Steering wheel wobble that cannot be cured
Discussion
Hi guys.
I am at my wits end with this. After buying brand new wheels and tyres for my 1984 Ford Capri i started to get a wobble through the steering at around 55mph that just wont go away.
Wheels have been checked and balanced by four (yes i said 4) different people and it hasn't fixed the issue!
I did discover that the "new" tyres i bought along with the new alloys i purchased were actually defective (out of round) so have tried an entirely different set of alloys and tyres to see if it goes away, it has not.
The only thing that seems to sort of cure it is by going back to my original 13" wheels which have over 10 year old tyres on them.
The wobble almost entirely goes away but not 100%, theres still a very very minor wobble at lower speeds which fades away the faster you go.
All suspension components have been checked and are ok, i did have to replace a near side wheel bearing and strut top mount but this didnt help fix the problem either.
I have literally checked and tried everything else... only thing i have not tried is getting the alignment checked.
Could that be the cause of the issue?
Im thinking theres an already existing problem (like alignment hence the very slight wobble on the old 13" wheels and tyres) and adding alloys with bigger offsets and tyres are amplifying the problem.
Could that be it?
Thing is i didnt think alignments could cause a steering wheel wobble, information online about it is sketchy at best with the usual people arguing over who is right and wrong.
The car does tend to drift off to the left slightly if i let go of the steering wheel however...
Oh and the alloys i am trying are the correct ones for the car, so im not trying anything crazy like putting 22" Mercedes wheels on it or anything. I've tried a set of deep dish 13" alloys that are commonly used in the Ford scene for Capris and Escorts etc and now a set of 15" 7-spoke Ford rims off a Sierra with spacers to give them the correct offset for the Capri. The tyres on the 15" rims are like new, and came off a Capri.
Im literally at my wits end with this whole thing.
This has been an ongoing ordeal for over a month now and has cost me a fortune so far with no end in sight. I dont see why i should have to settle for naff looking old 13" factory rims when other people put different alloys on their cars and seemingly have no issues, at least not problems like this that seem to have no cure.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Worrying about this and forking out so much that i cant afford has really taken its toll on my health so im desperate for a solution.
Thanks.
I am at my wits end with this. After buying brand new wheels and tyres for my 1984 Ford Capri i started to get a wobble through the steering at around 55mph that just wont go away.
Wheels have been checked and balanced by four (yes i said 4) different people and it hasn't fixed the issue!
I did discover that the "new" tyres i bought along with the new alloys i purchased were actually defective (out of round) so have tried an entirely different set of alloys and tyres to see if it goes away, it has not.
The only thing that seems to sort of cure it is by going back to my original 13" wheels which have over 10 year old tyres on them.
The wobble almost entirely goes away but not 100%, theres still a very very minor wobble at lower speeds which fades away the faster you go.
All suspension components have been checked and are ok, i did have to replace a near side wheel bearing and strut top mount but this didnt help fix the problem either.
I have literally checked and tried everything else... only thing i have not tried is getting the alignment checked.
Could that be the cause of the issue?
Im thinking theres an already existing problem (like alignment hence the very slight wobble on the old 13" wheels and tyres) and adding alloys with bigger offsets and tyres are amplifying the problem.
Could that be it?
Thing is i didnt think alignments could cause a steering wheel wobble, information online about it is sketchy at best with the usual people arguing over who is right and wrong.
The car does tend to drift off to the left slightly if i let go of the steering wheel however...
Oh and the alloys i am trying are the correct ones for the car, so im not trying anything crazy like putting 22" Mercedes wheels on it or anything. I've tried a set of deep dish 13" alloys that are commonly used in the Ford scene for Capris and Escorts etc and now a set of 15" 7-spoke Ford rims off a Sierra with spacers to give them the correct offset for the Capri. The tyres on the 15" rims are like new, and came off a Capri.
Im literally at my wits end with this whole thing.
This has been an ongoing ordeal for over a month now and has cost me a fortune so far with no end in sight. I dont see why i should have to settle for naff looking old 13" factory rims when other people put different alloys on their cars and seemingly have no issues, at least not problems like this that seem to have no cure.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Worrying about this and forking out so much that i cant afford has really taken its toll on my health so im desperate for a solution.
Thanks.
NeoPrime85 said:
Im thinking theres an already existing problem (like alignment hence the very slight wobble on the old 13" wheels and tyres) and adding alloys with bigger offsets and tyres are amplifying the problem.
Could that be it?
That seems plausible - what are the dimensions of the old and new wheels?Could that be it?
Your symptoms are typical of excessive front wheel bearing play in cars of that era where wheel bearings are not sealed pre-loaded units but are adjustable whereby you nip them up, usually to about 25 ft lbs, and then back off until a split pin fits through a hole in the nut retainer so there's a tiny bit of clearance. What that clearance does is allow movement of the wheel and hub and the movement has a typical resonant frequency which almost always manifests at 55 mph.
The split pin arrangement is a bit of a lottery because there's quite a range of play as to how much you have to back off the hub nut until you find the nearest hole the split pin will line up with. If the nearest split pin hole is really close to where you have the hub nut tightened to 25 ft lbs then there's very little play and no wheel wobble. Further away and you get too much play and wheel wobble. It's nothing to do with wheel balance although this can set it off but it will happen with perfectly balanced wheels and tyres just as readily.
So here's what you do. Just as an experiment nip up the hub nuts and go for a quick drive without backing them off or the split pins fitted. You'll burn out the bearings if you drive like that for long but if it cures the wobble then you know the cause. Then you have to find a fix. New bearings, shims behind the nuts if the nearest split pin hole is a long way off to reduce the clearance. That's up to you. You can also try swapping the hub nuts and retainers from side to side of the car. You might find a better match of split pin hole and of course you can buy a bunch of new hub nuts and retainers or raid a breakers yard until you find nuts and retainers that let you fit the split pins with the minimum amount of clearance.
Get back to us when you have tried some of this.
The split pin arrangement is a bit of a lottery because there's quite a range of play as to how much you have to back off the hub nut until you find the nearest hole the split pin will line up with. If the nearest split pin hole is really close to where you have the hub nut tightened to 25 ft lbs then there's very little play and no wheel wobble. Further away and you get too much play and wheel wobble. It's nothing to do with wheel balance although this can set it off but it will happen with perfectly balanced wheels and tyres just as readily.
So here's what you do. Just as an experiment nip up the hub nuts and go for a quick drive without backing them off or the split pins fitted. You'll burn out the bearings if you drive like that for long but if it cures the wobble then you know the cause. Then you have to find a fix. New bearings, shims behind the nuts if the nearest split pin hole is a long way off to reduce the clearance. That's up to you. You can also try swapping the hub nuts and retainers from side to side of the car. You might find a better match of split pin hole and of course you can buy a bunch of new hub nuts and retainers or raid a breakers yard until you find nuts and retainers that let you fit the split pins with the minimum amount of clearance.
Get back to us when you have tried some of this.
Edited by Mignon on Saturday 20th May 20:01
So it cannot be cured...yet it sounds like you havent tried much, including alignment ?
You mentioned different wheels...but not the exact wheels you are using ? Nor type of tyre ?
Give some details
Exactly what wheels are they, what make, what tyres are fitted, sizes. Are they definitely balanced ? Is the wobble speed related ? road surface related ? other ?
You say the wheels are correct for the vehicle, that almost implies they are Ford wheels ? Although that's unlikely.
So are they actual wheels for that vehicle, or wheels you think or believe are correct fitment ? Are they correct offset, does the centre spigot align properly, are you using correct wheel fixings and torques ?
You mentioned a set of tyres were faulty....but these are new wheels ? Or not new ?
Have wheels been swapped front to rear, or left to right, or diagonal ? Does it make any difference ? Or tried 2 wheels only on one axle, and known good wheels on the other ?
You mention 13" and 15" as if you have maybe tried totally different sets...so have you ? and are you saying the problem still exists ? ie it is nothing to do with the wheels ? Or the problem did change with different wheels ?
You mentioned different wheels...but not the exact wheels you are using ? Nor type of tyre ?
Give some details
Exactly what wheels are they, what make, what tyres are fitted, sizes. Are they definitely balanced ? Is the wobble speed related ? road surface related ? other ?
You say the wheels are correct for the vehicle, that almost implies they are Ford wheels ? Although that's unlikely.
So are they actual wheels for that vehicle, or wheels you think or believe are correct fitment ? Are they correct offset, does the centre spigot align properly, are you using correct wheel fixings and torques ?
You mentioned a set of tyres were faulty....but these are new wheels ? Or not new ?
Have wheels been swapped front to rear, or left to right, or diagonal ? Does it make any difference ? Or tried 2 wheels only on one axle, and known good wheels on the other ?
You mention 13" and 15" as if you have maybe tried totally different sets...so have you ? and are you saying the problem still exists ? ie it is nothing to do with the wheels ? Or the problem did change with different wheels ?
You'll probably find it's not just one thing but cumulative.
Recently I had this with a 90's merc, everything checked out (suspension, wheel balance, tyres, wheels etc)
I started replacing worn/original stuff even though mechanics declared it "ok" we "barred" all the components and couldn't find any undue movement. I was doing one bit at a time, no single thing "fixed" it but each time we replaced something I found a marginal improvement. Result is a pleasant satisfactory drive.
Adjusted wheel bearings
Replaced ARB bushes
Alignment
Road force balance
Replaced steering damper
New discs/pads
Replaced strut mounts
Replaced shocks
Replaced control arms/ball joints/bushes (The guy who took the old ones off couldn't fault them)
Alignment
Replaced wheels and tyres (back to the original size, larger aftermarket wheels had been fitted)
Some good points from other posters. Beware some things catch you out, for instance I was given a good set of wheels that just needed a refurb complete with a set of wheel bolts. Only on further inspection the bolts were 12mm Radius head and the wheels required 14mm radius head!
It's years since I've run old Ford Cortinas how do the wheels centre?
Suspension/steering systems try to control minor oscillations, perished rubber bushes, worn or poorly adjusted components won't help. Add more stress, poor road surface, bigger heavier wheels, wider tyres and it extrapolates the whole thing.
Recently I had this with a 90's merc, everything checked out (suspension, wheel balance, tyres, wheels etc)
I started replacing worn/original stuff even though mechanics declared it "ok" we "barred" all the components and couldn't find any undue movement. I was doing one bit at a time, no single thing "fixed" it but each time we replaced something I found a marginal improvement. Result is a pleasant satisfactory drive.
Adjusted wheel bearings
Replaced ARB bushes
Alignment
Road force balance
Replaced steering damper
New discs/pads
Replaced strut mounts
Replaced shocks
Replaced control arms/ball joints/bushes (The guy who took the old ones off couldn't fault them)
Alignment
Replaced wheels and tyres (back to the original size, larger aftermarket wheels had been fitted)
Some good points from other posters. Beware some things catch you out, for instance I was given a good set of wheels that just needed a refurb complete with a set of wheel bolts. Only on further inspection the bolts were 12mm Radius head and the wheels required 14mm radius head!
It's years since I've run old Ford Cortinas how do the wheels centre?
Suspension/steering systems try to control minor oscillations, perished rubber bushes, worn or poorly adjusted components won't help. Add more stress, poor road surface, bigger heavier wheels, wider tyres and it extrapolates the whole thing.
I have almost exactly the same issue with my Sunbeam Lotus and still haven't manage to resolve it. I bought a brand new set of genuine 7x15" Minilites with new Bridgestone tyres and the wobble is persistent at 60/65mph. The center bore and offset is correct as the Sunbeam uses a slightly different size to an Escort although they are similar 4x108 pcd. They have been balanced 3 times but made no difference. I've gone through the front suspension and steering components to see if I can seen any reason but nothing is obvious. I did find one steering arm had some play, so changed out the rack and re tightened the wheel bearings but whilst its not as bad its still there.
Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
2172cc said:
I have almost exactly the same issue with my Sunbeam Lotus and still haven't manage to resolve it. I bought a brand new set of genuine 7x15" Minilites with new Bridgestone tyres and the wobble is persistent at 60/65mph. The center bore and offset is correct as the Sunbeam uses a slightly different size to an Escort although they are similar 4x108 pcd. They have been balanced 3 times but made no difference. I've gone through the front suspension and steering components to see if I can seen any reason but nothing is obvious. I did find one steering arm had some play, so changed out the rack and re tightened the wheel bearings but whilst its not as bad its still there.
Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
And again all the same things apply.Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
Are you sure the centre bore is a snug fit ?
Have you tried wheels front to rear etc ?
Have you tried different tyres ? Have you tried a different garage to balance them ? Some places are just morons.
Dirty wheel/hub faces are a possibility....but that should be visible ? Have they been dial gauged ?
GreenV8S said:
That seems plausible - what are the dimensions of the old and new wheels?
The old factory spec wheels are 6" x 13", not sure of the offset (im not the most mechanically minded of people so dont really know what all the numbers mean) but obviously they work fine as they came with the car from factory, with 185/70/r13 tyres.I have a set of these, and 95% of my problems go away when they are on the car with only the smallest of wobbles being felt through the steering at lower speeds.
The next set of alloys i tried were a 13" set of superlights with an offset of 7J with standard Capri 2.8I tyres (205/60/r13).
Tons of people use these wheels on their Capris with no problems, you can even go up to 7.5J and the only problem you might encounter is depending on the tyres you have they can foul the arches, and even though that tyre size is typically used for the 2.8i models (mine is a 2.0 s) you can use those tyres on the lower spec models and you shouldn't have any issues.
I am part of a Capri forum and i checked all this before buying these alloys and tyres and was assured all would be fine compatibility wise.
However with these wheels and tyres on i get a bad steering wobble at higher speeds, it comes on at 55 and never goes away, ive blasted down motorways to test it.
This wheel and tyre combo have been checked and balanced by FOUR different tyre garages at great cost to myself and it hasn't helped one bit. I have been given a refund for the tyres i bought for these alloys as they were out of round, figured that was the problem but...
I tried another set of wheels and tyres just to be certain, they are 15" Ford Sierra wheels that look like the 280 Brooklands wheels, only they have spacers to give them the correct offset for the Capri or else they rub on the front struts. With these on the car guess what? Wobble is even more severe than it was with the other alloys and it comes on at 40 mph now!
Mignon said:
Your symptoms are typical of excessive front wheel bearing play in cars of that era where wheel bearings are not sealed pre-loaded units but are adjustable whereby you nip them up, usually to about 25 ft lbs, and then back off until a split pin fits through a hole in the nut retainer so there's a tiny bit of clearance. What that clearance does is allow movement of the wheel and hub and the movement has a typical resonant frequency which almost always manifests at 55 mph.
The split pin arrangement is a bit of a lottery because there's quite a range of play as to how much you have to back off the hub nut until you find the nearest hole the split pin will line up with. If the nearest split pin hole is really close to where you have the hub nut tightened to 25 ft lbs then there's very little play and no wheel wobble. Further away and you get too much play and wheel wobble. It's nothing to do with wheel balance although this can set it off but it will happen with perfectly balanced wheels and tyres just as readily.
So here's what you do. Just as an experiment nip up the hub nuts and go for a quick drive without backing them off or the split pins fitted. You'll burn out the bearings if you drive like that for long but if it cures the wobble then you know the cause. Then you have to find a fix. New bearings, shims behind the nuts if the nearest split pin hole is a long way off to reduce the clearance. That's up to you. You can also try swapping the hub nuts and retainers from side to side of the car. You might find a better match of split pin hole and of course you can buy a bunch of new hub nuts and retainers or raid a breakers yard until you find nuts and retainers that let you fit the split pins with the minimum amount of clearance.
Get back to us when you have tried some of this.
The front left bearing is brand new and should be adjusted properly, not certain about the right hand side though. This is not something i can mess about with as i have very limited mechanical knowledge and i will end up breaking something, but i'll mention it to my mechanic and see what he says, thanks.The split pin arrangement is a bit of a lottery because there's quite a range of play as to how much you have to back off the hub nut until you find the nearest hole the split pin will line up with. If the nearest split pin hole is really close to where you have the hub nut tightened to 25 ft lbs then there's very little play and no wheel wobble. Further away and you get too much play and wheel wobble. It's nothing to do with wheel balance although this can set it off but it will happen with perfectly balanced wheels and tyres just as readily.
So here's what you do. Just as an experiment nip up the hub nuts and go for a quick drive without backing them off or the split pins fitted. You'll burn out the bearings if you drive like that for long but if it cures the wobble then you know the cause. Then you have to find a fix. New bearings, shims behind the nuts if the nearest split pin hole is a long way off to reduce the clearance. That's up to you. You can also try swapping the hub nuts and retainers from side to side of the car. You might find a better match of split pin hole and of course you can buy a bunch of new hub nuts and retainers or raid a breakers yard until you find nuts and retainers that let you fit the split pins with the minimum amount of clearance.
Get back to us when you have tried some of this.
Edited by Mignon on Saturday 20th May 20:01
stevieturbo said:
So it cannot be cured...yet it sounds like you havent tried much, including alignment ?
You mentioned different wheels...but not the exact wheels you are using ? Nor type of tyre ?
Give some details
Exactly what wheels are they, what make, what tyres are fitted, sizes. Are they definitely balanced ? Is the wobble speed related ? road surface related ? other ?
You say the wheels are correct for the vehicle, that almost implies they are Ford wheels ? Although that's unlikely.
So are they actual wheels for that vehicle, or wheels you think or believe are correct fitment ? Are they correct offset, does the centre spigot align properly, are you using correct wheel fixings and torques ?
You mentioned a set of tyres were faulty....but these are new wheels ? Or not new ?
Have wheels been swapped front to rear, or left to right, or diagonal ? Does it make any difference ? Or tried 2 wheels only on one axle, and known good wheels on the other ?
You mention 13" and 15" as if you have maybe tried totally different sets...so have you ? and are you saying the problem still exists ? ie it is nothing to do with the wheels ? Or the problem did change with different wheels ?
See first reply above for details on wheels and tyres. You mentioned different wheels...but not the exact wheels you are using ? Nor type of tyre ?
Give some details
Exactly what wheels are they, what make, what tyres are fitted, sizes. Are they definitely balanced ? Is the wobble speed related ? road surface related ? other ?
You say the wheels are correct for the vehicle, that almost implies they are Ford wheels ? Although that's unlikely.
So are they actual wheels for that vehicle, or wheels you think or believe are correct fitment ? Are they correct offset, does the centre spigot align properly, are you using correct wheel fixings and torques ?
You mentioned a set of tyres were faulty....but these are new wheels ? Or not new ?
Have wheels been swapped front to rear, or left to right, or diagonal ? Does it make any difference ? Or tried 2 wheels only on one axle, and known good wheels on the other ?
You mention 13" and 15" as if you have maybe tried totally different sets...so have you ? and are you saying the problem still exists ? ie it is nothing to do with the wheels ? Or the problem did change with different wheels ?
I have tried everything to fix this including swapping wheels, back to front etc, changing tyre pressures changing the wheels for an entirely different set etc and all of that and nothing helps.
I have been fighting this for over a month, believe me i have tried everything short of replacing the whole front end.
I cant check torque settings because i dont have a torque wrench so im just doing the nuts up as tight as i can by hand with a breaker bar, this has never been a problem for me in the past so no reason to suspect it is now.
One of the tyre places did use a torque wrench to do the nuts up when they fitted the new alloys and tyres and the problem still persisted anyway so its not that.
I've even tried spigot rings on the set of minilight alloys i bought, even though the manufacturer told me they weren't necessary for these types of wheels on a Ford like this as the tapered nuts locate the rim when you do them up. Needless to say they didnt help one bit.
PositronicRay said:
You'll probably find it's not just one thing but cumulative.
Recently I had this with a 90's merc, everything checked out (suspension, wheel balance, tyres, wheels etc)
I started replacing worn/original stuff even though mechanics declared it "ok" we "barred" all the components and couldn't find any undue movement. I was doing one bit at a time, no single thing "fixed" it but each time we replaced something I found a marginal improvement. Result is a pleasant satisfactory drive.
Adjusted wheel bearings
Replaced ARB bushes
Alignment
Road force balance
Replaced steering damper
New discs/pads
Replaced strut mounts
Replaced shocks
Replaced control arms/ball joints/bushes (The guy who took the old ones off couldn't fault them)
Alignment
Replaced wheels and tyres (back to the original size, larger aftermarket wheels had been fitted)
Some good points from other posters. Beware some things catch you out, for instance I was given a good set of wheels that just needed a refurb complete with a set of wheel bolts. Only on further inspection the bolts were 12mm Radius head and the wheels required 14mm radius head!
It's years since I've run old Ford Cortinas how do the wheels centre?
Suspension/steering systems try to control minor oscillations, perished rubber bushes, worn or poorly adjusted components won't help. Add more stress, poor road surface, bigger heavier wheels, wider tyres and it extrapolates the whole thing.
All the bushes are ok, they've been checked by a mechanic. They are also polyurethane bushes so none should be perished and should last longer anyway.Recently I had this with a 90's merc, everything checked out (suspension, wheel balance, tyres, wheels etc)
I started replacing worn/original stuff even though mechanics declared it "ok" we "barred" all the components and couldn't find any undue movement. I was doing one bit at a time, no single thing "fixed" it but each time we replaced something I found a marginal improvement. Result is a pleasant satisfactory drive.
Adjusted wheel bearings
Replaced ARB bushes
Alignment
Road force balance
Replaced steering damper
New discs/pads
Replaced strut mounts
Replaced shocks
Replaced control arms/ball joints/bushes (The guy who took the old ones off couldn't fault them)
Alignment
Replaced wheels and tyres (back to the original size, larger aftermarket wheels had been fitted)
Some good points from other posters. Beware some things catch you out, for instance I was given a good set of wheels that just needed a refurb complete with a set of wheel bolts. Only on further inspection the bolts were 12mm Radius head and the wheels required 14mm radius head!
It's years since I've run old Ford Cortinas how do the wheels centre?
Suspension/steering systems try to control minor oscillations, perished rubber bushes, worn or poorly adjusted components won't help. Add more stress, poor road surface, bigger heavier wheels, wider tyres and it extrapolates the whole thing.
My ARB bushes are brand new and polyurethane
Cant do a road force balance as nobody near me does it and i heard it could be super expensive anyway so probably couldn't afford it.
Alignment is the only thing that hasn't been checked yet, but looking online it seems this wouldn't cause a steering wobble?
I dont know what a steering damper is, is it related to the steering rack? If so that was a new refurbished unit only a couple of years ago.
Discs and pads are brand new.
One strut top mount was knackered so i replaced it, made zero difference.
Shocks are old but are working perfectly, no reason to suspect they are the issue, my mechanic would have noticed a problem when he changed the strut top mount if they were faulty.
Control arms are fine, they were checked also.
The wheels centre via the tapered wheel nuts.
2172cc said:
I have almost exactly the same issue with my Sunbeam Lotus and still haven't manage to resolve it. I bought a brand new set of genuine 7x15" Minilites with new Bridgestone tyres and the wobble is persistent at 60/65mph. The center bore and offset is correct as the Sunbeam uses a slightly different size to an Escort although they are similar 4x108 pcd. They have been balanced 3 times but made no difference. I've gone through the front suspension and steering components to see if I can seen any reason but nothing is obvious. I did find one steering arm had some play, so changed out the rack and re tightened the wheel bearings but whilst its not as bad its still there.
Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
Yeah thats exactly the same problem as me. How strange. I see you didnt mention if you checked the alignment, maybe worth a shot if youve tried everything else?Went back to my original 6x13" wheels and 205/60 tyres a few weeks ago and guess what...........no more vibration.
The only thing I am now thinking is that the wheels are not seating 100% on the hub or that maybe I need different nuts, not sure. I could try the Minilites on my friends identical car and that should confirm it one way or another.
CoolHands said:
New discs. New hubs.
Discs are brand new. My mechanic would have said something if the hubs were knackered when he installed the new discs.So yeah, as you can all see im at a total loss as to what is causing this. Only thing left to check is the alignment but im not holding out hope for that based on stuff ive seen online.
I'm gonna recheck everything suspension and steering related for a third time tomorrow and then look into getting an alignment done, if that doesn't fix it i guess i'll have to settle for using the crappy factory spec alloys for the rest of the cars life. Cant understand why other people can put fancy alloys on their Capris and have no issues but i cant, seems ridiculous.
stevieturbo said:
And again all the same things apply.
Are you sure the centre bore is a snug fit ?
Have you tried wheels front to rear etc ?
Have you tried different tyres ? Have you tried a different garage to balance them ? Some places are just morons.
Dirty wheel/hub faces are a possibility....but that should be visible ? Have they been dial gauged ?
Yes , as far as I can see the center bore is right. I have a hub centric spacer which fits snugly.Are you sure the centre bore is a snug fit ?
Have you tried wheels front to rear etc ?
Have you tried different tyres ? Have you tried a different garage to balance them ? Some places are just morons.
Dirty wheel/hub faces are a possibility....but that should be visible ? Have they been dial gauged ?
Yes, I have swapped front to rear and side to side.
Not different tyres as they are brand new Bridgestone RE002's not budget specials but we're balanced at different garage's.
No not tried with a dial gauge but worth a look.
The alignment was done when I changed the steering rack.
capris where infamouse back in the day for warped hubs, get them checked,(saying that warped hubs/discs usually shows up under braking) you need a dial gauge to check propperly, the speed the wobble comes in is suspicious, most ballencing machines only acheive a certain speed, usually tyres are ballenced at around 60 MPH so are in "tune" at that speed, not wobbling at that speed meens nothing if the wheels or tyres are warped, i've seen flat spoted tryes (caused by long periods parked up in a garage) ballence fine up to 60 but get the vehical up to 90 and you cant see a thing due to the vibrations, i'd get the wheels on a ballencer and using a fixed point see if they are out of true, same with the tyres, you need a decent tyre shop who are willing to help find the issue not just reballence and send you on your way.
I've also seen many many new alloys that are out of true nowdays being new is no guarantee the item is fit for use, just looking at a bush and levering on it will not allways show an issue, change them, they dont cost a lot (just time), trust me from what you say you still loads to check, one Mk3 cortina i had in took me 3 weeks to fix and that tured out to be flat spoted tyres (only done 200 miles but 3 years on a car parked up), 2 out of true but brand new GB alloys and too many poly bushes taking out any vibration absorption capability of the chassis, it's rarey just the one thing (as said above) it's usually a combination of issue that on thier own wouldn't really be an issue, even after sorting the wheel tyre issue on the cortina i gave it back with the recomendation to fit rubber and never ever fully poly bush a road car, especialy an old one designed in the 60's where expected speeds (and customer expectations) where lower.
On an old ford poly bushes are not a help, the older style bearings naturaly have play and hense cause vibrations that polys will transmit to the chassis, personly i would fit new bearings, check the disc hub runout and go back to rubber bushes, polys are great on a track, not so great on the road but first get the whells on a ballencer and check for ovality and or out of true tyres, do this by EYE not the results the machine pumps out.
I've also seen many many new alloys that are out of true nowdays being new is no guarantee the item is fit for use, just looking at a bush and levering on it will not allways show an issue, change them, they dont cost a lot (just time), trust me from what you say you still loads to check, one Mk3 cortina i had in took me 3 weeks to fix and that tured out to be flat spoted tyres (only done 200 miles but 3 years on a car parked up), 2 out of true but brand new GB alloys and too many poly bushes taking out any vibration absorption capability of the chassis, it's rarey just the one thing (as said above) it's usually a combination of issue that on thier own wouldn't really be an issue, even after sorting the wheel tyre issue on the cortina i gave it back with the recomendation to fit rubber and never ever fully poly bush a road car, especialy an old one designed in the 60's where expected speeds (and customer expectations) where lower.
On an old ford poly bushes are not a help, the older style bearings naturaly have play and hense cause vibrations that polys will transmit to the chassis, personly i would fit new bearings, check the disc hub runout and go back to rubber bushes, polys are great on a track, not so great on the road but first get the whells on a ballencer and check for ovality and or out of true tyres, do this by EYE not the results the machine pumps out.
Edited by S0 What on Sunday 21st May 16:26
NeoPrime85 said:
if that doesn't fix it i guess i'll have to settle for using the crappy factory spec alloys for the rest of the cars life. Cant understand why other people can put fancy alloys on their Capris and have no issues but i cant, seems ridiculous.
Not sure your really cut out for this, how about a nice set of rostyles instead!PositronicRay said:
You mention your wheels are centred on the taper nuts, most wheel balancers use the wheel centre.
Do know which yours are using?
Almost no wheels rely on the nuts for centering when fitted to a car. Some may get away with an incorrect spigot, but there should always be a correct spigot fitment.Do know which yours are using?
NeoPrime85 said:
.
I've even tried spigot rings on the set of minilight alloys i bought, even though the manufacturer told me they weren't necessary for these types of wheels on a Ford like this as the tapered nuts locate the rim when you do them up. Needless to say they didnt help one
Alignment
The wheels centre via the tapered wheel nuts.
.
Also do not rule out brand new parts, plenty of poor quality stuff out there. I've even tried spigot rings on the set of minilight alloys i bought, even though the manufacturer told me they weren't necessary for these types of wheels on a Ford like this as the tapered nuts locate the rim when you do them up. Needless to say they didnt help one
Alignment
The wheels centre via the tapered wheel nuts.
.
S0 What said:
capris where infamouse back in the day for warped hubs, get them checked,(saying that warped hubs/discs usually shows up under braking) you need a dial gauge to check propperly, the speed the wobble comes in is suspicious, most ballencing machines only acheive a certain speed, usually tyres are ballenced at around 60 MPH so are in "tune" at that speed, not wobbling at that speed meens nothing if the wheels or tyres are warped, i've seen flat spoted tryes (caused by long periods parked up in a garage) ballence fine up to 60 but get the vehical up to 90 and you cant see a thing due to the vibrations, i'd get the wheels on a ballencer and using a fixed point see if they are out of true, same with the tyres, you need a decent tyre shop who are willing to help find the issue not just reballence and send you on your way.
I've also seen many many new alloys that are out of true nowdays being new is no guarantee the item is fit for use, just looking at a bush and levering on it will not allways show an issue, change them, they dont cost a lot (just time), trust me from what you say you still loads to check, one Mk3 cortina i had in took me 3 weeks to fix and that tured out to be flat spoted tyres (only done 200 miles but 3 years on a car parked up), 2 out of true but brand new GB alloys and too many poly bushes taking out any vibration absorption capability of the chassis, it's rarey just the one thing (as said above) it's usually a combination of issue that on thier own wouldn't really be an issue, even after sorting the wheel tyre issue on the cortina i gave it back with the recomendation to fit rubber and never ever fully poly bush a road car, especialy an old one designed in the 60's where expected speeds (and customer expectations) where lower.
On an old ford poly bushes are not a help, the older style bearings naturaly have play and hense cause vibrations that polys will transmit to the chassis, personly i would fit new bearings, check the disc hub runout and go back to rubber bushes, polys are great on a track, not so great on the road but first get the whells on a ballencer and check for ovality and or out of true tyres, do this by EYE not the results the machine pumps out.
I have heard a couple of people mention poly bushes arent good for road cars. Its just strange that this issue only comes up if i put different wheels on the car, as i said the factory spec 13" rims (which dont require spigot rings and have NEVER needed anything but the nuts to centre them, seriously just go on any Capri forum and ask and the answer will be the same, you dont need them) dont cause any issue, the wobble is 95% absent on the factory wheels. I've also seen many many new alloys that are out of true nowdays being new is no guarantee the item is fit for use, just looking at a bush and levering on it will not allways show an issue, change them, they dont cost a lot (just time), trust me from what you say you still loads to check, one Mk3 cortina i had in took me 3 weeks to fix and that tured out to be flat spoted tyres (only done 200 miles but 3 years on a car parked up), 2 out of true but brand new GB alloys and too many poly bushes taking out any vibration absorption capability of the chassis, it's rarey just the one thing (as said above) it's usually a combination of issue that on thier own wouldn't really be an issue, even after sorting the wheel tyre issue on the cortina i gave it back with the recomendation to fit rubber and never ever fully poly bush a road car, especialy an old one designed in the 60's where expected speeds (and customer expectations) where lower.
On an old ford poly bushes are not a help, the older style bearings naturaly have play and hense cause vibrations that polys will transmit to the chassis, personly i would fit new bearings, check the disc hub runout and go back to rubber bushes, polys are great on a track, not so great on the road but first get the whells on a ballencer and check for ovality and or out of true tyres, do this by EYE not the results the machine pumps out.
Edited by S0 What on Sunday 21st May 16:26
No wobble, no nothing, its straight and true with only the most infinitesimal of wobbles at low speeds which soon goes away the faster you go, considering the tyres on these rims are well over a decade old this could be due to them.
Again not sure what else to check at this stage, every component has been checked and double checked and it all checks out.
Theres no wobble under braking, no knocks or noises when going over bumps, the shocks absorb everything nicely like they should, i dont get any tyre screech when going round corners, tyres dont have any flat spots, nothing.
Ive had tyre balancing shops check the aftermarket rims i bought, none are buckled or anything like that.
I cant just go to one of these places and ask for service they dont offer or expect them to take the extra time required to try and diagnose a niche problem they are not qualified to solve and i dont have the tools or facilities or the expertise to try it myself, so what else but ask for advice online can i do?
This has already cost me a fortune so far with no results, i cant keep throwing money at it with no guarantee of a fix, im not that well off, and as i said this is having an effect on my health constantly worrying about the problem.
What does "run out" mean?
Like i said one of the bearings is brand new, haven't checked the other so will have that looked at by my friend who is a mechanic, but a solution to this issue has stumped him as well and he's the smartest mechanic i know.
I'll mention this possible poly bush issue to my mechanic and go over all the components including checking the old wheel bearing again but it really just feels like im chasing my own tail with this by repeating the same checks over and over again hoping for different results.
CoolHands said:
its not a case of hubs being 'knackered'. They can be out of true. But you carry on 
Whats the difference? A defective component is a defective component, no?PositronicRay said:
Not sure your really cut out for this, how about a nice set of rostyles instead!
Gladly, but they will likely cause a wobble as well given how this whole nightmare has gone so far.stevieturbo said:
Almost no wheels rely on the nuts for centering when fitted to a car. Some may get away with an incorrect spigot, but there should always be a correct spigot fitment.
Ive never had a car thats had that as a thing. Again, if i put my old factory wheels and tyres on and just use the nuts to centre them, they work perfectly fine. Ask on any Capri forum, you'll get the same answer. If they required anything else, my mechanic would have mentioned it long before now. I even had the manufacturer of these alloys tell me themselves that they centre with the nuts and nothing else, they even sent me spigot rings to try and they made absolutely zero difference. Sorry to anyone if i sound snippy with my replies. Im just beyond frustrated with this whole thing and just want it to end. Im not mentally well at the best of times, so this stress and unknown and feeling of helplessness despite my best and hardest efforts and nothing helping is seriously making me ill and i just want it to go away.
Edited by NeoPrime85 on Sunday 21st May 19:31
Balancing centreless wheels, not everyone understands this, worth a shot.
https://www.hometyre.co.uk/services/wheel-balancin...
https://passionford.com/forum/technical-help-q-and...
https://www.hometyre.co.uk/services/wheel-balancin...
https://passionford.com/forum/technical-help-q-and...
PositronicRay said:
Balancing centreless wheels, not everyone understands this, worth a shot.
https://www.hometyre.co.uk/services/wheel-balancin...
https://passionford.com/forum/technical-help-q-and...
Sorry, the tyres and wheels have been balanced 4 times by three different shops already, why do it again at further cost when its not solving the issue?https://www.hometyre.co.uk/services/wheel-balancin...
https://passionford.com/forum/technical-help-q-and...
Am i missing something?
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