Stop my Peugeot 107 from oversteering in the wet
Discussion
I've had my Peugeot 107 since new in 2010, and over the few years I've had it I've found it to be a bit tail happy. It doesn't bother me, as I know it could happen and I adjust my driving to suit. And when it does snap I've got it under control. However the wife drives the car and last night I went round a roundabout in the wet and the car just snapped out of shape, she promptly crapped herself and this morning I could see her stabbing the floor with her foot. I'm not an unsafe driver, she even said so, it's just the car oversteering concerned her and that there might be something wrong with the car.
It's happened several times over the years. I've had it happen with Continental tyres, and I have Toyo tyres on there at the moment. The current tyres are about 3 years old and aren't bald. It has 14" alloys as standard, and the shock absorbers are good. No misting and it's still quite firm over bumps. From what I can see, the rear is made up of a sprung axle with no rear anti-roll bar.
The question is can anything be done to reduce the chances of the rear slipping out like this?
It's happened several times over the years. I've had it happen with Continental tyres, and I have Toyo tyres on there at the moment. The current tyres are about 3 years old and aren't bald. It has 14" alloys as standard, and the shock absorbers are good. No misting and it's still quite firm over bumps. From what I can see, the rear is made up of a sprung axle with no rear anti-roll bar.
The question is can anything be done to reduce the chances of the rear slipping out like this?
sgtBerbatov said:
No misting
Firstly what do you mean by this?Secondly Toyos are cr@p, especially in the wet.
Thirdly I would be getting your full geometry set up checked & all suspension joints/bushes.
That is not to say there is a problem, but just to make sure there isn't.
As you say some cars are more prone to "lift off oversteer" (which is what you are describing) than others, I would suspect you may have this exacerbated by a suspension geometry issue as most standard card have this "tuned out" by geometry.
Long dry spell followed by lots of rain?
Spilt diesel, oil etc will have built up & the water now on it gives you your own skidpan.
Common on roundabouts - something that motorcyclists (incl me) are well aware of but a non-biker may not be.
Easiest answer is to reduce speed in the conditions.
Spilt diesel, oil etc will have built up & the water now on it gives you your own skidpan.
Common on roundabouts - something that motorcyclists (incl me) are well aware of but a non-biker may not be.
Easiest answer is to reduce speed in the conditions.
E-bmw said:
sgtBerbatov said:
No misting
Firstly what do you mean by this?E-bmw said:
Secondly Toyos are cr@p, especially in the wet.
Thirdly I would be getting your full geometry set up checked & all suspension joints/bushes.
That is not to say there is a problem, but just to make sure there isn't.
As you say some cars are more prone to "lift off oversteer" (which is what you are describing) than others, I would suspect you may have this exacerbated by a suspension geometry issue as most standard card have this "tuned out" by geometry.
I've had Toyo's all round on this and it's fine in the wet. Actually they're better on the front than the Yokohama's are on the front at the moment. But I've had Continentals all round on this car and it's happened before, in the wet and the dry. Thirdly I would be getting your full geometry set up checked & all suspension joints/bushes.
That is not to say there is a problem, but just to make sure there isn't.
As you say some cars are more prone to "lift off oversteer" (which is what you are describing) than others, I would suspect you may have this exacerbated by a suspension geometry issue as most standard card have this "tuned out" by geometry.
I've had the geometry checked before when it happened, I'll have it tried again. The suspension on the rear is fine, it's not broken and the bushes aren't perished. I checked these a fortnight ago when it was up on the ramp for it's MOT.
Thought about the dry spell and the rain, but it happens in the dry aswell.
Oil and other lubricants might be a cause, but I know there is a roundabout I can go around in the wet, dry, snow, saraha dessert and it will oversteer.
I checked the tyre pressures 4 days ago, I will check them tomorrow morning when they're cold.
What you are describing sounds very much like lift off over-steer.
This is a common problem in small fwd cars especially french ones.
I have had this happen when I owned a saxo.
However it only usually occurs due to driving errors, ie too much speed into the corner, lift off to reduce under-steer which induces weight transfer and lift off over-steer.
This is a common problem in small fwd cars especially french ones.
I have had this happen when I owned a saxo.
However it only usually occurs due to driving errors, ie too much speed into the corner, lift off to reduce under-steer which induces weight transfer and lift off over-steer.
GreenV8S said:
Are you driving close to the limit of grip when this happens? .
Probably, if he lost grip 
I had one of those for a year or so and it was set up to understeer so I would check the geo although it would take a lot of "accidental" front camber to transform it into a lairy handler. But check the tyre pressure first, perhaps the front is too low or the rear too high or both.
It's OK to lift off, even with a little lock on, but it has to be done gradually and smoothly where possible. The other thing I would do is to ensure that I am never totally off the throttle, even if that means trimming the turn in speed down.
GreenV8S said:
Are you driving close to the limit of grip when this happens? That's too fast for normal driving, especially with an anxious passenger in the car. There would have to be a significant problem for the car to slide in normal sensible driving.
I was driving around a roundabout to go to Sainsbury's, so I was going 10/15mph. I wasn't driving to the limit of anything as it was wet and I knew the car was arse happy going around corners sometimes. nickfrog said:
GreenV8S said:
Are you driving close to the limit of grip when this happens? .
Probably, if he lost grip I had one of those for a year or so and it was set up to understeer so I would check the geo although it would take a lot of "accidental" front camber to transform it into a lairy handler. But check the tyre pressure first, perhaps the front is too low or the rear too high or both.
It's OK to lift off, even with a little lock on, but it has to be done gradually and smoothly where possible. The other thing I would do is to ensure that I am never totally off the throttle, even if that means trimming the turn in speed down.
If it can happen on that roundabout in any conditions, but not elsewhere, just be more careful on that roundabout.
I had a Peugeot 106 Rallye back in the mid-90s, and in the dry, on a roundabout, I had to approach at silly speeds and back off the throttle completely, and suddenly, to induce sudden oversteer.
So, I’d say if your car is as per oem requirements with tyres and chassis, it’s your driving that needs looking at.
I had a Peugeot 106 Rallye back in the mid-90s, and in the dry, on a roundabout, I had to approach at silly speeds and back off the throttle completely, and suddenly, to induce sudden oversteer.
So, I’d say if your car is as per oem requirements with tyres and chassis, it’s your driving that needs looking at.
nickfrog said:
Probably, if he lost grip
What I'm getting at is you are pushing the car hard and it happens to be the back that breaks away first, that's just a handling quirk of the car under those circumstances and probably not a fault. You shouldn't be that close to the limit in normal driving. But if you're driving sensibly and it still slides then there is something wrong with the car or with the bit of road you're on.Stumped to be honest. It shouldn't be possible to make the car oversteer without some commitment, especially in the dry (assuming you don't have excellent tyres on the front and s
t ones on the back).
Swap the tyres front to rear to eliminate the possibility of bad tyres.
If this was being caused by geometry it'd probably have to be so far out so as to be visible with the naked eye (positive camber / negative toe) and would be accompanied by strange tyre wear and other odd driving characteristics. Nothing is adjustable at the rear so the rear beam would have to have been bent by a collision.
Does it do it in left handers too or only right handers?
I'm assuming you don't have an unusual load in the boot?
Is the handbrake fully released? binding?
Check for broken springs at the front
Check that the front anti-roll bar and both droplinks are present
Also, this;
t ones on the back). Swap the tyres front to rear to eliminate the possibility of bad tyres.
If this was being caused by geometry it'd probably have to be so far out so as to be visible with the naked eye (positive camber / negative toe) and would be accompanied by strange tyre wear and other odd driving characteristics. Nothing is adjustable at the rear so the rear beam would have to have been bent by a collision.
Does it do it in left handers too or only right handers?
I'm assuming you don't have an unusual load in the boot?
Is the handbrake fully released? binding?
Check for broken springs at the front
Check that the front anti-roll bar and both droplinks are present
Also, this;
Munter said:
What pedal were you pressing when it happened?
HustleRussell said:
Stumped to be honest. It shouldn't be possible to make the car oversteer without some commitment, especially in the dry (assuming you don't have excellent tyres on the front and st ones on the back).
Swap the tyres front to rear to eliminate the possibility of bad tyres.
If this was being caused by geometry it'd probably have to be so far out so as to be visible with the naked eye (positive camber / negative toe) and would be accompanied by strange tyre wear and other odd driving characteristics. Nothing is adjustable at the rear so the rear beam would have to have been bent by a collision.
Does it do it in left handers too or only right handers?
I'm assuming you don't have an unusual load in the boot?
Is the handbrake fully released? binding?
Check for broken springs at the front
Check that the front anti-roll bar and both droplinks are present
Also, this;
Been quiet about this because I wanted to check everything.t ones on the back). Swap the tyres front to rear to eliminate the possibility of bad tyres.
If this was being caused by geometry it'd probably have to be so far out so as to be visible with the naked eye (positive camber / negative toe) and would be accompanied by strange tyre wear and other odd driving characteristics. Nothing is adjustable at the rear so the rear beam would have to have been bent by a collision.
Does it do it in left handers too or only right handers?
I'm assuming you don't have an unusual load in the boot?
Is the handbrake fully released? binding?
Check for broken springs at the front
Check that the front anti-roll bar and both droplinks are present
Also, this;
Munter said:
What pedal were you pressing when it happened?
Tyres are fine in terms of pressure and in terms of tread etc. I'll move the tyres around, just haven't had any time to do that.
I've only ever known it to do it on right handers. I didn't have anything in the boot at all.
Handbrake is fully released and isn't binding.
I'll check if the front anti-roll bar and droplinks are there, I'd imagine they are though as I've had the car from new.
Springs aren't broken, they've been checked at every MOT by the tester and by me.
Munter said:
What pedal were you pressing when it happened?
I'm struggling to remember, but I don't think I was on any pedal, except when it did skid when I went on to the accelerator and turned in to the skid. sgtBerbatov said:
I'm struggling to remember, but I don't think I was on any pedal, except when it did skid when I went on to the accelerator and turned in to the skid.
When you replace tyres, do you put the new ones on the front and leave the rears, as they take a lot longer to wear? This is a typical thing I see where people have rear tyres that are very old, and although they may not be illegal, there will be a big difference in grip front to rear due to condition.When I married my wife had a Morris Minor, cross ply tyres etc. I do recall being in it when she spun it on the A1 in Gateshead (early sunday morning, road empty and she avoiced the barriers).
Up til then I had only driven my fathers Volvos (144, 244 and a Mazda 12?)
The MM tyres would scrabble for grip on corners at speed that were uneventful in the Volvos, even in the dry - I changed my driving style.
Think more carefully about how you approach roundabouts, don't put yourself in the situation where it might bite.
Go buy an old MM on crossplies and have some fun at low speeds.
Up til then I had only driven my fathers Volvos (144, 244 and a Mazda 12?)
The MM tyres would scrabble for grip on corners at speed that were uneventful in the Volvos, even in the dry - I changed my driving style.
Think more carefully about how you approach roundabouts, don't put yourself in the situation where it might bite.
Go buy an old MM on crossplies and have some fun at low speeds.
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