Weber refurb services
Discussion
I've been toying with the idea of having my Weber twin 40 DCOE 's professionally refurbished.
On the upside they work fine and produce good power. However the idle is a bit variable one day to the next and they do show other signs of general wear - they are now 50 years old.
The options are buy a brand set of genuine (Spanish) 40's at around £900 or have the existing (Italian) ones professionally refurbed at around £400. The refurb 'blurb' sounds great being fully stripped down to components, ultrasonic clean & gentle blast, rebuilt with full new gasket & seal kit, faces resurfaced as required, worn screws, needle valves replaced, float system set etc.
Anyone been down this road and care to share their experiences / results.
Moto
On the upside they work fine and produce good power. However the idle is a bit variable one day to the next and they do show other signs of general wear - they are now 50 years old.
The options are buy a brand set of genuine (Spanish) 40's at around £900 or have the existing (Italian) ones professionally refurbed at around £400. The refurb 'blurb' sounds great being fully stripped down to components, ultrasonic clean & gentle blast, rebuilt with full new gasket & seal kit, faces resurfaced as required, worn screws, needle valves replaced, float system set etc.
Anyone been down this road and care to share their experiences / results.
Moto
I've learnt a lot about Weber carbs in the last 4 weeks or so. Reading books, googling, Youtube and speaking with the tech guys at some of the distributors. All in I reckon it's not the 'black magic' I always thought it was and once I'd understood terms such as 'idle', 'progression' & 'mains' I was on my way to understanding the basic principles. However to get a good setup, experience is key and there are lots of armchair experts who can easily send you down the wrong path.
Weber also confuse the in-experienced by their numbering system used for jets etc. They do not run in sequence as one would expect but seem completely arbitrary. ie F8 is a lean idle jet. To go richer one step change to an F9. All very logical. But if you still want another step richer then you change to an F6 !!!
Another visit to my local RR and I watched the guys do their stuff - understanding more of what they were doing than last time I visited. The top end power was good, the curves smooth, long and fairly flat. However driving home I could feel hesitation on cruise and light throttle that wasn't there before. A couple of days later I went for a 150 mile run of country lanes, A roads and motorways making a mental note of when the hesitations were most noticeable. A telephone call to the very helpful local RR and they said bring it back on Monday and they'll put it back on the rollers.
In the meantime I had a conversation with another very helpful Tech guy at one of the big Weber distributers and ran through the issue and the setup specs. The view was that I was running way too lean on idle and that my whole setup was really quite lean across the board. So on Monday I shared this with the local RR guys. They thought this made complete sense and changed to a richer idle jet before we both went for a road test. It was worse than before. The older (& more experienced) of the 2 guys immediately said it's too rich not too lean - he had spotted a bit of sooty black smoke as we left. so we went the opposite way - one step leaner than original setup. Another road test and RESULT. A definite improvement with the hesitation almost gone. Another step leaner and we were bang on the money.
So in summary :
I won't be getting the carbs refurb'd or replaced. If I had got to that stage I think I'd have gone for a brand new set as the price to refurb is relatively high and it would not have addressed any running issues. It seems to me that it's basically a just good clean and new gasket set.
In future any rolling road will include a road test prior to leaving as rolling roads are great for high end power but don't effectively test low end running.
All the right logic may not be right for a particular car. I wonder for example that because I'm running a old style cam which is long duration and low lift may this demands a different setup compared to a more modern Kent style cam that is higher lift and shorter duration. Basically every car is different and decades of hands on experience surely counts for a lot.
Apologies for this being a bit of a ramble but it may help someone who is struggling to get their carbs running as well as they should be.
Moto
Weber also confuse the in-experienced by their numbering system used for jets etc. They do not run in sequence as one would expect but seem completely arbitrary. ie F8 is a lean idle jet. To go richer one step change to an F9. All very logical. But if you still want another step richer then you change to an F6 !!!
Another visit to my local RR and I watched the guys do their stuff - understanding more of what they were doing than last time I visited. The top end power was good, the curves smooth, long and fairly flat. However driving home I could feel hesitation on cruise and light throttle that wasn't there before. A couple of days later I went for a 150 mile run of country lanes, A roads and motorways making a mental note of when the hesitations were most noticeable. A telephone call to the very helpful local RR and they said bring it back on Monday and they'll put it back on the rollers.
In the meantime I had a conversation with another very helpful Tech guy at one of the big Weber distributers and ran through the issue and the setup specs. The view was that I was running way too lean on idle and that my whole setup was really quite lean across the board. So on Monday I shared this with the local RR guys. They thought this made complete sense and changed to a richer idle jet before we both went for a road test. It was worse than before. The older (& more experienced) of the 2 guys immediately said it's too rich not too lean - he had spotted a bit of sooty black smoke as we left. so we went the opposite way - one step leaner than original setup. Another road test and RESULT. A definite improvement with the hesitation almost gone. Another step leaner and we were bang on the money.
So in summary :
I won't be getting the carbs refurb'd or replaced. If I had got to that stage I think I'd have gone for a brand new set as the price to refurb is relatively high and it would not have addressed any running issues. It seems to me that it's basically a just good clean and new gasket set.
In future any rolling road will include a road test prior to leaving as rolling roads are great for high end power but don't effectively test low end running.
All the right logic may not be right for a particular car. I wonder for example that because I'm running a old style cam which is long duration and low lift may this demands a different setup compared to a more modern Kent style cam that is higher lift and shorter duration. Basically every car is different and decades of hands on experience surely counts for a lot.
Apologies for this being a bit of a ramble but it may help someone who is struggling to get their carbs running as well as they should be.
Moto
There's a lot of negative info about Spanish Weber's on the Aston (amoc) forum.
An individual had his original Weber's "lost", by the company that was rebuilding the engine.So,they provided some "nice new Spanish ones".
They were so bad apparently ( with regard to progression holes) with stumbling on progression,that the owner has bought 3 dellorto's .These required significant mods re linkages etc .But have proved even better than original Weber's.
An individual had his original Weber's "lost", by the company that was rebuilding the engine.So,they provided some "nice new Spanish ones".
They were so bad apparently ( with regard to progression holes) with stumbling on progression,that the owner has bought 3 dellorto's .These required significant mods re linkages etc .But have proved even better than original Weber's.
I had also heard plenty of -ve comments on new Spanish made Webers. However I've also heard plenty with the opposite view. So I found it impossible to draw a conclusion as to the best route.
Many of the main suppliers are now selling brand new Weber 40 DCOE's at around 25% off RRP which brings them in at approx £800 for the pair. Also looking at eBay completed auctions, good used ones are only fetching £250 - £400, although there are plenty unsold ones asking much much more, £500-£800 being quite common.
I think more classic car owners are moving to a 3D mapped with throttle bodies setup. There is plentiful supply of used carbs on eBay and without numerous people buying, why the prices for new and used ones are down.
I competed at Harewood last weekend and on exiting Orchard (right hander & uphill) I could feel a slight hesitation. However it was perfect everywhere else, at both Prescott the previous weekend and on the road. So I'm still bouncing around options. It'll be interesting to see how it goes at Shelsley next weekend.
Moto
Many of the main suppliers are now selling brand new Weber 40 DCOE's at around 25% off RRP which brings them in at approx £800 for the pair. Also looking at eBay completed auctions, good used ones are only fetching £250 - £400, although there are plenty unsold ones asking much much more, £500-£800 being quite common.
I think more classic car owners are moving to a 3D mapped with throttle bodies setup. There is plentiful supply of used carbs on eBay and without numerous people buying, why the prices for new and used ones are down.
I competed at Harewood last weekend and on exiting Orchard (right hander & uphill) I could feel a slight hesitation. However it was perfect everywhere else, at both Prescott the previous weekend and on the road. So I'm still bouncing around options. It'll be interesting to see how it goes at Shelsley next weekend.
Moto
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