Hot judder on new car. Please help!

[Bluedog1]

It's a 2017 Aston Martin Rapide with little over 1k miles on it.

When the brakes are cold, everything is fine. But once they get warmed up, judder happens.

It ONLY happens when I brake gently during heavy traffic(go-stop-go situation) at very slow speed. I feel vibration/shudder coming fron the front. And it gets worse when I slow down while turing the steering wheel, specially to the left(heavy shuddering and even people outside can hear it loud).

When I brake from any other speed, car stops very well without any vibration, shudder, judder. Perfectly fine.

I took it to the local dealer and they are aware of this judder symptom but they were told by AM tech center it's normal. I just don't get it.

I've been driving all kinds of cars for almost 30 years and never had this low speed hot judder. And the car is new!

Any opinion will be appreciated. Thanks much.

Ryan

[PositronicRay]

Try a couple of hard stops 60-10 (don't actually come to standstill) to clean them up.

[Bluedog1]

PositronicRay said:

Try a couple of hard stops 60-10 (don't actually come to standstill) to clean them up.

Thank you. I will try it to see whether it takes care of the problem.

[E-bmw]

As above, you have a pretty quick & heavy car so the brakes need to be pretty sh!t-hot, and that probably means that the pads are a bit harder than most OE pad manufacturers make them & so, as is described above, a good pad face clean every now & again could be the order of the day.

[Bluedog1]

E-bmw said:

As above, you have a pretty quick & heavy car so the brakes need to be pretty sh!t-hot, and that probably means that the pads are a bit harder than most OE pad manufacturers make them & so, as is described above, a good pad face clean every now & again could be the order of the day.

I had this judder since the car is new. So, I wanted to give it little harder braking when I went to the track day. But after that, it still has this judder. Like I said above, it ONLY happens when I try to stop at slow speed(under 20~30 m/h) during slow city driving. So, I know it's not the rotor issue.

I felt like the OEM pads are hard and sticky and braking pressure is designed for more of hard braking.

I will try hard braking test first to see how it goes.

Thanks.

[superlightr]

Bluedog1 said:

E-bmw said:

As above, you have a pretty quick & heavy car so the brakes need to be pretty sh!t-hot, and that probably means that the pads are a bit harder than most OE pad manufacturers make them & so, as is described above, a good pad face clean every now & again could be the order of the day.

I had this judder since the car is new. So, I wanted to give it little harder braking when I went to the track day. But after that, it still has this judder. Like I said above, it ONLY happens when I try to stop at slow speed(under 20~30 m/h) during slow city driving. So, I know it's not the rotor issue.

I felt like the OEM pads are hard and sticky and braking pressure is designed for more of hard braking.

I will try hard braking test first to see how it goes.

Thanks.

you did a track day with a new car and under 1000 miles? That's brave.

I understood its better to bed the brakes in over about 1000 miles then give it some welly, certainly would not have done a track day. How many miles when you did the track day?

My DB9.2 has CC brakes - is your Rapide the same or steel?

Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 8th May 15:49

[Bluedog1]

superlightr said:

you did a track day with a new car and under 1000 miles? That's brave.

I understood its better to bed the brakes in over about 1000 miles then give it some welly, certainly would not have done a track day. How many miles when you did the track day?

My DB9.2 has CC brakes - is your Rapide the same or steel?

Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 8th May 15:49

I got an invitation for the track day(just last month) that came with free hotel room and food, so why not. But considering it's a new car, I avoided any full braking or accelleration. I just wanted to see how this big 4dr behaves.

Mine is a Shadow Edition with extra HP but it comes with reg brakes. I think CC brakes are little too much for this type of 4dr vehicle.

Edited by Bluedog1 on Tuesday 8th May 15:59

Edited by Bluedog1 on Tuesday 8th May 16:07

[PositronicRay]

Your track day braking may still have been too progressive.

I'm talking full on, emergency stops to 10mph accelerate back to 60 then another go. It may not help in which case new brakes may be the answer. Sometimes not enough or the wrong type of miles to keep brakes in good order.

[james_gt3rs]

Best to give them an absolute beasting and report back, hope you like the smell of hot brakes

[Bluedog1]

PositronicRay said:

Your track day braking may still have been too progressive.

I'm talking full on, emergency stops to 10mph accelerate back to 60 then another go. It may not help in which case new brakes may be the answer. Sometimes not enough or the wrong type of miles to keep brakes in good order.

Yeah, it was too early. But this problem was there even the car was new.

I will give it a try but my concern is that it may be just original design matter. I've talked with another tech shop that dealt with this problem with several AM vehicles and they couldn't fix it. I may need new pads if your method doesn't work.

Edited by Bluedog1 on Wednesday 9th May 01:21

[Bluedog1]

james_gt3rs said:

Best to give them an absolute beasting and report back, hope you like the smell of hot brakes

Honestly, I'm little hesitant about doing it since it's still new car. Anyway I will post the result once I try it.

[E-bmw]

What? You are hesitant about braking hard?

Hope nobody walks out in front of you then!

[tapkaJohnD]

You have bought a car that costs £150,000, so special and expensive that they offer you track days with free hotel accomodation, but they won't listen when you have juddering brakes? Might as well buy a Dacia Sandero.

John

[james_gt3rs]

Bluedog1 said:

Honestly, I'm little hesitant about doing it since it's still new car. Anyway I will post the result once I try it.

I wouldn't worry, the car will have certainly been developed on a circuit at some point so you're not doing anything that will break it.

[Martin350]

These symptoms sound to me like pad transference on the disc.
It can happen after they've got hot and then the car is parked. Can you see a vaguely pad shaped 'shadow' on the discs?

You might be lucky and scrub it off using the brakes but I would suspect either new discs or skimming the current discs would be the solution.

[Bluedog1]

tapkaJohnD said:

You have bought a car that costs £150,000, so special and expensive that they offer you track days with free hotel accomodation, but they won't listen when you have juddering brakes? Might as well buy a Dacia Sandero.

John

Actually, they did communicate with AM hdq but they were told that it's normal and not to touch it. So, as an official A/S center, they told me they did everything they could within the warranty.

[Bluedog1]

Martin350 said:

These symptoms sound to me like pad transference on the disc.
It can happen after they've got hot and then the car is parked. Can you see a vaguely pad shaped 'shadow' on the discs?

You might be lucky and scrub it off using the brakes but I would suspect either new discs or skimming the current discs would be the solution.

I hear you. I suspected that too. But I didn't see any mark on the disc and A/S center said same thing. They checked the rotor surface and they were even and no problem. I will do little more digging.

[GreenV8S]

Have you been able to find anyone who knows what happens when the judder occurs, or find out for yourself?

One option would be to strap a GoPro or similar where you can see the hub / upright and see whether there is any significant movement or flex when the judder occurs. It's possible this is the result of some sort of suspension wind-up rather than a problem in the pad/rotor interface.

[Bluedog1]

GreenV8S said:

Have you been able to find anyone who knows what happens when the judder occurs, or find out for yourself?

One option would be to strap a GoPro or similar where you can see the hub / upright and see whether there is any significant movement or flex when the judder occurs. It's possible this is the result of some sort of suspension wind-up rather than a problem in the pad/rotor interface.

I've contacted Aston Martin A/S center and another tech shop that has quite experience with same vehicles. They were aware of the this judder symptom.

They said it usually happens when the car is in heavy traffic go-stop-so situation with hot engine+brakes. But Aston Martin didn't perceive this judder as a technical problem after lengthy communications. So, naturally there is no fix or adjustment issued by AM even though this car is been around for a while.

I also have the center check the suspension area as well and eveything was fine.