How to release rear drum on Peugeot 107?

[TM]

Its been a long time since I had to mess with drum brakes, but my daughters car has a dragging/sticking rear shoe and several attempts to get the drum off to investigate have got me nowhere. I've tapped, smacked and levered the drum and it now is free to rotate but only moves away from the hub a mm or so. I reckon its caught on the actual shoes as it feels springy. In the old days you could poke a screwdriver into a hole and rewind the self adjusting star wheel, but not so on these cars.

I put it all back together as it seemed to be 'fixed' but yesterday I moved it on the drive and it seems to be sticking again.

Any idea how to get the drum off, anyone?

[tapkaJohnD]

No one?

TM, I can't answer this, but if I were in your position, I'd buy the workshop manual.
There is a Haynes one as well as the Official. The latter is available as a 'free' download of a PDF version, but from previous experience I'd make sure that my PC's firewall was working well before I'd try those.

Good luck!
John

[TM]

Hi John, I had a squint at the manual in Halfords and it simply describes taking it off as if in pristine condition, no mention of any issues that may arise such as not being able to get to the star wheel. I did see online that it can sometimes be accessed via a bolt hole, but I've tried and it's impossible to see anything so I'm poking about in the dark really, which could release a spring or such, then I'm buggered.

I'm loathe to take it to a garage for this, but could be the only option.

[paintman]

A quick google suggests that the 107 rear drum is also shared with the Toyota Aygo.
This comes up showing a couple of bolts being used to remove the drum.
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=b2l46X...

Slightly different internal mechanism but IIRC rear drum removal on the 306's we had (3 at one time) was also often a PITA unless I used one of this type of puller:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/291853664241

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 6th November 16:04

[Penelope Stopit]

I am stuck with the same problem, I have a secondhand Peugeot 306 rear beam off car to recondition and it has drum brakes. I removed the hub nut's and the handbrake was backed off, there is no way that the drums would come off by hand, I couldn't turn the adjuster wheels on either of them, they could be seen through a wheel bolt hole, I used a big puller and it ripped the drum off and wrecked the adjuster, trying the second one I used the puller but this time had unbolted the wheel cylinder, the drum came off so far at an angle rather than straight off and the cylinder was being drawn through with the shoes, I leathered the hell out of it and broke lucky in getting it all apart without breaking the adjuster

I have read that a good method is to bolt the wheel back on once the hub nut has been removed and waggle the drum off by heaving on the wheel

Now I have the problem of stripping my cars drums down like you have but at least I can try fitting a wheel back on and heaving on it

You could try the wheel on method

[Mignon]

Get a 4 lb lump hammer and beat the drum like it's a wife who burnt the dinner. That generally knocks the brake shoes back a bit and lets the drum slide off.

[TM]

Hi chaps. All advice gratefully taken.

I saw the bolt method as I trawled the web after I posted but as the car is not on the drive at the moment I cant say if it works or not.

Not sure about the puller tool, surely that would need to be pulling the drum away from the hub? Looking at the pix on ebay it fits to the wheel bolts so is then effectively clamping the drum to the hub?

I've already done the beating it with a hammer routine (my default practice if WD40 can't be used) , which loosened it but wont allow it to actually come completely off.

Looks llike the best idea is to try the ' bolt through the little holes to push the drum off ' method, however as the drum is ( or was) already loose/spinning but perhaps stuck on a lip, this may just rip the shoes off too. I'll let you know.

Damn silly design!

Edited by TM on Tuesday 6th November 15:24

[Grayedout]

I would budget for a new set of shoes and if the drum is so worn that it's created a lip that is now preventing it from coming off then budget for a new pair of drums as well!

[Mignon]

I remember trying to get my first set of drums off a car when I was a callow youth of 19 or so. A Morris Marina I think. I was outside my uncle's workshop in rural Derbyshire and I poked and pulled at the first drum rather feebly and scratched my head as to why it wouldn't come off. A wizened little old man about 5 feet tall and 140 years old walking his collie dog stopped to watch me in some amusement. "Tha havin' trouble lad?" he asked. I indicated in the affirmative. I said I didn't know what was holding the drum on.

"Tha's nowt but ignorance holding it on lad" he replied. He asked me to fetch a hammer. I went into the workshop and came back with a little claw hammer. "Nae lad, get a proper hammer". I came back with a much bigger one. He took it and beat the drum like a man possessed. I watched in horror expecting the cast iron to shatter. Then he put the hammer down and the drum just fell off as he pulled it. "Tha can do t'other side thasel now lad eh?" and he wandered off up the hill with his dog. I was slightly less violent than he'd been but did in fact succeed.

It took me many years before I worked out what he'd meant by "nowt but ignorance". At the time I thought he meant the drum was just being stubborn. One day I suddenly twigged it had meant I didn't know my arse from my elbow.

[paintman]

TM said:

Not sure about the puller tool, surely that would need to be pulling the drum away from the hub? Looking at the pix on ebay it fits to the wheel bolts so is then effectively clamping the drum to the hub?

Edited by TM on Tuesday 6th November 15:24

Good point. The 306 with rear drum brakes (ours) the drum c/w the bearings comes off.

ETA For the same reason you won't be able to use the 'refit the wheel & waggle it' method.

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 6th November 16:43

[paintman]

Penelope Stopit said:

I am stuck with the same problem, I have a secondhand Peugeot 306 rear beam off car to recondition and it has drum brakes. I removed the hub nut's and the handbrake was backed off, there is no way that the drums would come off by hand, I couldn't turn the adjuster wheels on either of them, they could be seen through a wheel bolt hole, I used a big puller and it ripped the drum off and wrecked the adjuster, trying the second one I used the puller but this time had unbolted the wheel cylinder, the drum came off so far at an angle rather than straight off and the cylinder was being drawn through with the shoes, I leathered the hell out of it and broke lucky in getting it all apart without breaking the adjuster

I have read that a good method is to bolt the wheel back on once the hub nut has been removed and waggle the drum off by heaving on the wheel

Now I have the problem of stripping my cars drums down like you have but at least I can try fitting a wheel back on and heaving on it

You could try the wheel on method

Bit late, but I've just dug out my old Haynes from when we had ours.
As yours is the rear drum braked variety then they are either Girling or Bendix. (IIRC all ours were Girling) & the drums are removed by taking the wheel bearing nut off as the bearings are fitted to the drum. (If it has rear discs I've no experience of them)
The handbrake should be fully off.
They should then come off but tapping or a puller may be necessary if the bearings are tight on the stub axle. Use puller on the bolt holes, not a claw type on the edges of the drum as for some reason that I don't understand it doesn't work.

If they won't come off it goes on to say the following
Fully slacken the handbrake cable to obtain maximum free play in the cable.
The trailing shoe on each drum is operated by the handbrake cable & on both types has a lever mounted to it which is pulled by the cable to apply the handbrake. This lever has a small lump on it (the 'stop peg') which sits against the inner edge of the bit of the shoe the springs slot into(the 'web')
Access the lever via one of the wheel bolt holes & use a rod/screwdriver to push this lever towards the brake backplate until the stop peg slides behind the web allowing the shoes to retract fully.
At which point it should come off - subject to sticky bearing as above.

ETA If that & the waggling a wheel method fails then Land Rover Special Tool No1 followed if necessary by Land Rover Special Tool No2 should be brought to bear!

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 6th November 16:41

[Penelope Stopit]

paintman said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I am stuck with the same problem, I have a secondhand Peugeot 306 rear beam off car to recondition and it has drum brakes. I removed the hub nut's and the handbrake was backed off, there is no way that the drums would come off by hand, I couldn't turn the adjuster wheels on either of them, they could be seen through a wheel bolt hole, I used a big puller and it ripped the drum off and wrecked the adjuster, trying the second one I used the puller but this time had unbolted the wheel cylinder, the drum came off so far at an angle rather than straight off and the cylinder was being drawn through with the shoes, I leathered the hell out of it and broke lucky in getting it all apart without breaking the adjuster

I have read that a good method is to bolt the wheel back on once the hub nut has been removed and waggle the drum off by heaving on the wheel

Now I have the problem of stripping my cars drums down like you have but at least I can try fitting a wheel back on and heaving on it

You could try the wheel on method

Bit late, but I've just dug out my old Haynes from when we had ours.
As yours is the rear drum braked variety then they are either Girling or Bendix. IIRC all ours were Girling & the drums are removed by taking the wheel bearing nut off as the bearings are fitted to the drum. (If it has rear discs I've no experience of them)
The handbrake should be fully off.
They should then come off but tapping or a puller may be necessary if the bearings are tight on the stub axle. Use puller on the bolt holes, not a claw type on the edges of the drum as for some reason that I don't understand it doesn't work.

If they won't come off it goes on to say the following
Fully slacken the handbrake cable to obtain maximum free play in the cable.
The trailing shoe on each drum is operated by the handbrake cable & on both types has a lever mounted to it which is pulled by the cable to apply the handbrake. This lever has a small lump on it (the 'stop peg') which sits against the inner edge of the bit of the shoe the springs slot into(the 'web')
Access the lever via one of the wheel bolt holes & use a rod/screwdriver to push this lever towards the brake backplate until the stop peg slides behind the web allowing the shoes to retract fully.
At which point it should come off - subject to sticky bearing as above.

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 6th November 16:33

Brilliant post, thank you very much, I've got the manual and did read some of it, I did see that the stop peg was against the shoe and couldn't get it behind the shoe(I thought the manual instructions were wrong as it didn't seem to want to budge)
I also used a claw puller

I am the Idiot of the day and can't thank you enough, please accept a pretend beer on me, have a good day

PS. At least I can strip the car down without destroying everything (well maybe)

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 6th November 16:47

[paintman]

Sorry it was too late to save the breakages.
Fingers crossed it all goes back together! (and works)

[Penelope Stopit]

paintman said:

Sorry it was too late to save the breakages.
Fingers crossed it all goes back together! (and works)

Please, what's done is done and at least it was on an off the car secondhand beam, I may even buy new adjusters for this beam
The thing is I now have faith in your knowledge and am confident in succeeding with the drums on my car

Electrics is what I play with, you would howl at my mistakes when doing auto technicians work (if I told you some of them) Knowing how vehicles work is one thing, fixing them....you've got to be clever

Yammas, Cheers. Who do I send the cheque to?

[TM]

Unfortunately the 107 has no such access hole or any method of getting access.

[tapkaJohnD]

Nice story, Mignon!

He wasn't being rude, he was being Yorkshire!
John

[paintman]

TM said:

Unfortunately the 107 has no such access hole or any method of getting access.

Are you sure? Pics of 107 shoes show an identical system of handbrake operation to the 306. This link shows the shoes the wrong way round to the way they are in the drum - the silver bar is behind the web & is on the trailing shoe which is the one to the rear of the car with one on each side. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-107-Rear-Brake-...
The handbrake cable slots into the piece at the bottom of this bit.
If you look up on the pic you can see a small rectangular depression which is the stop peg I talked about earlier.
This sits against the web of the shoe when fitted & needs to be pushed towards the backplate to let the she slide over it giving more free play.
From my earlier 306 post:
"Fully slacken the handbrake cable to obtain maximum free play in the cable.
The trailing shoe on each drum is operated by the handbrake cable & has a lever mounted to it which is pulled by the cable to apply the handbrake. This lever has a small lump on it (the 'stop peg') which sits against the inner edge of the bit of the shoe the springs slot into(the 'web')
Access the lever via one of the wheel bolt holes & use a rod/screwdriver to push this lever towards the brake backplate until the stop peg slides behind the web allowing the shoes to retract fully."

There's no specific access hole on the 306 either, you go through one of the wheel bolt holes. Small torch & look through the hole as you rotate the drum. On the offside with you facing the car the hole will need to be around 7 to 8 o'clock & on the nearside around 4 to 5.

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 6th November 22:55

[TM]

OK, thanks for that. I couldn't see anything before so when I'm able to get time to get back on it I'll have another look. There has to be a way.

[TM]

Tried the 'two bolts and push the drum off' routine and it iisn't working as the drum is springing against the shoes. Tried the 'poking a screwdriver and pushing the lever off the peg' idea and not working either. I'm expecting it to 'click' off and release the shoes but there is no movement at all, the lever jjust seems to flex as I push it towards the backplate.

Its going to be a destructive process it seems......new shoes etc and hope no damage to anything else in there.

[TM]

Got the drum offf now and there is no lip but a very slight score, not enough to cause an issue but what I did find is that the piston is only working on one side, the tralling shoe. Its not pushing out eqiually, in fact it's quite seized on the leading shoe.

I can see the star wheel now, it could possibly be accessed via a bolt hole at around the 1oclock if needed but operates via a thin piece of spring metal that would need to be levered away first. Not easy to do through a bolt hole.

Looking for a local stockist of a piston now.