Replace rear disks on Citroen dispatch

Replace rear disks on Citroen dispatch

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scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Monday 26th April 2021
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Has anyone managed to do this successfully, what a pain in the arse. There are two E16 male torx bolts that hold the pad carrier to the bearing assembly but you can't get a socket on them due to the sub frame being in the way, you can get a spanner on but they are incredibly tight, probably with threadlock on them as well. According to citroen you are supposed to undo the 4 21mm bolts that hold the bearing assembly to the sub frame, disconnect the ABS sensor and get at the torx bolts that way but you can't get a socket on them either because the spring is in the way.

It can't be that hard just to change a disk, it looks to me that it was intentionally designed to be that way to make what should be a simple home mechanical job into a main dealer one instead. I've done one side with a lot of effort but I've managed to knacker up the head of one torx bolt using the spanner, it just slips off now and I cant get a grip of it I've tried with grips and all sorts and it just won't budge, not tried any heat on it yet though but there is not much left of the head now anyway.

What annoys me is the thread of the bolt is probably 12mm or more yet the torx head is relatively small, the equivalent hex would be 13mm looking at it. If it was a normal hex bold it would probably be 19mm which would be much more durable.

I suppose my question is if I grind the bolt off where do I get another one from, I thought they would be all over E-bay but I can't find them anywhere it just keeps linking to the guide pin bolts.

Edit : a picture of the bolts







Edited by scottyp123 on Monday 26th April 17:28

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 26th April 2021
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It's a bolt, just buy a bolt, bolts are available everywhere.

And it's a nightmare because it's French, they're terrible designers.

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Monday 26th April 2021
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
It's a bolt, just buy a bolt, bolts are available everywhere.

And it's a nightmare because it's French, they're terrible designers.
Could do with knowing the thread size though, I should have checked when I managed to do the first side but I didn't know at the time I wouldn't be able to get the other side undone and I wasn't going to start removing the first side again on a Sunday afternoon. Thats the problem, if I commit to cutting it off this weekend I need the van up and running for Monday for work, if I leave it and use my car it will end up on stands for ever and I'll end up wrecking my car.

bungz

1,960 posts

119 months

Tuesday 27th April 2021
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Call a Citroen dealer and get a part number.

Wont be rare.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 27th April 2021
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bungz said:
Call a Citroen dealer and get a part number.

Wont be rare.
This is true.

But probably a fairly standard M10 or M12 bolt.

I'd doubt a caliper carrier would be M8...but it is possible.

rustednut

807 posts

46 months

Wednesday 28th April 2021
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Not 100 percent sure, but I think these may have a finer thread than standard.

But the easiest answer is to contact a Citroen dealer parts counter and order/buy new bolts from them. They are unlikely to be unaffordable, and will be the right ones.

If you have damaged the heads and they are really tight (most likely locking compound on the threads) they are going to be an absoloute nightmare to undo and remove and I think will mean taking everything apart to get good direct access to them. Prepare yourself for some major work.

Chris32345

2,082 posts

61 months

Wednesday 28th April 2021
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stevieturbo said:
This is true.

But probably a fairly standard M10 or M12 bolt.

I'd doubt a caliper carrier would be M8...but it is possible.
Allmost certainly high tensile bolt's and being high tensile they will be a finer thread pitch then standard bolts

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 28th April 2021
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Chris32345 said:
Allmost certainly high tensile bolt's and being high tensile they will be a finer thread pitch then standard bolts
Not really, you can get HT bolts in any thread. And caliper carriers are usually a fairly standard thread.

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Wednesday 28th April 2021
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I'm going to have a go again this weekend, might just cut them off and see what I've got in my box of bits to put it back together. I've never been defeated yet by a stuck bolt and I've had engines and gearboxes out and in bits over the years before now.

I wouldn't mind but I'm only changing them because the MOT inspector last year said that they would probably need doing this year but they dont look too bad to me, the wear lip is probably 1-1.5mm max all round.

PS I though M10 was M10 and M12 was M12 etc, never knew the pitch could be different.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 29th April 2021
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Sometimes you can be fortune to be able to remove the rear discs with the carrier in place.

ph83

1 posts

34 months

Saturday 8th May 2021
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Hi,
I just faced this very issue with an identical Fiat Scudo, looked frantically for a shop with a Torx E16 flat spanner but did not find one, so in the end unscrewed the four 21 mm nuts with a standard flat closed eye spanner, they were tight but came off by starting with gentle hammer knocks. I could then unscrew the two caliper frame nuts with my E16 Torx socket wrench.
I also cursed the use of these Torx heads, I have a reasonably well kitted out tool box, but not flat Torx, and it seems it was just as well since I might have ended up also grinding the head frown
I don't know however the tightening torque for the four 21mm nuts, and in fact couldn't use my dynamometric wrench because the darn sockets don't get past the spring. So I just used max arm force on the flat 21mm spanner...
Thanks anyways for the forum, I'm french (no hard feelings about the crap frog engineering) and this is the only place I found some mention of this pathetic rear disk brake changing issue...
Oh and I put everything back together again, and realized I had forgotten to sandwich the metal disk mud guard under the van, had to strip down again - don't forget this f*£#$g part....
Edited by ph83 on Saturday 8th May 10:51


Edited by ph83 on Saturday 8th May 10:54

Chris32345

2,082 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th May 2021
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ph83 said:
Hi,
I just faced this very issue with an identical Fiat Scudo, looked frantically for a shop with a Torx E16 flat spanner but did not find one, so in the end unscrewed the four 21 mm nuts with a standard flat closed eye spanner, they were tight but came off by starting with gentle hammer knocks. I could then unscrew the two caliper frame nuts with my E16 Torx socket wrench.
I also cursed the use of these Torx heads, I have a reasonably well kitted out tool box, but not flat Torx, and it seems it was just as well since I might have ended up also grinding the head frown
I don't know however the tightening torque for the four 21mm nuts, and in fact couldn't use my dynamometric wrench because the darn sockets don't get past the spring. So I just used max arm force on the flat 21mm spanner...
Thanks anyways for the forum, I'm french (no hard feelings about the crap frog engineering) and this is the only place I found some mention of this pathetic rear disk brake changing issue...
Oh and I put everything back together again, and realized I had forgotten to sandwich the metal disk mud guard under the van, had to strip down again - don't forget this f*£#$g part....
Edited by ph83 on Saturday 8th May 10:51


Edited by ph83 on Saturday 8th May 10:54
Just look at the rear disc on a rwd transit also stupid design

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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This is turning into a right saga now. This is the first day that both, has not rained and I've got time to do the job. I think I'll attempt the fronts first as they look nice and easy, you can get a torx socket on the front ones and I've got all the new disks and pads in the shed ready to go on.


So I undo the front drivers side with ease and get the disk off, open the box for the new disk and its the wrong fking one, looks nothing like a Dispatch front disk, so yet again I put it all back together having accomplished nothing.

Come inside to try and sort a return out with ebay and discover that in fact the other new disk I've not opened yet is the correct one, the fool has sent me two odd disks for the front, the label says its for a Mitsubishi, so at least I could have got the new disk on one side for now without putting all the old st back again, dearie me. Now I've got to go through all the hassle of trying to explain it to E-bay, I'd better look and see what the other new rear disk is from as well whilst I'm at it.

Edit, this is crazy, I've just realised that I've already got a brand new disk for the front in the shed somewhere, I bought a second hand hub of ebay a while ago because the wheel bearing was noisy and it came with a brand new disk, I've been moaning for ages now that you cant buy a single disk by itself to save some money. I'll just use that instead of disappearing down the black hole of ebay returns.


Edited by scottyp123 on Sunday 9th May 12:15

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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Never really had any hassle with ebay returns.

But you do always need to check all parts when they arrive....wrong parts are all too common.

rustednut

807 posts

46 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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stevieturbo said:
Never really had any hassle with ebay returns.

But you do always need to check all parts when they arrive....wrong parts are all too common.
And a good example of why garages don't source their parts (even if they are cheaper) from places where it is time consuming and awkward to return.

And why they don't like customers turning up with their own parts.

It happens way too often

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
quotequote all
The fronts are all done and dusted now, found the other disk, it was a bit rusty but cleaned up ok. Just got the last one to do on the back now, the torx spanners have arrived so hopefully there is enough left of the bolt to still get some purchase on it.

Dave Brand

928 posts

267 months

Sunday 9th May 2021
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Just a note of caution on using discs from different suppliers on the same axle. The coefficient of friction is affected by the levels of certain trace elements over which the foundry has no control. The difference can be enough to cause the brakes to pull to one side, although in practice it most likely won't be noticeable.

That's why discs are normally sold in pairs!

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Monday 10th May 2021
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All done, so much easier when you have the correct tools, came out quite easily in the end with a torx spanner despite me butchering it with a chisel.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 10th May 2021
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Although fasteners like that can be a pain, one good thing about star/torx, is the tools get a damn good grip of them.

scottyp123

Original Poster:

3,881 posts

55 months

Monday 10th May 2021
quotequote all
Even with a missing lug the spanner was rock solid on it, better than a ring spanner on a hex I must admit. I don't like female torx though, I've snapped a few bits over the years trying to undo them, then you have a piece of bit left inside the torx head you can't get out.