Golf MK2 wheel binding

[TROOPER88]

Hi Guys
I have just changed the discs and pads on the front of a MK2 Golf GTi.

I did the passenger side first and as soon as I did it I knew there was a problem as I could not spin the wheel by hand.
I applied the brake a few times but it is still the same.

I drove it down the road and back to try and free it off but when I got back and had a look the disc was very hot.

Why might the calliper not be releasing?

Many thanks

[Nick1point9]

Possibly got the wrong thickness pads/discs fitted; was the caliper difficult to fit around the pads even with the piston pushed back fully? Have you since done the other side to see if the problem occurs there too?

If not the seal around the piston may have been damaged whilst the piston was being pushed back into the caliper, what tool did you use to do it? Were you smooth and slow?

Any evidence of overheating/binding on the removed parts? I.e. excessive wear compared to the other side or discolouration of the disc (a yellowy "straw" colour indicates steel has been mildly over heated) or the pad compound becoming brittle?

Edited by Nick1point9 on Wednesday 29th May 14:04

[TROOPER88]

Nick1point9 said:

Possibly got the wrong thickness pads/discs fitted; was the caliper difficult to fit around the pads even with the piston pushed back fully? Have you since done the other side to see if the problem occurs there too?

If not the seal around the piston may have been damaged whilst the piston was being pushed back into the caliper, what tool did you use to do it? Were you smooth and slow?

Any evidence of overheating/binding on the removed parts? I.e. excessive wear compared to the other side or discolouration of the disc (a yellowy "straw" colour indicates steel has been mildly over heated) or the pad compound becoming brittle?

Edited by Nick1point9 on Wednesday 29th May 14:04

Hi
Thanks for the reply.
The passenger side was a pain (the side that is now binding).
As you said, even though the piston was pushed fully back the calliper did not want to fit back on. I had to tap it back into position with a rubber mallet.

The funny thing is though, I did the drivers side in less than 5 minutes with no trouble at all!

I did not notice any strange marks on the old discs but can check.

I pushed the piston back with my thumbs so not damage to the seal.

[one eyed mick]

Possible interior collapse of flexi pipe to caliper and before all the barroom techs start shouting it DOES happen the interior lining acts as a one way valve , slacken the bleed valve and if the wheel turns freely you have found your prob ,I have had this several times and it's why I don'tlike useing the clamps that are freely available

[Nick1point9]

The fact that you had to tap the calliper back on with a hammer is definitely related; was the piston the whole way back or just most of the way?

Take it off again and see if you can get it fully home; the piston can only move out not in during normal operation so if its not the whole way home then it won't back off any further.

[TROOPER88]

Nick1point9 said:

The fact that you had to tap the calliper back on with a hammer is definitely related; was the piston the whole way back or just most of the way?

Take it off again and see if you can get it fully home; the piston can only move out not in during normal operation so if its not the whole way home then it won't back off any further.

Hi
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Tbh I am pretty sure the piston was as far back as it could be but will re-check on Friday morning which is the next opportunity I will get.

I removed the calliper for a second time after I did the drivers side and this time it went back on a lot easier.

I will have a look on Friday and may put the old discs and pads back on just to see if the problem goes away. If I does I will know the issue is with the new stuff.

I also noticed that there was too much travel on the brake pedal after I put the new bits on. I am sure the problem is all related....

Cheers

[Nick1point9]

There will always be a lot of pedal travel the first few pumps of the brakes as you need to take up any slack between the pistons and the pads/discs so that's not surprising, unless you cannot achieve a firm pedal regardless of how often you pump the pedal.

[TROOPER88]

Nick1point9 said:

There will always be a lot of pedal travel the first few pumps of the brakes as you need to take up any slack between the pistons and the pads/discs so that's not surprising, unless you cannot achieve a firm pedal regardless of how often you pump the pedal.

Hi
Ok, just had another look.
Removed the wheel and all looked ok. Removed the calliper and greased the piston and the sleeves.

Put it back together and it is binding terribly. Drove down the road and there is smoke coming from the wheel as it is getting that hot.

I removed the wheel again and bled that corner just to make sure fluid is getting through and it is.

It locks up as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts which make me thing that the only thing it can be is the disc is at fault. Could it be too big somewhere?

I will put the old disc back on on the weekend and see what its like. It is strange as the drivers side is fine. The brake pedal is also not firming up now!

As I say it is as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts, the disc does turn before I tighten the bolts.

Cheers

[G600]

TROOPER88 said:

It locks up as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts which make me thing that the only thing it can be is the disc is at fault. Could it be too big somewhere?

As I say it is as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts, the disc does turn before I tighten the bolts.

Cheers

Hub of the disc too thin so now the wheel is hitting the calliper or maybe the bolts have gone further in and are hitting something the other side of the hub?

[Nick1point9]

firstly, stop driving it when you know there is a problem, that's not going to help. Take the two discs off and compare them; one may have a larger offset than the other. Are there any noises when you drive along? Try tightening up the wheel bolts without a wheel fitted so you can see what's going on (don't go very tight with them, just nip them up until it binds). Have you inspected the disc to see if there is any sign of damage on it (i.e. from rubbing on the caliper carrier or other parts)? If it's tightening up the wheel bolts that causes the bind then it's unlikely to be related to the caliper (it's not fluid getting to the caliper you needed to check it was whether fluid could return through the hose or not, had cracking off the nipple allowed the piston to return further then there would likely be a problem with the hose but it's not likely to be the problem given the info re wheel bolts).

Did both discs come in 1 box or were they supplied separately?

[Nick1point9]

G600 said:

TROOPER88 said:

It locks up as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts which make me thing that the only thing it can be is the disc is at fault. Could it be too big somewhere?

As I say it is as soon as I tighten the wheel bolts, the disc does turn before I tighten the bolts.

Cheers

Hub of the disc too thin so now the wheel is hitting the calliper or maybe the bolts have gone further in and are hitting something the other side of the hub?

Unlikely to cause heat and make it smoke though, which would imply two surfaces touching/rubbing, as opposed to the wheel hitting the caliper or a bolt hitting something behind the hub.

[G600]

Nick1point9 said:

Unlikely to cause heat and make it smoke though, which would imply two surfaces touching/rubbing, as opposed to the wheel hitting the caliper or a bolt hitting something behind the hub.

It could if it's rubbing against a solid area of the wheel as opposed to spokes.

[TROOPER88]

Mmmmmm, not sure

Just tried the old disc and pads on that side and its the same! Not sure what I have done.....

Its exactly the same, as soon as you nip the bolts up (I was trying with the wheel off and just putting a couple of bolts through the disc) it prevents the disc and hub from moving.

I tried pumping the brakes and although the pedal doen not feel that bad, the wheel remains stuck!

[Nick1point9]

TROOPER88 said:

Mmmmmm, not sure

Just tried the old disc and pads on that side and its the same! Not sure what I have done.....

Its exactly the same, as soon as you nip the bolts up (I was trying with the wheel off and just putting a couple of bolts through the disc) it prevents the disc and hub from moving.

I tried pumping the brakes and although the pedal doen not feel that bad, the wheel remains stuck!

Well if you've got the wheel off surely you can see where the contact is?

I don't want to be rude but are you especially mechanically minded? Earlier you were saying the caliper was very difficult to fit and now the problem seems to be tightening the wheel bolts, are you sure you've got the skills/knowledge/experience to be working on a braking system? After all it's a safety system!

G600 said:

Nick1point9 said:

Unlikely to cause heat and make it smoke though, which would imply two surfaces touching/rubbing, as opposed to the wheel hitting the caliper or a bolt hitting something behind the hub.

It could if it's rubbing against a solid area of the wheel as opposed to spokes.

touche!

Edited by Nick1point9 on Friday 31st May 15:28

[TROOPER88]

Nick1point9 said:

touche!

Edited by Nick1point9 on Friday 31st May 15:28

Hi
Having carried out 2 nut and bolt restorations single handed as well as a lot of other mechanical work in the past 2 years I would like think I have the skills, knowledge and experience to sort a brake issue on a mk2 Golf.

It is just one of those jobs where you think; 30 minutes and all will be done.

The reason for the posting was to see if anyone else has had a similar issue with a golf from this era.

I am working tonight but will have another look on Sunday.

I am thinking that the issue is down to where the pads are seated on the hub carrier. I will check with the other side but it would appear that as I tighten just the disc it is pressing tighter and tighter against the inner most pad. It is this that is causing the binding.

It is definately not anything to do with the wheel hitting something, this is 100% a friction issue.

Cheers

[Lew0113]

Hi did you ever get this problem resolved? And how did you do so?

[TROOPER88]

Lew0113 said:

Hi did you ever get this problem resolved? And how did you do so?

No

It was about 5 years ago!

Sorry I can not help