Do these brakes pipes need doing and what to do with them?

Do these brakes pipes need doing and what to do with them?

Author
Discussion

PistonAFC

Original Poster:

120 posts

47 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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Hi,

I took my shed to the dealership for a recall. They said it needs brake pipes replacing due to corrosion and gave me video of the the corrosion. Looking at the video and talking to the tech only the bits near the front tyres seem corroded. I took off the front tyres and took some pics.

My question is do they look like they need doing and if so can I just replace the bits near the tyre (the rest of the pipes have that black plastic on them and have no corrosion)?





Skyedriver

17,655 posts

281 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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How would you replace just the bit that is corroded?


Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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It's the actual pipe they're talking about, It's badly corroded where the plastic coating ends.

steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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last pic does look a bit rough

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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Yes. They need replacing.

Ritchie335is

1,854 posts

201 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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The bare bit of steel pipe after the plastic coating is shagged and certainly a fail.
The ferrules on the flexis look a bit rough but are ok for now I’d say as long as the rubber isn’t cracked, then that’s a fail aswell.
You can cut the steel pipes back, re-end them and make up a short length of copper pipe but by the time you’ve done that, you’d probably just be aswell replacing the full pipe.
It shouldn’t be too expensive.

A1VDY

3,575 posts

126 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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Those have pretty serious rust. Under the plastic they're likely OK but the exposed ends would be an mot fail (Imho).
Dont bother cutting and joining, just get them both replaced with copper.
The ferrules on the hoses don't look too bad, clean them up with a wire brush and apply a smear of copper grease. Having said that a pair of hoses won't set you back much and can be done along with the pipes.
Youre not being fed porkies to extract work, the garage is right..

PistonAFC

Original Poster:

120 posts

47 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
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Could I do something like this (cut and make a union with a good bit of the brake pipe +/- a new brake hose):-


steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Monday 8th June 2020
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yes you join it like that , use kunifer pipe

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Monday 8th June 2020
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You could.
But you have no idea how far the corrosion has spread underneath the plastic sheathing & you won't know until you start peeling it back.
Once you've cut back to sound metal you will then need to flare the steel pipe. You will need a flaring tool capable of doing steel & that doesn't really include the cheap ones.
If you have a flaring tool capable of doing it on the vehicle you'll be OK but tbh unless there is a major access issue to the old brake piping - & you can see the difficult to access pipe is in good condition - you'll be a lot better replacing the whole pipe.

rustednut

807 posts

46 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
paintman said:
You could.
But you have no idea how far the corrosion has spread underneath the plastic sheathing & you won't know until you start peeling it back.
Once you've cut back to sound metal you will then need to flare the steel pipe. You will need a flaring tool capable of doing steel & that doesn't really include the cheap ones.
If you have a flaring tool capable of doing it on the vehicle you'll be OK but tbh unless there is a major access issue to the old brake piping - & you can see the difficult to access pipe is in good condition - you'll be a lot better replacing the whole pipe.
Agree with this.

Until you know the condition of the pipe under the plastic you cannot make a judgement on its condition. And then to flare it correctly will be a lot harder than flaring a pipe on a bench.

The point made about joining it like that is ok, as long as the pipe is sound and the tools are available.

For somebody who is not sure if the pipe needed replacing then I suggest they will also be unaware as to how to flare the pipe correctly too.

A full replacement pipe is not that bad a job, unless any of the pipe is hidden out of sight and reach.

PistonAFC

Original Poster:

120 posts

47 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Went to mechanic and showed him pics, he asked me to bring it in next week but said it'll probably only need what's pictured below for £25 per corner for labour with copper pipe.


Sounds a bit steep for just making a small join on each corner, new brake hoses etc will be extra if needed. I'm up north where costs are a bit less so I thought new pipes top to bottom including labour would cost around £100 with extra for hoses etc, but it's going to cost £100 for 4 small joins by the looks of things frown

sunbeam alpine

6,936 posts

187 months

Monday 8th June 2020
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In fairness, you could easily spend up to an hour on each one - depending on how hard it is to get the old pipes disconnected - followed by forming and connecting the pipes.

It's the sort of job I'd rather price on the high side - it's easier to knock a bit off the bill than to ask for more!

Edit: If you're replacing the flexibles as well you might save a bit of time as you don't have to worry about damage when dismantling!

Plus you need to bleed the system afterwards. Is this included in the price maybe?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Monday 8th June 21:58

PistonAFC

Original Poster:

120 posts

47 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
sunbeam alpine said:
In fairness, you could easily spend up to an hour on each one - depending on how hard it is to get the old pipes disconnected - followed by forming and connecting the pipes.

It's the sort of job I'd rather price on the high side - it's easier to knock a bit off the bill than to ask for more!

Edit: If you're replacing the flexibles as well you might save a bit of time as you don't have to worry about damage when dismantling!

Plus you need to bleed the system afterwards. Is this included in the price maybe?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Monday 8th June 21:58
The £25 per corner is for the joint with new copper pipe to the old pipe as in the pic and bleeding the system. He said her can't use steel or cupronickel (cunifer) as he needs to bend it and copper is only one he can use confused or is it not proper to mix metals when connecting pipes together?

I was thinking of buying some delphi brake hoses just in case they are needed and return them if not. The local dealers sell Borg and Beck brake hose pipes and I've never heard of them. I try to fit quality stuff so the job doesn't have to be done again.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
PistonAFC said:
Went to mechanic and showed him pics, he asked me to bring it in next week but said it'll probably only need what's pictured below for £25 per corner for labour with copper pipe.

Sounds a bit steep for just making a small join on each corner, new brake hoses etc will be extra if needed. I'm up north where costs are a bit less so I thought new pipes top to bottom including labour would cost around £100 with extra for hoses etc, but it's going to cost £100 for 4 small joins by the looks of things frown
Sounds steep ? do it yourself then.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't do it for that price, and very possible it may also need flexis depending if the nut is seized into them

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
sunbeam alpine said:
Plus you need to bleed the system afterwards. Is this included in the price maybe?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Monday 8th June 21:58
Be some craic if it wasn't included lol...driver takes off and crashes...."well he never asked about filling and bleeding" lol

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
PistonAFC said:
The £25 per corner is for the joint with new copper pipe to the old pipe as in the pic and bleeding the system. He said her can't use steel or cupronickel (cunifer) as he needs to bend it and copper is only one he can use confused or is it not proper to mix metals when connecting pipes together?

I was thinking of buying some delphi brake hoses just in case they are needed and return them if not. The local dealers sell Borg and Beck brake hose pipes and I've never heard of them. I try to fit quality stuff so the job doesn't have to be done again.
Kunifer is better, but a little harder to bend. Copper is the easy way out for everyone, and it's fine.
Steel...no chance.

But you cannot join copper to copper directly, hence the steel jointer in the middle. ( generally there should always be a proper jointing piece if two pipes need joined. )

And you buying parts is foolish, because if you buy the wrong parts and your car is stuck on his ramp because of it, IMO he would be quite right in charging for more time to source the right parts.

Let the garage source the parts, then any issues and warranty are all on them ( assuming a legit garage )

As for Borg & Beck...seriously ? Have a google. They've probably been around longer than you.

steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
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25 a corner is more than fair

PistonAFC

Original Poster:

120 posts

47 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
sunbeam alpine said:
In fairness, you could easily spend up to an hour on each one - depending on how hard it is to get the old pipes disconnected - followed by forming and connecting the pipes.

It's the sort of job I'd rather price on the high side - it's easier to knock a bit off the bill than to ask for more!

Edit: If you're replacing the flexibles as well you might save a bit of time as you don't have to worry about damage when dismantling!

Plus you need to bleed the system afterwards. Is this included in the price maybe?

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Monday 8th June 21:58
If it takes an hour , isn't it better to just run a new pipes back to front? How much extra time would it take to do full pipes compared to just 4 individual corners.

If brake hoses are needed for each corner then that will push the cost to around £200 which may make the car uneconomical to repair as car is only worth around £1000-1200 and may be I can sell it for > £1000 in its present state and save myself some hassle.




The Wookie

13,909 posts

227 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
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Depends on the car really, on my E92 M3 I’m st scared of damaging the hose on the front left as from what I can make out if it’s not an engine out job to replace it then it’s definitely bonnet off and a major reconstruction of the back of the engine bay

Plus BMW will only sell you a straight hose to the right length and the routing is epically convoluted, itd take you hours to copy it properly