Bubble flare stick out length
Discussion
te.This is what I get with 6mm stickout on 4.75mm Kunifer.
What I don't like about the tool is it scars the pipe where is clamps. This won't affect the seal but it's just bad form.
Otherwise the tool works on Kunifer with very little effort so not sure why someone said not to use this tool with Kunifer.
I do use a little grease mind.
The shadow in the image makes it look uneven bit it is square.
So what's the verdict?
More or less stickout or is it about right?
What I don't like about the tool is it scars the pipe where is clamps. This won't affect the seal but it's just bad form.
Otherwise the tool works on Kunifer with very little effort so not sure why someone said not to use this tool with Kunifer.
I do use a little grease mind.
The shadow in the image makes it look uneven bit it is square.
So what's the verdict?
More or less stickout or is it about right?
Edited by montyjohn on Saturday 17th October 17:39
Get a proper tool, and it will make the world of difference.
Whether a Sykes Flaremaster2, or one of the vice mounted types like this.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-Brake-Pipe...
Whether a Sykes Flaremaster2, or one of the vice mounted types like this.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-Brake-Pipe...
GreenV8S said:
montyjohn said:
Or or less stickout or is it about right?
The minor diameter of the flare should match the bore of the pipe. Is that the case?The minor diameter is ever so slightly smaller than the ID of the pipe.
So I've got slightly too much stickout with 6mm.
Good to know. Thanks.
I'll report back with what stickout gives the correct diameter as it may be useful for others.
montyjohn said:
This is what I get with 6mm stickout on 4.75mm Kunifer.
What I don't like about the tool is it scars the pipe where is clamps. This won't affect the seal but it's just bad form.
Otherwise the tool works on Kunifer with very little effort so not sure why someone said not to use this tool with Kunifer.
I do use a little grease mind.
The shadow in the image makes it look uneven bit it is square.
So what's the verdict?
More or less stickout or is it about right?
The scarring of the pipe is due to how tight it has to be to grip it. As long as it has not deformed the pipe in any way then it is not pretty but is ok.What I don't like about the tool is it scars the pipe where is clamps. This won't affect the seal but it's just bad form.
Otherwise the tool works on Kunifer with very little effort so not sure why someone said not to use this tool with Kunifer.
I do use a little grease mind.
The shadow in the image makes it look uneven bit it is square.
So what's the verdict?
More or less stickout or is it about right?
Edited by montyjohn on Saturday 17th October 17:39
As for the flares, you mention the shadow, that is maybe what I am looking at, but in picture 1 it does look like an uneven (top, jointing part) flare. The second picture appears to show the flare not central, and if so the flare should be redone.
For the sake of a few quid extra for a "proper" flaring tool like the Sealey AK5063, to give better, more reliable and consistent flares, without the expense of a workshop bench mounted kit that is probably as good as you will get.
rustednut said:
For the sake of a few quid extra for a "proper" flaring tool like the Sealey AK5063, to give better, more reliable and consistent flares, without the expense of a workshop bench mounted kit that is probably as good as you will get.
That is not a "proper" flaring tool. It's really not much better than the tool he is using, it bites into the pipe to hold it in exactly the same way and deforms the same.I already suggested two "proper" tools, that will do perfect flares pretty much every time, and will not damage the pipe.
Ok, I've carried out my tests.
I tried 3mm all the way through to 8mm.
I used 4.75mm copper as it's a little easier and I had some spare I have no intention of using.
First thing to note, if you have a tool like mine, don't use the center hole as an indicator. They all had the exact same internal diameter, that is, the dimeter of the shaft on the tool which in my case is 2.7mm. So they are all smaller than the pipe internal diameter which I think is a smidge over 3mm.
So we need to compare the flare instead. Here are my observations.
3mm stick out: The flare has no flat bottom for the fitting to seat against. Almost pulls through the fitting. Would never seal.
4mm stick out: The flare does have a flat bottom, and it's big enough to push against, but I think in soft copper there is a real risk that the flare bottom would deform and jam inside the fitting.
5mm stick out: Not a bad looking flare. It's still smaller than the outside diameter of the fitting, but plenty of contact space on the flat bottom. I think 5mm would is perfectly adequate.
6mm stick out: Again, not a bad flare. The flat bottom is slightly larger than the fitting so arguably bigger than it needs to be. But only slightly.
7mm stick out: At 7mm, it started to get hard to keep the tool aligned. Also worth noting that the die didn't quite mate with the tool as there was too much material. I tried to force it and the flare ended up with a groove on the domes surface. 7mm, is too much.
8mm stick out: Similar to 7mm but worse. Flare is really uneven now. It's no larger than the 7mm one, but it's taller as there was a bigger gap between the die and the tool. I didn't force this one and the dome is pretty smooth but wonky as hell. I'm sure it would seal however.
Conclusion:
5mm to 6mm seems about right.
I tried 3mm all the way through to 8mm.
I used 4.75mm copper as it's a little easier and I had some spare I have no intention of using.
First thing to note, if you have a tool like mine, don't use the center hole as an indicator. They all had the exact same internal diameter, that is, the dimeter of the shaft on the tool which in my case is 2.7mm. So they are all smaller than the pipe internal diameter which I think is a smidge over 3mm.
So we need to compare the flare instead. Here are my observations.
3mm stick out: The flare has no flat bottom for the fitting to seat against. Almost pulls through the fitting. Would never seal.
4mm stick out: The flare does have a flat bottom, and it's big enough to push against, but I think in soft copper there is a real risk that the flare bottom would deform and jam inside the fitting.
5mm stick out: Not a bad looking flare. It's still smaller than the outside diameter of the fitting, but plenty of contact space on the flat bottom. I think 5mm would is perfectly adequate.
6mm stick out: Again, not a bad flare. The flat bottom is slightly larger than the fitting so arguably bigger than it needs to be. But only slightly.
7mm stick out: At 7mm, it started to get hard to keep the tool aligned. Also worth noting that the die didn't quite mate with the tool as there was too much material. I tried to force it and the flare ended up with a groove on the domes surface. 7mm, is too much.
8mm stick out: Similar to 7mm but worse. Flare is really uneven now. It's no larger than the 7mm one, but it's taller as there was a bigger gap between the die and the tool. I didn't force this one and the dome is pretty smooth but wonky as hell. I'm sure it would seal however.
Conclusion:
5mm to 6mm seems about right.
Edited by montyjohn on Monday 19th October 21:28
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