Lotus:- The End?
Discussion
Just wanted to comment on the rumour circulating that Aston Martin is interested in buying Group Lotus.
This may have been generated from the concern Aston Martin must have for a continued uninterupted supply of chassis for their product line up, as Lotus Lightweight structures in Bromyard are currently their only supplier.
If Lotus suddenly go to the wall a sudden stoppage of chassis supply would greatly impact AM.
However would Dave Richards and Co. (the Arabs) be prepared to take on the massive debts of Group Lotus to gain control of Lotus Lightweight Structures?
I would think it may be alot cheaper for AM to build their own factory to produce the chassis "in house" than to inherit DRB's mess, unless they are just playing a waiting game , which may be a big risk for them.
This may have been generated from the concern Aston Martin must have for a continued uninterupted supply of chassis for their product line up, as Lotus Lightweight structures in Bromyard are currently their only supplier.
If Lotus suddenly go to the wall a sudden stoppage of chassis supply would greatly impact AM.
However would Dave Richards and Co. (the Arabs) be prepared to take on the massive debts of Group Lotus to gain control of Lotus Lightweight Structures?
I would think it may be alot cheaper for AM to build their own factory to produce the chassis "in house" than to inherit DRB's mess, unless they are just playing a waiting game , which may be a big risk for them.
Edited by WayneB on Monday 29th October 17:50
WayneB said:
Just wanted to comment on the rumour circulating that Aston Martin is interested in buying Group Lotus.
This may have been generated from the concern Aston Martin must have for a continued uninterupted supply of chassis for their product line up, as Lotus Lightweight structures in Bromyard are currently their only supplier.
If Lotus suddenly go to the wall a sudden stoppage of chassis supply would greatly impact AM.
However would Dave Richards and Co. (the Arabs) be prepared to take on the massive debts of Group Lotus to gain control of Lotus Lightweight Structures?
I would think it may be alot cheaper for AM to build their own factory to produce the chassis "in house" than to inherit DRB's mess, unless they are just playing a waiting game , which may be a big risk for them.
Well, perhaps the Lotus V8 engine, once under development (and 'teased' here: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lotus-esprit-new...) might be a reasonably sound buy-in for AM? The current engines can't last forever.This may have been generated from the concern Aston Martin must have for a continued uninterupted supply of chassis for their product line up, as Lotus Lightweight structures in Bromyard are currently their only supplier.
If Lotus suddenly go to the wall a sudden stoppage of chassis supply would greatly impact AM.
However would Dave Richards and Co. (the Arabs) be prepared to take on the massive debts of Group Lotus to gain control of Lotus Lightweight Structures?
I would think it may be alot cheaper for AM to build their own factory to produce the chassis "in house" than to inherit DRB's mess, unless they are just playing a waiting game , which may be a big risk for them.
Edited by WayneB on Monday 29th October 17:50
skwdenyer said:
Well, perhaps the Lotus V8 engine, once under development (and 'teased' here: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lotus-esprit-new...) might be a reasonably sound buy-in for AM? The current engines can't last forever.
based on what?it was not even designed by Lotus, and certainly not as a road car engine.
Scuffers said:
skwdenyer said:
Well, perhaps the Lotus V8 engine, once under development (and 'teased' here: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lotus-esprit-new...) might be a reasonably sound buy-in for AM? The current engines can't last forever.
based on what?it was not even designed by Lotus, and certainly not as a road car engine.
Analysis from Skidmark on the recent 'good news' in last week's Autoexpress.
http://skiddmark.com/2012/10/drb-hicom-and-lotus/
And an interesting development at Proton -
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/10...
With the NSX due next year I now wonder what future for new Esprit? And Toyota engine supply?
Now I'm really confused.
http://skiddmark.com/2012/10/drb-hicom-and-lotus/
And an interesting development at Proton -
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/10...
With the NSX due next year I now wonder what future for new Esprit? And Toyota engine supply?
Now I'm really confused.
interesting that he puts a negative spin on what is essentially a positive story ...
indecently is this guy actually an autos analyst (ie someone that actually understand the sector) or in reality a media analyst that just likes cars. i have dealt with a few of the former and they certainly don't report like that / they wouldn't last 5 minutes if they did ....
if a total farce like lotus can sell 600 units into the emerging market at the peak of its recent demise with a credit line and consumer confidence back into the brand it could triple that number .. here are the only bits that count the rest is his opinion.
'Production at Lotus has restarted again, with the company starting to clear the 600-car backlog that’s built up since January'.
'The consortium of six financial institutions (CIMB Bank Bhd, Malayan Banking Bhd, Overseas-Chinese Banking Corp Ltd, Export-Import Bank of Malaysia Bhd, Affin Bank Bhd and Hong Leong Bank), have now been appeased and will not be pulling the credit already drawn down by Lotus.
However, neither will they be releasing the remainder of the £270m loan until such time as long-term plans are finalised and agreed. This is scheduled to occur by the end of the year or early in 2013...''.
indecently is this guy actually an autos analyst (ie someone that actually understand the sector) or in reality a media analyst that just likes cars. i have dealt with a few of the former and they certainly don't report like that / they wouldn't last 5 minutes if they did ....
if a total farce like lotus can sell 600 units into the emerging market at the peak of its recent demise with a credit line and consumer confidence back into the brand it could triple that number .. here are the only bits that count the rest is his opinion.
'Production at Lotus has restarted again, with the company starting to clear the 600-car backlog that’s built up since January'.
'The consortium of six financial institutions (CIMB Bank Bhd, Malayan Banking Bhd, Overseas-Chinese Banking Corp Ltd, Export-Import Bank of Malaysia Bhd, Affin Bank Bhd and Hong Leong Bank), have now been appeased and will not be pulling the credit already drawn down by Lotus.
However, neither will they be releasing the remainder of the £270m loan until such time as long-term plans are finalised and agreed. This is scheduled to occur by the end of the year or early in 2013...''.
Edited by bobo on Tuesday 30th October 01:05
bobo said:
interesting that he puts a negative spin on what is essentially a positive story ...
I would suggest quite the opposite...the sorry had already been spun out twice with different headlines.... one negative, one positive..
All this guy has done is pick it apart with some real facts.
well yes the lotus story overall is negative, we are all aware of the negative data/fundamentals hes regurgitating, that story hasn't changed for god knows how long so wheres his value? .... but the real news he is reporting on is actually positive.
the single overriding factor for the co is the credit line. nothing else at this stage matters, absolutely nothing else, not even the number of back orders. the fact that it hasn't been pulled and the fact that they are allegedly building cars again is certainly not negative.
only a month ago the credit line was uncertain, the workforce unpaid sitting idle, suppliers refusing to send parts etc.
look i'm not a delusional rose tinted fan boy but even you must acknowledged to have its short term future being guaranteed up to the point of agreement of the main credit line in 2013 and getting the co allegedly building cars again is the overriding factor here. that what sets the tone, positive or negative.
its long term future i.e whether it is 'safe' is beyond the capabilities of his crystal ball and ours ...
he sounds very much to me like an analyst that doesn't actually understand his sector ....
the single overriding factor for the co is the credit line. nothing else at this stage matters, absolutely nothing else, not even the number of back orders. the fact that it hasn't been pulled and the fact that they are allegedly building cars again is certainly not negative.
only a month ago the credit line was uncertain, the workforce unpaid sitting idle, suppliers refusing to send parts etc.
look i'm not a delusional rose tinted fan boy but even you must acknowledged to have its short term future being guaranteed up to the point of agreement of the main credit line in 2013 and getting the co allegedly building cars again is the overriding factor here. that what sets the tone, positive or negative.
its long term future i.e whether it is 'safe' is beyond the capabilities of his crystal ball and ours ...
he sounds very much to me like an analyst that doesn't actually understand his sector ....
Scuffers said:
I would suggest quite the opposite...
the sorry had already been spun out twice with different headlines.... one negative, one positive..
All this guy has done is pick it apart with some real facts.
the sorry had already been spun out twice with different headlines.... one negative, one positive..
All this guy has done is pick it apart with some real facts.
Edited by bobo on Tuesday 30th October 09:08
we are saying the same thing.... the difference being its been confirmed where a month ago it wasn't.
think of the situation/uncertainty of the backers calling in funds. that would be the title of the thread as in 'the end'.
think of the situation/uncertainty of the backers calling in funds. that would be the title of the thread as in 'the end'.
skwdenyer said:
Bobo: the credit line isn't safe, in fact the credit line is not available right now. However the banks do not right now want the already-lent money back.
Edited by bobo on Tuesday 30th October 15:10
Stelvio1 said:
Heard a rumour that a certain Mr Bahar is fronting a consortium to make a play for Lotus 
Thought I just heard a loud squeal of delight from the direction of Montreal where Gino Rosato is currently living in his moms basement. :lol: Edited by WayneB on Wednesday 31st October 18:44
skwdenyer said:
Well, perhaps the Lotus V8 engine, once under development (and 'teased' here: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lotus-esprit-new...) might be a reasonably sound buy-in for AM? The current engines can't last forever.
You will have to excuse me, I just spat my tea out laughing after reading that.I dont think the HWA/DTM/Ferrari replica engine was good enough for a Lotus let alone an Aston Martin.
On a serious note though, I dont doubt the chaps at Lotus Engineering could design a great state of the art cleansheet engine for Aston Martin, as long as they could pay for it and afford to tool up for production and testing etc.
There is a small glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
The new evo has just arrived. The Exige S TIES for first place with the Pagani Huarya in their Car of The Year test, after trouncing plenty of other exotic machinery including a couple of Porsches and the McLaren.
With positive reviews of the Evora 414E (the underpinnings of the Infiniti Emerg-e which is their Concept of the Year), a Tesla on an iced up lake in the far North where it fairs well and a double page ad for the Exige S (which I hope indicates they are ready to start delivering) this issue is all positive news for Lotus. Well, better than we've had in recent weeks anyway.
So, lets keep everything crossed and hope they go into 2013 in good shape. Life without Lotus is to harsh to think about.
The new evo has just arrived. The Exige S TIES for first place with the Pagani Huarya in their Car of The Year test, after trouncing plenty of other exotic machinery including a couple of Porsches and the McLaren.
With positive reviews of the Evora 414E (the underpinnings of the Infiniti Emerg-e which is their Concept of the Year), a Tesla on an iced up lake in the far North where it fairs well and a double page ad for the Exige S (which I hope indicates they are ready to start delivering) this issue is all positive news for Lotus. Well, better than we've had in recent weeks anyway.
So, lets keep everything crossed and hope they go into 2013 in good shape. Life without Lotus is to harsh to think about.
WayneB said:
skwdenyer said:
Well, perhaps the Lotus V8 engine, once under development (and 'teased' here: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/lotus-esprit-new...) might be a reasonably sound buy-in for AM? The current engines can't last forever.
You will have to excuse me, I just spat my tea out laughing after reading that.I dont think the HWA/DTM/Ferrari replica engine was good enough for a Lotus let alone an Aston Martin.
On a serious note though, I dont doubt the chaps at Lotus Engineering could design a great state of the art cleansheet engine for Aston Martin, as long as they could pay for it and afford to tool up for production and testing etc.
Ideal? Hell no. But an additional angle to any potential tie-up.
skwdenyer said:
Unlike any cleansheet engine, the 'Lotus' engine did at least exist. Was it any good? I don't know; do you? I suggested, by implication, that it might be, given its intended use. The economies of scale which could be brought by combining Lotus' and Aston's engine needs would be beneficial to development budgets, too.
Ideal? Hell no. But an additional angle to any potential tie-up.
sorry, but that's just laughably tenus....Ideal? Hell no. But an additional angle to any potential tie-up.
not sure you really get what's required to design an engine these days, it's nothing like it was 20-30 years ago, to meet all the current and near future regs on emissions etc requires a massive amount of work.
even if Lotus had the cash, I don't think they have the capabilities to do a clean-sheet engine these days (without hiring/contracting in significant staff).
in this day and age, no manufacturer can afford to design new engines without either going into partnership with other OEM's or having sufficient target volumes to justify the costs involved.
for example, BMW are hardly a small OEM, but they brought the engine in for the Mini (hardly a low-volume car itself).
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