirements on this engine.
You will need a 5.0 ported inlet manifold and 44 mm plenum base/ trumpets
I assume engine front pulley harmonic crank wheel off a 4.0 fits and still lines up on timing marks.
Ask builder about that and it’s woodruff key.
Does your distributor fit straight into this new motor.
You will need a 5.0 chip installed into your cux Ecu so you might aswell take it to Joolz of Kits and Classics fame and have him rolling road the new set up to bespoke map that chip.
No point in a new motor if it’s running lean/ rich through using a generic map.

I’d talk directly to a decent Tvr Centre about this upgrade and exactly what’s needed to complete it if your unsure. How much would they charge to install it all and get it tuned and running sweet straight out the box. . It might be better value than you think because there are differences and thinks to consider here.
Just a heads up there will be other costs involved in going bigger than just the engine size alone. Well worth it though

I think if your spending a big chunk of money on a fabulous engine having a respected specialist install it all would add great kudos to the build and ensure it’s running spot on.
A very healthy receipt to have to back up the even healthier engine receipt behind it
The extra cost of having it installed seems negligible as it shows the cars been done professionally.
If your not bothered about that sort of thing then just do this homework before you embark on what should be a wonderful journey.
Unseen costs escalate. Consider every detail. Oh you definitely need a bigger or less restrictive air intake pipe and hearty K&N filter ta boot ,,, see I’m even spending more of your money before you’ve started.
The ACT set up is great and adds more air in my estimation and keeps it cooler so you got to have one of those
It’s all about maximising this opportunity so while your there it’s time to replace the Ecu and wiring
There is some good evidence in that last statement,,, You will ideally want such a finely built engine to run clean and healthy from the off so you want your 5.0 chip mapped by Joolz it seems to me, no generic chip is that accurate so that costs money. For a slightly larger investment you can have a new system installed and mapped and far more reliable and efficient from then onwards.
Constantly having to work on the Cux costs money so a new system removes a huge amount of maintenance / repairs minor faults so your engine seems guaranteed to run at its optimal performance for years rather than a few months or seasons at a time.
Not strictly necessary but 10k should cover it all. Lol
Then you’ll need a new Dif but after that at that stage you have a new car and it feels like it
The holy grail of Tvr ownership. No shunting and lots and lots of useable power. The speedo still won’t work but you’ll not have time to look at it as you blister down the road at a rate of knots not even later TVR can beat to a certain point. I only look at the Rev counter, knowing your speed is not what you want to know
You will have a great car with this power plant. A fabulous base to work with

Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 4th May 10:54

[Mattchim]

Classic Chim said:

Check regards flywheel and clutch requirements on this engine.
You will need a 5.0 ported inlet manifold and 44 mm plenum base/ trumpets
I assume engine front pulley harmonic crank wheel off a 4.0 fits and still lines up on timing marks.
Ask builder about that and it’s woodruff key.
Does your distributor fit straight into this new motor.
You will need a 5.0 chip installed into your cux Ecu so you might aswell take it to Joolz of Kits and Classics fame and have him rolling road the new set up to bespoke map that chip.
No point in a new motor if it’s running lean/ rich through using a generic map.

I’d talk directly to a decent Tvr Centre about this upgrade and exactly what’s needed to complete it if your unsure. How much would they charge to install it all and get it tuned and running sweet straight out the box. . It might be better value than you think because there are differences and thinks to consider here.
Just a heads up there will be other costs involved in going bigger than just the engine size alone. Well worth it though

I think if your spending a big chunk of money on a fabulous engine having a respected specialist install it all would add great kudos to the build and ensure it’s running spot on.
A very healthy receipt to have to back up the even healthier engine receipt behind it
The extra cost of having it installed seems negligible as it shows the cars been done professionally.
If your not bothered about that sort of thing then just do this homework before you embark on what should be a wonderful journey.
Unseen costs escalate. Consider every detail. Oh you definitely need a bigger or less restrictive air intake pipe and hearty K&N filter ta boot ,,, see I’m even spending more of your money before you’ve started.
The ACT set up is great and adds more air in my estimation and keeps it cooler so you got to have one of those
It’s all about maximising this opportunity so while your there it’s time to replace the Ecu and wiring
There is some good evidence in that last statement,,, You will ideally want such a finely built engine to run clean and healthy from the off so you want your 5.0 chip mapped by Joolz it seems to me, no generic chip is that accurate so that costs money. For a slightly larger investment you can have a new system installed and mapped and far more reliable and efficient from then onwards.
Constantly having to work on the Cux costs money so a new system removes a huge amount of maintenance / repairs minor faults so your engine seems guaranteed to run at its optimal performance for years rather than a few months or seasons at a time.
Not strictly necessary but 10k should cover it all. Lol
Then you’ll need a new Dif but after that at that stage you have a new car and it feels like it
The holy grail of Tvr ownership. No shunting and lots and lots of useable power. The speedo still won’t work but you’ll not have time to look at it as you blister down the road at a rate of knots not even later TVR can beat to a certain point. I only look at the Rev counter, knowing your speed is not what you want to know
You will have a great car with this power plant. A fabulous base to work with

Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 4th May 10:54

I am going from a 5.0 serp engine to this engine not from a 4.0 or have Interpreted the above incorrectly

[Mattchim]

scoobywheeler said:

I'm not sure TBH, though I'm told it's a design fault with how TVR butchered the RV8 to get to 5 litres. I actually had oversize pistons with a new crank to take the bore out and reduce the stroke too so not quite a straight like for like swap.

Could you drop me a PM? who did the work and what did it cost you? i jsut read your thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...