What car for three children?
Discussion
Managed to bag a VF V8 overnight, followed by an XC90 3.2 overnight. Both are plenty big enough. Back seat of the VF is marginally wider than the Volvo and provides more legroom, as well as being obviously the better thing to drive, no thirstier than the XC90, quicker, sharper and more modern.
All of which means we're getting the Volvo. Cannot beat that interior versatility, and it does feel better screwed together than the Holden. Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last. The availability of a manual might have made me more-forgiving and put up a stronger case for it, but in the end I need an easier life, and Mrs PB and the kids all preferred the Volvo. I think a little bit of me just went into a coma when I finished writing that.
The only good thing is that the 4.4V8 will cost about the same as the 3.2 six to buy, and from what I can find out, there's not a lot of difference in the running costs either. If you listen very carefully, you can hear my fingertips just brushing those pieces of straw...
All of which means we're getting the Volvo. Cannot beat that interior versatility, and it does feel better screwed together than the Holden. Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last. The availability of a manual might have made me more-forgiving and put up a stronger case for it, but in the end I need an easier life, and Mrs PB and the kids all preferred the Volvo. I think a little bit of me just went into a coma when I finished writing that.
The only good thing is that the 4.4V8 will cost about the same as the 3.2 six to buy, and from what I can find out, there's not a lot of difference in the running costs either. If you listen very carefully, you can hear my fingertips just brushing those pieces of straw...
ezakimak said:
Are you OK PB, do we need to send emergency supplies, its ok, Depression can be talked about, please don't do anything rash and stick around.
Ryan
Ryan
I've had a quick cry in my beer, and am not down and out yet. There are ways and means...Jader1973 said:
PomBstard said:
Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last.
What sort of things were wrong with it?No probs with the mechanicals - the only complaints would be related to coming from a lighter, more nimble car with a manual box. Some way to make the gearbox react quicker when in manual mode would be good.
Overall, I think its a bloody shame they didn't build a car to this standard 10 years ago.
PomBstard said:
ezakimak said:
Are you OK PB, do we need to send emergency supplies, its ok, Depression can be talked about, please don't do anything rash and stick around.
Ryan
Ryan
I've had a quick cry in my beer, and am not down and out yet. There are ways and means...Jader1973 said:
PomBstard said:
Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last.
What sort of things were wrong with it?No probs with the mechanicals - the only complaints would be related to coming from a lighter, more nimble car with a manual box. Some way to make the gearbox react quicker when in manual mode would be good.
Overall, I think its a bloody shame they didn't build a car to this standard 10 years ago.
You are right - it won't win against a Volvo (or Merc or BMW) when it comes to perceived quality.
And I agree - VF is everything VE should have been. If we'd released that in 2007 I suspect we wouldn't be stopping local production in 2 year's time.
PomBstard said:
Managed to bag a VF V8 overnight, followed by an XC90 3.2 overnight. Both are plenty big enough. Back seat of the VF is marginally wider than the Volvo and provides more legroom, as well as being obviously the better thing to drive, no thirstier than the XC90, quicker, sharper and more modern.
All of which means we're getting the Volvo. Cannot beat that interior versatility, and it does feel better screwed together than the Holden. Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last. The availability of a manual might have made me more-forgiving and put up a stronger case for it, but in the end I need an easier life, and Mrs PB and the kids all preferred the Volvo. I think a little bit of me just went into a coma when I finished writing that.
The only good thing is that the 4.4V8 will cost about the same as the 3.2 six to buy, and from what I can find out, there's not a lot of difference in the running costs either. If you listen very carefully, you can hear my fingertips just brushing those pieces of straw...
So, after a load of procrastination, that was that!All of which means we're getting the Volvo. Cannot beat that interior versatility, and it does feel better screwed together than the Holden. Whilst there is clear air between the VE and the VF in terms of cabin quality, there were still a few loose things and rough edges on a 2000km demonstrator that made me wonder how well the whole thing would last. The availability of a manual might have made me more-forgiving and put up a stronger case for it, but in the end I need an easier life, and Mrs PB and the kids all preferred the Volvo. I think a little bit of me just went into a coma when I finished writing that.
The only good thing is that the 4.4V8 will cost about the same as the 3.2 six to buy, and from what I can find out, there's not a lot of difference in the running costs either. If you listen very carefully, you can hear my fingertips just brushing those pieces of straw...
Especially after, earlier in this thread...
PomBstard said:
Also out of the running is the V70 - haven't managed to drive one yet, but found one to sit in and crawl over - smaller than I'd thought, and no third row option as AWD. Reports read suggest a ponderous, heavy beast that's not in the same vein as previous sporty Volvo wagons. Shame - the idea of an updated 850/V70 T5 really tickled me.
Which is why this car is now mine...
Really could not get it into my head that I needed a 7-seater, but I do need a big wagon. My client continues to procrstinate about buying more services, so I couldn't commit to a VF, and I just don't like the inside of the VE. Which left E class and V70. V70 just seems so much better value to me. Straight six 3.0 turbo, AWD, and comfy seats. Now, where are those slippers...???
PomBstard said:
Which is why this car is now mine...
Really could not get it into my head that I needed a 7-seater, but I do need a big wagon. My client continues to procrstinate about buying more services, so I couldn't commit to a VF, and I just don't like the inside of the VE. Which left E class and V70. V70 just seems so much better value to me. Straight six 3.0 turbo, AWD, and comfy seats. Now, where are those slippers...???
Nice choice.Really could not get it into my head that I needed a 7-seater, but I do need a big wagon. My client continues to procrstinate about buying more services, so I couldn't commit to a VF, and I just don't like the inside of the VE. Which left E class and V70. V70 just seems so much better value to me. Straight six 3.0 turbo, AWD, and comfy seats. Now, where are those slippers...???
Jader1973 said:
PomBstard said:
Bought a V70
Nice choice.
Its definitely a cruiser, and wouldn't see which way a VE/VF went on a twisty road, let alone the Lib, but it was cheap and it has its moments. For those interested, the rear seat built-in booster cushions are ace - the kids love using them and they save a huge amount of space across the seat - and the boot is vast. Conversation with Mrs PB managed to put off a 7-seater for at least a couple of years and almost got to a VF, but cashflow got in the way. In fact, if PHers want to see another V8 on the road, they can recommend me for some work ...Also, meant to respond to your point about perceived quality. Its a fair point, as someone who has owned/run a number of 80s/90s Peugeots I'm familiar with the idea that something might rattle but continue working perfectly well for a number of years. The Pugs me and Mrs PB had were never quiet, but parts rarely failed and the things never broke. Until someone drove into one with a 7-Series - but that took both cars out. I don't think the Volvo is as well-built as the Lib that went before it, and its probably no better built than a VF. It will however probably cost a bomb if/when stuff fails, and this was in mind when purchase price was agreed. Time will tell...
And not quite 8 months later...
I guess I'm not really a Volvo type of person. Never really got on with it, and just don't understand their appeal - it all seemed OK back in May, but now, I just don't get it.
Anyway, I'm also not a 7-seater kinda guy, but a friend has just taken his family travelling for a year and didn't want to sell this...
... so I offered to look after it, providing the perfect excuse for offing the V70. First impressions are that, apart from being vast - and I mean, goppingly huge, its actually easier to place than the Volvo and feels more car-like. Anyway, got it till Jan, so best get on with it!
As an aside, my mate has also asked me to look after or sell (v cheaply...
) his Outback - an 03 H6. Pootling around in that, its got a wonderfully mechanical feel to it, even with an outdated 4-sp slushbox. Seems so much more engaging than either the Mazda or the Volvo.
I guess I'm not really a Volvo type of person. Never really got on with it, and just don't understand their appeal - it all seemed OK back in May, but now, I just don't get it.
Anyway, I'm also not a 7-seater kinda guy, but a friend has just taken his family travelling for a year and didn't want to sell this...
... so I offered to look after it, providing the perfect excuse for offing the V70. First impressions are that, apart from being vast - and I mean, goppingly huge, its actually easier to place than the Volvo and feels more car-like. Anyway, got it till Jan, so best get on with it!
As an aside, my mate has also asked me to look after or sell (v cheaply...
) his Outback - an 03 H6. Pootling around in that, its got a wonderfully mechanical feel to it, even with an outdated 4-sp slushbox. Seems so much more engaging than either the Mazda or the Volvo.Rensko said:
Isn't the CX9 one thirsty car?
If I wanted a 7 seater - I'd for for a Territory Turbo. I hear they are stupidly quick and can handle a silly amount of power. Also, Octavia vRS wagons are getting stupidly cheap!
Territory Turbo would be much more thirsty than a CX9 I would think - probably near 15-17l/100km I would think If I wanted a 7 seater - I'd for for a Territory Turbo. I hear they are stupidly quick and can handle a silly amount of power. Also, Octavia vRS wagons are getting stupidly cheap!
Rensko said:
Isn't the CX9 one thirsty car?
If I wanted a 7 seater - I'd for for a Territory Turbo. I hear they are stupidly quick and can handle a silly amount of power. Also, Octavia vRS wagons are getting stupidly cheap!
CX9 seems to be around 15/16l/100km around town, which compares OK with the Volvo which does around 17/18 but on 98RON. The Volvo does around 9 on a run, and my mate reckons the Mazda will be around the same for a gentle highway cruise. In any case, its not much difference. Territory Turbo is going to be Volvo plus a bit I reckon - book figure is already 14l/100km compared to 12 for the V70.If I wanted a 7 seater - I'd for for a Territory Turbo. I hear they are stupidly quick and can handle a silly amount of power. Also, Octavia vRS wagons are getting stupidly cheap!
As for size, Octavia just ain't big enough for three kids in various car seats, without some form of hassle. In which case I'd get a Liberty... And I'm already looking a year ahead, when I'm down to just one car seat and wondering, if I put the booster in the middle can two kids without boosters sit comfortably either side in a Liberty STi
Well, couple of weeks in with the CX9 and a few thoughts re: use for kids and stuff...
As with others of its ilk, its only a 7 seater if noone brings any bags - boot space is severely limited with the rearmost seats up and definitely no room or the little'uns preferred Mountain Buggy. As a 6 seater it makes a bit more sense - load of boot space next to one of the rear seats.
Access to the rearmost seats is a pain in the arse if you put boosters or infant seats in the outer parts of the middle row.
There is plenty of space on the middle row for two boosters/infant seats and one adult to sit, but its not as much as you'd think.
Some children get carsick sitting in the rearmost seats. Usually the one that doesn't need a booster, so can take advantage of sitting right at the back. And then they'll want you to stop so they can get out of the boot.
The CX9 has top-tether mounts for the rearmost seats, but this means you then have zero boot space and the mounts are on the floor, by the rearmost edge.
At the moment, I feel totally vindicated in preferring a big wagon to a 7 seater.
As for the rest of the car...
Took it to Canberra and back yesterday - easily comfy enough for the trip. Fuel use was 10l/100km for the cruise and milling around the city - about 670km all up. On the freeway, 110kmh is 1800rpm and gearbox happy to kick down to get past that pesky dawdler that's just decided to speed up as you are alongside.
If you're in the market for one of these, make sure it has AWD - 200+kW, FWD, autobox and sharp TCS are not a happy combination for sharp acceleration into traffic - one hint of wheelspin and TCS puts it into second and the acceleration stops. Which is not fun the first time. Or the second. Or the third. You do start looking for bigger gaps, but after 10+years of AWD/RWD its not a habit that's coming easily.
Otherwise, its easy to live with - like a big Mazda3 really. Piece of cake to maneuver and park, and doesn't feel like it'll break too easily.
Bloody hell - child seats, fuel economy and manouvrabilty - what has my life come to???
As with others of its ilk, its only a 7 seater if noone brings any bags - boot space is severely limited with the rearmost seats up and definitely no room or the little'uns preferred Mountain Buggy. As a 6 seater it makes a bit more sense - load of boot space next to one of the rear seats.
Access to the rearmost seats is a pain in the arse if you put boosters or infant seats in the outer parts of the middle row.
There is plenty of space on the middle row for two boosters/infant seats and one adult to sit, but its not as much as you'd think.
Some children get carsick sitting in the rearmost seats. Usually the one that doesn't need a booster, so can take advantage of sitting right at the back. And then they'll want you to stop so they can get out of the boot.
The CX9 has top-tether mounts for the rearmost seats, but this means you then have zero boot space and the mounts are on the floor, by the rearmost edge.
At the moment, I feel totally vindicated in preferring a big wagon to a 7 seater.
As for the rest of the car...
Took it to Canberra and back yesterday - easily comfy enough for the trip. Fuel use was 10l/100km for the cruise and milling around the city - about 670km all up. On the freeway, 110kmh is 1800rpm and gearbox happy to kick down to get past that pesky dawdler that's just decided to speed up as you are alongside.
If you're in the market for one of these, make sure it has AWD - 200+kW, FWD, autobox and sharp TCS are not a happy combination for sharp acceleration into traffic - one hint of wheelspin and TCS puts it into second and the acceleration stops. Which is not fun the first time. Or the second. Or the third. You do start looking for bigger gaps, but after 10+years of AWD/RWD its not a habit that's coming easily.
Otherwise, its easy to live with - like a big Mazda3 really. Piece of cake to maneuver and park, and doesn't feel like it'll break too easily.
Bloody hell - child seats, fuel economy and manouvrabilty - what has my life come to???
Right, time for me to get thinking again. The Mazda goes back mid-Jan, so will need to be on the hunt soon'ish, and could do with a quick check of the likely candidates...
VF Commodore wagon - I think top of the list and would like a 6.2 but with my recent contributions to GoogleBot's beer fund and Buchanan's retirement fund, budget may not quite stretch to one of these. I'm sure a 6.0 would suffice but would I notice any difference between that and the 3.6V6 in the real world??
Probably not - any views?? Jader - you've had all three, I think...
CX9 - I can see the appeal, it has pain and pleasure in equal amounts, and that amount being zero. It has really been painfree motoring, and I can see the appeal but is also just a large FWD hatchback. Nice engine, sweet and smooth, if a bit thirsty. Still 200kW and 2.2t was never going to be efficient. I just don't need that third row. We've not used it in 8 months, so other 7-seaters are off. Was nice not to have to plan how to pack the boot though.
I reckon an E60 530i is likely to be getting close to needing a decent level of maintenance now, and don't think I can stretch to an F-series. Might take a nose at an Octavia - had a hatch recently as a hire car and whilst that particular version was slightly duller than a winter's day in Sheffield, it did seem roomier than I thought. Not really convinced its wide enough. Same for the Mazda6 wagon.
Gen5 Liberty GT? I think the newest is now 4-5 years old. Newer Outback - not really tried one, but always found older ones a bit ponderous, almost (but not quite) Volvo-like.
Preference is for large wagon over SUV/4WD - so what else is out there???
Budget is likely to be $35-40k tops, perhaps a bit less, and likely to keep for 4-5 years this time, at which point the kids will be aged 8-14 so will need a rethink then anyway. No 10-y-o E55 AMGs please, I know its not your money, its mine. Also, no diesels, and torque-converter auto over DSG. Ta!
VF Commodore wagon - I think top of the list and would like a 6.2 but with my recent contributions to GoogleBot's beer fund and Buchanan's retirement fund, budget may not quite stretch to one of these. I'm sure a 6.0 would suffice but would I notice any difference between that and the 3.6V6 in the real world??
Probably not - any views?? Jader - you've had all three, I think...
CX9 - I can see the appeal, it has pain and pleasure in equal amounts, and that amount being zero. It has really been painfree motoring, and I can see the appeal but is also just a large FWD hatchback. Nice engine, sweet and smooth, if a bit thirsty. Still 200kW and 2.2t was never going to be efficient. I just don't need that third row. We've not used it in 8 months, so other 7-seaters are off. Was nice not to have to plan how to pack the boot though.
I reckon an E60 530i is likely to be getting close to needing a decent level of maintenance now, and don't think I can stretch to an F-series. Might take a nose at an Octavia - had a hatch recently as a hire car and whilst that particular version was slightly duller than a winter's day in Sheffield, it did seem roomier than I thought. Not really convinced its wide enough. Same for the Mazda6 wagon.
Gen5 Liberty GT? I think the newest is now 4-5 years old. Newer Outback - not really tried one, but always found older ones a bit ponderous, almost (but not quite) Volvo-like.
Preference is for large wagon over SUV/4WD - so what else is out there???
Budget is likely to be $35-40k tops, perhaps a bit less, and likely to keep for 4-5 years this time, at which point the kids will be aged 8-14 so will need a rethink then anyway. No 10-y-o E55 AMGs please, I know its not your money, its mine. Also, no diesels, and torque-converter auto over DSG. Ta!
I have a 2010 Mazda 6 wagon with 160,000 on the clock. Back in the UK I had a 2007 Octavia wagon and frequently drove a 2010 Mondeo company vehicle.
- The soft-touch dashboard covering on the passenger side has melted in the sun. Its sticky and gooey and messy for 5cm back from the windscreen. Google melting mazda dash before buying one - This is my biggest problem with the car as it is basically un-fixable without removing the entire dash!
- Check the recall websites. Some of them need a new engine - I think its a piston ring issue
- Airbags need changing under warranty unless you want shrapnel in your face during an accident.
- Dull drive - The Mondeo 2.0 diesel was more fun despite being closely related to the 6
- Slowest 2.5 engine I've ever driven, engine sounds OK for the last 1000rpm before redline otherwise boring.
- 9.6l/100km on 98 RON (I dont pay for fuel)
- Gearbox very occasionally gets the s
ts and changes down for a millisecond before going back again, does it once every 3 months or so with no fault codes recorded.
- Multiple little electrical niggles
- Un-traceable knock from front suspension.
- Steering wheel stereo controls are stupid other than for volume control, much much faster to reach over and press the buttons. The tiny one line info display screen is pointless. Mondeo and Octavia are a lot better.
- All seats still nice and firm after 160,000km. More supportive than the Octavia which had similar mileage.
- Rear space is good and seats are comfy.
- Child seat restraints are at the base of the back seats, in the boot - So with an extension strap its easy to restrain the top of a baby seat whilst retaining boot space and boot cover/curtain.
- Boot curtain attaches to the boot lid and sliding lugs on the rear pillars and lifts up when you open the boot. This is a lot better than my Octavia was as that stayed put when the boot was opened.
- Octavia have a massive under-floor storage section in the boot (I had a non-VRS model, VRS didnt have this)
- Boot space is good, if its any different to my old UK Octavia there's not much in it.
- With the electric window child lock button engaged on the drivers door, you cant operate any windows other than your own - This is stupid, you should still be able to open all windows from the driver's seat even with the lock engaged.
- If you stop and turn off the ignition you cant close the windows without ignition on. In an Octavia you can roll them up with the key removed before you open the door or even from outside by pressing and holding the remote lock button. Octavia also allows you to roll them down by pressing the unlock button on the remote.
- In an Octavia you can lock yourself in, then it un-locks when you pull the handle to get out - On the Mazda you have to use the unlock button. Sounds like a minor issue but its annoying if you do any city night driving or otherwise feel the need to lock yourself in.
- No creaks or rattles
- 6 Disc in-dash changer that plays MP3 files but the display is too small and too slow to navigate to bother loading too many albums onto one disc so I dont bother with MP3 anymore - Just copy CDs.
- Octavia had a mini sun visor to fill the gap between roof and interior mirror - Doesnt sound like much but I'd love one in the Mazda
- Headlamp lenses are yellowing on the inside due to the sun, they're staring to look pretty shabby.
- Despite having some fancy wizz bang paint protector on it and regular washing and care, the paint on the plastic "spoiler" above the rear windscreen is discolouring and starting to look blotchy.
- Only fault I ever had with the Octavia was a split vacuum hose despite it being remapped.
Thanks for that lot - had forgotten about the Superb, which apparently can be had with AWD and the 3.6-litre engine. My main concern will be the DSG box. Three of my friends have late-model (2013-on) Passats, and all three have had gearbox probs, two of which completely disabled the car - those two are both AWD. Might have to ask them a bit more about what happened.
Of course, unlikely as it might be, if we can fit in the Octavia, then that can be had with the 6-sp manual...
Anyway, a trip to the Skoda dealer beckons.
The thing I'm struggling to think of are decent, large, quickish wagons that aren't German (and that includes Skoda), Holden or Volvo, and I'm off swede... Subaru used to be in this, but I don't think Toyota, Mazda or Honda have ever bothered. Nissan had the Stagea years ago. A short shortlist.
Just thought of one more - Ford Mondeo - new ones, with the 2.0 Ecoboost engine. Supposed to be quite big inside, anyone driven one??
Of course, unlikely as it might be, if we can fit in the Octavia, then that can be had with the 6-sp manual...
Anyway, a trip to the Skoda dealer beckons.
The thing I'm struggling to think of are decent, large, quickish wagons that aren't German (and that includes Skoda), Holden or Volvo, and I'm off swede... Subaru used to be in this, but I don't think Toyota, Mazda or Honda have ever bothered. Nissan had the Stagea years ago. A short shortlist.
Just thought of one more - Ford Mondeo - new ones, with the 2.0 Ecoboost engine. Supposed to be quite big inside, anyone driven one??
Edited by PomBstard on Tuesday 11th October 23:10
The DSG in the VRS at least is the 6spd version which is a lot more reliable than the 7spd. Advice from a mate who is a indie mechanic is don't touch the 7spd, the 6spd in the GTI etc has had the bugs ironed out of it.
I think it's the same in the Superb.
you looking new or secondhand?
I'm being lazy and putting down some cash for a DSG Octavia wagon in the next couple of days. Nothing else ticks as many boxes, and it has a pretty big interior in the new model. Might be big enough?
I think it's the same in the Superb.
you looking new or secondhand?
I'm being lazy and putting down some cash for a DSG Octavia wagon in the next couple of days. Nothing else ticks as many boxes, and it has a pretty big interior in the new model. Might be big enough?
Yep - Superb 3.6 is a 6-sp box. Will give the Skoda a whirl anyway. Be good to hear how you get on with yours, albeit sans three kids!
Much as the sound of an Octavia VRS appeals , I don't really want to squeeze us into a car now to find we've outgrown it in a year or two. A bloke I work with has three aged 10-16 and has just bought an IMAX - need to plan to avoid that too...
Much as the sound of an Octavia VRS appeals , I don't really want to squeeze us into a car now to find we've outgrown it in a year or two. A bloke I work with has three aged 10-16 and has just bought an IMAX - need to plan to avoid that too...
PomBstard said:
Yep - Superb 3.6 is a 6-sp box. Will give the Skoda a whirl anyway. Be good to hear how you get on with yours, albeit sans three kids!
Much as the sound of an Octavia VRS appeals , I don't really want to squeeze us into a car now to find we've outgrown it in a year or two. A bloke I work with has three aged 10-16 and has just bought an IMAX - need to plan to avoid that too...
We have a rescue greyhound instead. Soon to be 2. She doesn't fit too well in the back of a Citroen DS3. Much as the sound of an Octavia VRS appeals , I don't really want to squeeze us into a car now to find we've outgrown it in a year or two. A bloke I work with has three aged 10-16 and has just bought an IMAX - need to plan to avoid that too...
I have a huge soft spot for big Euro barges like the Pug 607, Citroen C6 and the Superb. Have a client who has the 118 sedan and loves it to bits. I'm assuming the 3.6 is better. It's a great engine in the R36 etc.
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