How to release rear drum on Peugeot 107?
Discussion
I meant cylinder, I just called it a piston because of the one that was seized.
Got a couple in case the other side needs doing as I now notice that the N/S wheel is slightly resisitant to turnng by hand so will be looking at that tomorrow. It frees up after a few taps with a hammer but after a drive, it is sticky again.
The whole saga of not being able to get the drum off seems to be down to the fact that the wheel cylinder leading piston was seized in the semi applied state, so although a few whacks with a hammer seemed to free it, it must have moved it a very slight amount, enough to turn the drum by hand. Afer applying the handbrake or brakes, it all centred and wouldnt turn again.
Slacking of the handbrake cable as much as possible, then tapping the drum a few times prior to using two bolts in the threaded holes in the drum was enough to get the drum off in the end. I was prepared for destruction so just kept turning the bolts and little by little the drum came off. It was springy and tight, but it came off.
Got a couple in case the other side needs doing as I now notice that the N/S wheel is slightly resisitant to turnng by hand so will be looking at that tomorrow. It frees up after a few taps with a hammer but after a drive, it is sticky again.
The whole saga of not being able to get the drum off seems to be down to the fact that the wheel cylinder leading piston was seized in the semi applied state, so although a few whacks with a hammer seemed to free it, it must have moved it a very slight amount, enough to turn the drum by hand. Afer applying the handbrake or brakes, it all centred and wouldnt turn again.
Slacking of the handbrake cable as much as possible, then tapping the drum a few times prior to using two bolts in the threaded holes in the drum was enough to get the drum off in the end. I was prepared for destruction so just kept turning the bolts and little by little the drum came off. It was springy and tight, but it came off.
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I have. It works on one side but not the other. I'm about to go out and take it apart to see what I can see, but I'm just wondering about the star wheel adjuster which I assume automatically adjusts to compensate for shoe wear.
Does it play a part in the handbrake action because the brakes themselves seem ok? (not been tested on a rolling road though)
Does it play a part in the handbrake action because the brakes themselves seem ok? (not been tested on a rolling road though)
Edited by TM on Wednesday 14th November 09:34
TM said:
I have. It works on one side but not the other. I'm about to go out and take it apart to see what I can see, but I'm just wondering about the star wheel adjuster which I assume automatically adjusts to compensate for shoe wear.
Does it play a part in the handbrake action because the brakes themselves seem ok? (not been tested on a rolling road though)
I suggest you wait a short while for someone more in the know to advise you here on thisDoes it play a part in the handbrake action because the brakes themselves seem ok? (not been tested on a rolling road though)
Edited by TM on Wednesday 14th November 09:34
Yes as far as I'm aware the handbrake does have something to do with adjusting the brakes but.......I haven't yet rebuilt my brakes hence I'm not 100% sure about the whole set-up
paintman may be along shortly and definitely knows the job inside out, I would wait for paintman to post or someone else in the know
Paintmans input would be useful.
I've just been out and the handbrake lever works fine ( observed with the aid of a mirror as i'm operating it inside the car). It operates the rear ( trailing) shoes which would then push the leading shoe via the adjuster rod. Of course this only happens with the drum in place because then as the trailing shoe pushes against the drum it can only go so far then the other shoe pushes the other way vvia the rod. Thats how I see it anyway.
I therefore slackened everything off, wedged the top of the shoes open or else the starwheel (which is a flimsy thing) won't budge and then adjusted the starwheel to roughly where it was prior to yesterday. The HB works better now, so jjust going to take the drum off the other side to see if everything is in a similar place.
I've just been out and the handbrake lever works fine ( observed with the aid of a mirror as i'm operating it inside the car). It operates the rear ( trailing) shoes which would then push the leading shoe via the adjuster rod. Of course this only happens with the drum in place because then as the trailing shoe pushes against the drum it can only go so far then the other shoe pushes the other way vvia the rod. Thats how I see it anyway.
I therefore slackened everything off, wedged the top of the shoes open or else the starwheel (which is a flimsy thing) won't budge and then adjusted the starwheel to roughly where it was prior to yesterday. The HB works better now, so jjust going to take the drum off the other side to see if everything is in a similar place.
I seemed to be replacing at least one wheel cylinder before every MoT on one or the other of our 306s!
Never a seizure, always a leak. So much so I always removed the rear drums to check them during servicing.
The shoes should adjust automatically by the application of the footbrake although I did used to turn the star wheel adjuster to take up a lot of the clearance beforehand.
Haynes (306) just says 'Depress the footbrake several times to operate the self adjusting mechanism'
For adjusting the handbrake cable - again 306 with drums - Haynes:
"First apply the footbrake several times then apply & release the handbrake several times to ensure that the self-adjust mechanism is fully adjusted"
Then it speaks of pulling the handbrake lever to the fully applied position & counting the number of clicks. Correct to be 4 to 7.
"Jack up the rear of the vehicle & support it on axle stands. With the handbrake set on the first notch of the mechanism (1 click), rotate the handbrake adjusting nut until only a slight drag can be felt when the rear wheels/hubs are turned. Once this is so fully release the handbrake lever and check that the wheels/hubs rotate freely. Check the adjustment by applying the handbrake fully, counting the number of clicks from the handbrake ratchet and, if necessary, re-adjust"
Hopefully after you've sorted the other seized cylinder it will all work!
Never a seizure, always a leak. So much so I always removed the rear drums to check them during servicing.
The shoes should adjust automatically by the application of the footbrake although I did used to turn the star wheel adjuster to take up a lot of the clearance beforehand.
Haynes (306) just says 'Depress the footbrake several times to operate the self adjusting mechanism'
For adjusting the handbrake cable - again 306 with drums - Haynes:
"First apply the footbrake several times then apply & release the handbrake several times to ensure that the self-adjust mechanism is fully adjusted"
Then it speaks of pulling the handbrake lever to the fully applied position & counting the number of clicks. Correct to be 4 to 7.
"Jack up the rear of the vehicle & support it on axle stands. With the handbrake set on the first notch of the mechanism (1 click), rotate the handbrake adjusting nut until only a slight drag can be felt when the rear wheels/hubs are turned. Once this is so fully release the handbrake lever and check that the wheels/hubs rotate freely. Check the adjustment by applying the handbrake fully, counting the number of clicks from the handbrake ratchet and, if necessary, re-adjust"
Hopefully after you've sorted the other seized cylinder it will all work!
Both cylinders done now, but notice the drum is still dragging a bit. The other side that was initially causing trouble turns easily. Maybe I need to reduce the adjuster on this side a little, to increase shoe/drum clearance but I would have thought that the bleeding process would sort all that out or perhaps I have to reset the adjuster frst?
Cant work out how the adjuster is designed to operate. It's just a threaded bar, with a starwheel on it and is feebly braced with a piece of thin metal acting as a ratchet stop. How does it operate automatically? Does the starwheel literally vibrate around each time there is some freeplay?
Cant work out how the adjuster is designed to operate. It's just a threaded bar, with a starwheel on it and is feebly braced with a piece of thin metal acting as a ratchet stop. How does it operate automatically? Does the starwheel literally vibrate around each time there is some freeplay?
Edited by TM on Wednesday 14th November 13:18
Seems like they are both Ok now. I could take the wheel and drum off in my sleep the amount of times I've done it to set the adjusters so they are the same.
Another worry has arisen now. I did an oil/filter change yesterday and now there is a bad grating, dry sound now and again from the engine. Sounds like a dry bearing. Like it has no oil in the engine.
The old oil was at least three years old and was black. It was also only about halfwway up the stick. The new oil is 5-40 Fully Synth as recommended by Shell for this engine. Research tells me that the engine will accept anything from 5-30 to 10 40, so I cant see that I've put the 'wrong' oil in. It was fine yesterday after the change, but there was a slight noise when first started which I put down to the new oil finding its way around the engine.
I'll go to my local garage and let them have a listen, but it won't do it on demand I'll bet.
Another worry has arisen now. I did an oil/filter change yesterday and now there is a bad grating, dry sound now and again from the engine. Sounds like a dry bearing. Like it has no oil in the engine.
The old oil was at least three years old and was black. It was also only about halfwway up the stick. The new oil is 5-40 Fully Synth as recommended by Shell for this engine. Research tells me that the engine will accept anything from 5-30 to 10 40, so I cant see that I've put the 'wrong' oil in. It was fine yesterday after the change, but there was a slight noise when first started which I put down to the new oil finding its way around the engine.
I'll go to my local garage and let them have a listen, but it won't do it on demand I'll bet.
Edited by TM on Wednesday 14th November 15:00
TM said:
Cant work out how the adjuster is designed to operate. It's just a threaded bar, with a starwheel on it and is feebly braced with a piece of thin metal acting as a ratchet stop. How does it operate automatically? Does the starwheel literally vibrate around each time there is some freeplay?
The ends of the adjuster are held securely to the shoes via springs. As the shoes move apart during braking, the threaded part of the adjuster gets pulled out of the main body of the adjuster. The toothed wheel is internally threaded and just behind it on the adjuster is a little L shaped lever, which is under a small amount of tension from a flat spring. If the toothed wheel gets pulled far enough away from the adjuster body during a brake application, the movement of the L shaped lever advances the toothed wheel by one tooth, which extends the adjuster very slightly via the screw thread.It's a very clever little mechanism, and looks exactly like the one used on the Smart Roadster. They cause no real problems in the Smart, though again backing them off is quite fiddly.
TM said:
Another worry has arisen now. I did an oil/filter change yesterday and now there is a bad grating, dry sound now and again from the engine. Sounds like a dry bearing. Like it has no oil in the engine.
Engine bearings don't make that sort of noise anyway. It's more likely to be an ancilliary like an alternator.Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff