1969 Maserati Ghibli - The Resurection
Discussion
Chad speed said:
Hi Mr B
The comments regarding Surface Processing dip 'n' strip came from a good friend who is an epic home classic car restorer (Mercedes 600 Grosser, Maserati Ghibli and Merak, Alfa Giulietta, Innocenti Mini, Citroen H van to name but a few, I think he has over 10 on the go at the moment!) so if I personally were to take someone's word it would be his. Misunderstandings do happen however and wires can get crossed so I'll drop him a line to make sure.
Please start a thread on the M3 and be sure to take a good deal of photo's like I didn't, good luck with the project.
Many thanks. As I say , was pretty much settled on using SP, despite lots of cases were their handling of the shell put dents into some panels. That I could take my chances with if there was no issues that will have a serious impact later on. All info is good info.The comments regarding Surface Processing dip 'n' strip came from a good friend who is an epic home classic car restorer (Mercedes 600 Grosser, Maserati Ghibli and Merak, Alfa Giulietta, Innocenti Mini, Citroen H van to name but a few, I think he has over 10 on the go at the moment!) so if I personally were to take someone's word it would be his. Misunderstandings do happen however and wires can get crossed so I'll drop him a line to make sure.
Please start a thread on the M3 and be sure to take a good deal of photo's like I didn't, good luck with the project.
When, or maybe if, I ever get the M3 restoration started, I will make a thread and try to document it as best I can. Thanks for sharing.
Mr_B said:
Chad speed said:
Hi Mr B
The comments regarding Surface Processing dip 'n' strip came from a good friend who is an epic home classic car restorer (Mercedes 600 Grosser, Maserati Ghibli and Merak, Alfa Giulietta, Innocenti Mini, Citroen H van to name but a few, I think he has over 10 on the go at the moment!) so if I personally were to take someone's word it would be his. Misunderstandings do happen however and wires can get crossed so I'll drop him a line to make sure.
Please start a thread on the M3 and be sure to take a good deal of photo's like I didn't, good luck with the project.
Many thanks. As I say , was pretty much settled on using SP, despite lots of cases were their handling of the shell put dents into some panels. That I could take my chances with if there was no issues that will have a serious impact later on. All info is good info.The comments regarding Surface Processing dip 'n' strip came from a good friend who is an epic home classic car restorer (Mercedes 600 Grosser, Maserati Ghibli and Merak, Alfa Giulietta, Innocenti Mini, Citroen H van to name but a few, I think he has over 10 on the go at the moment!) so if I personally were to take someone's word it would be his. Misunderstandings do happen however and wires can get crossed so I'll drop him a line to make sure.
Please start a thread on the M3 and be sure to take a good deal of photo's like I didn't, good luck with the project.
When, or maybe if, I ever get the M3 restoration started, I will make a thread and try to document it as best I can. Thanks for sharing.
'Surface Processing are good. They did the Ghibli and the Merc which I have had only a minute amount of bleeding on the front chassis legs after i painted it. It hasn't got worse and I will just touch it up. The Ghibli is a different kettle of fish. When they first did it they were a bit raw having started up relatively recently to my enquiry. It slipped on the forklift if you remember and they damaged the nose and rear panel. Since then they have introduced cages into which they strap the cars so this should not happen although they have to get the car into the cage. On the second occasion I delivered the car on a steel frame which stayed with the car for the whole process. This had a couple of steel sections for the forks so they did not touch the body. The first time they did it I had a lot of trouble with bleeding so they did it again free of charge. The trick is to make sure all the chassis tubes are drilled to let the chemical out. The guy should do it to make sure they are symmetrical and of a suitable size to take a grommet for waxing the inside of the tube. I made 10mm holes at each end of all the tubes and also in the rear turrets. They will look over the car and may make more holes which he can then weld up. They are meant to rinse the car very thoroughly which they must have done as the second dipping process did not flare up. I did have it e-coated which itself has a few dipping processes so this may have helped. If the shell is dipped i would definitely recommend it be e-coated as you will never get paint to all the nooks and crannies, but do all the repairs first and then get it dipped. The Merc cost me £2000 for strip and e-coat. I would think the Ghibli would be about the same cost now. If he decides to go ahead tell him not to give them any panels that are ali - they will dissolve! If I were doing another project that would warrant the expense i would use them again.'
Chad speed said:
Well it seems that I was only partially correct on my impression of Surface Processing as I only knew the first part of the story so I'm happy to add some further information. Here's what our epic restorer has to say about his experiences with them:
'Surface Processing are good. They did the Ghibli and the Merc which I have had only a minute amount of bleeding on the front chassis legs after i painted it. It hasn't got worse and I will just touch it up. The Ghibli is a different kettle of fish. When they first did it they were a bit raw having started up relatively recently to my enquiry. It slipped on the forklift if you remember and they damaged the nose and rear panel. Since then they have introduced cages into which they strap the cars so this should not happen although they have to get the car into the cage. On the second occasion I delivered the car on a steel frame which stayed with the car for the whole process. This had a couple of steel sections for the forks so they did not touch the body. The first time they did it I had a lot of trouble with bleeding so they did it again free of charge. The trick is to make sure all the chassis tubes are drilled to let the chemical out. The guy should do it to make sure they are symmetrical and of a suitable size to take a grommet for waxing the inside of the tube. I made 10mm holes at each end of all the tubes and also in the rear turrets. They will look over the car and may make more holes which he can then weld up. They are meant to rinse the car very thoroughly which they must have done as the second dipping process did not flare up. I did have it e-coated which itself has a few dipping processes so this may have helped. If the shell is dipped i would definitely recommend it be e-coated as you will never get paint to all the nooks and crannies, but do all the repairs first and then get it dipped. The Merc cost me £2000 for strip and e-coat. I would think the Ghibli would be about the same cost now. If he decides to go ahead tell him not to give them any panels that are ali - they will dissolve! If I were doing another project that would warrant the expense i would use them again.'
Many thanks for taking time out to ask your friend, and for reporting back.'Surface Processing are good. They did the Ghibli and the Merc which I have had only a minute amount of bleeding on the front chassis legs after i painted it. It hasn't got worse and I will just touch it up. The Ghibli is a different kettle of fish. When they first did it they were a bit raw having started up relatively recently to my enquiry. It slipped on the forklift if you remember and they damaged the nose and rear panel. Since then they have introduced cages into which they strap the cars so this should not happen although they have to get the car into the cage. On the second occasion I delivered the car on a steel frame which stayed with the car for the whole process. This had a couple of steel sections for the forks so they did not touch the body. The first time they did it I had a lot of trouble with bleeding so they did it again free of charge. The trick is to make sure all the chassis tubes are drilled to let the chemical out. The guy should do it to make sure they are symmetrical and of a suitable size to take a grommet for waxing the inside of the tube. I made 10mm holes at each end of all the tubes and also in the rear turrets. They will look over the car and may make more holes which he can then weld up. They are meant to rinse the car very thoroughly which they must have done as the second dipping process did not flare up. I did have it e-coated which itself has a few dipping processes so this may have helped. If the shell is dipped i would definitely recommend it be e-coated as you will never get paint to all the nooks and crannies, but do all the repairs first and then get it dipped. The Merc cost me £2000 for strip and e-coat. I would think the Ghibli would be about the same cost now. If he decides to go ahead tell him not to give them any panels that are ali - they will dissolve! If I were doing another project that would warrant the expense i would use them again.'
It has been very hard to get accurate reports back, and to clear up the few negative reports. Some report problems after having the car dipped but then no e-coated, but neglect to tell you this. That is something I would never consider and like our freind says, getting paint in to chassis rails and the like to going to be very hard. Others have the car dipped and have had it sat there a year and not done anything to it and again, never e-coated. It's good to hear your friends view is still positive and that he would use them again.
Here's a couple of links to other M3 owners that have had the SPL treatment. The first one being a rather epic read in how to home restore a M3 and very kindly document it for fellow owners.
http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?37916-E30...
http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?38762-Ste...
GIB5000 was owned by Stafford Buck from Fleckney I think. As my brother recalls his red car made a big impression and a great noise. It was chopped and painted black - last seen at a dealer in Holland.
I'm the second custodian of my SS originally registered DOJ1C and Ischia blue now GIB1155 and repainted Sera blue in the 80s. Never been apart and exercised regularly. Hope there's still fuel about for my kids to enjoy it.
I'm the second custodian of my SS originally registered DOJ1C and Ischia blue now GIB1155 and repainted Sera blue in the 80s. Never been apart and exercised regularly. Hope there's still fuel about for my kids to enjoy it.
neutral 3 said:
This photo 100 of me with AM 115 100 ( one of several ) was taken at High Beach in Epping forest, i beleive in late 1974. My Mum found this yesterday in an Album, i have others but they are "Somewhere" in her loft.
I drove past this very spot yesterday.
Did you have any problems operating the pedals in those flares
. Probably one period accessory I wont be seeking out when mines on the road.Chad speed said:
What a fantastic photo Richard, thanks for sharing. I can just imagine you cruising on a warm summers day, window down with the Eagles 'life's been good' on the 8-track (the first line of verse 3 always make me snigger).
Did you have any problems operating the pedals in those flares. Probably one period accessory I wont be seeking out when mines on the road.
Flares would be fine - but combination of flares and platform soled boots was always a dangerous combination for driving! Did you have any problems operating the pedals in those flares
. Probably one period accessory I wont be seeking out when mines on the road.Chad speed said:
What a fantastic photo Richard, thanks for sharing. I can just imagine you cruising on a warm summers day, window down with the Eagles 'life's been good' on the 8-track (the first line of verse 3 always make me snigger).
Did you have any problems operating the pedals in those flares. Probably one period accessory I wont be seeking out when mines on the road.
Joe Walsh, not the Eagles! Did you have any problems operating the pedals in those flares
. Probably one period accessory I wont be seeking out when mines on the road.
Lol, glad you liked the photo ! I remember that day Very clearly .
A few more memories, when it was on the way here on the boat, someone got in and had a "fiddle around ", from memory they broke the electric arial switch and did some other damage.
Re the Radio, it was fitted with a very expensive Bluespot Self Seeking Radio Cassette player. When my dad dropped it over somewhere in London on the Saturday, to have the clutch sorted , it had a lot of my Cassetes in it.
When the Garage found out my dad had died some T..... there rifled through the car taking the Cassetes and various other things from it.
My dad had an Ivory gear knob specially made for it. The interior of that car was beautifully trimmed, the dark tan leather was of Top quality.
The dash top was also trimmed in leather at the first owners request as I beleive it should have been Alcantara ?
The o side door lower edge was bubbling up, in a couple of places and I remember he nudged the front corner trying to get it in the garage one night. The paint on that car was very thick, ime guessing Maserati paid special attention to the build quality of the early ones .
The Factory arranged shipping of it by boat straight to the first owners door !
The windscreen was leaking in the corners and I remember my dad useing leak seal to try to seal it. Aparently no one could guarantee getting the screen out without breaking it and had quoted 300 quid for a new one , lot of money then.
A few more memories, when it was on the way here on the boat, someone got in and had a "fiddle around ", from memory they broke the electric arial switch and did some other damage.
Re the Radio, it was fitted with a very expensive Bluespot Self Seeking Radio Cassette player. When my dad dropped it over somewhere in London on the Saturday, to have the clutch sorted , it had a lot of my Cassetes in it.
When the Garage found out my dad had died some T..... there rifled through the car taking the Cassetes and various other things from it.
My dad had an Ivory gear knob specially made for it. The interior of that car was beautifully trimmed, the dark tan leather was of Top quality.
The dash top was also trimmed in leather at the first owners request as I beleive it should have been Alcantara ?
The o side door lower edge was bubbling up, in a couple of places and I remember he nudged the front corner trying to get it in the garage one night. The paint on that car was very thick, ime guessing Maserati paid special attention to the build quality of the early ones .
The Factory arranged shipping of it by boat straight to the first owners door !
The windscreen was leaking in the corners and I remember my dad useing leak seal to try to seal it. Aparently no one could guarantee getting the screen out without breaking it and had quoted 300 quid for a new one , lot of money then.
The rust continues, this is the bonnet:
Old filler wire brushed off and skin removed from frame
Frame totally shot and was remade
Rust was only where the frame touched the skin and held water between the two
Sections cut out and new ones made and welded in, 5 in total.
Sadly pictures of the new frame and completed skin were lost when transferring from camera to PC but I’ll try and take a picture of the completed panel in primer.
Finished bonnet in primer
Found one of the weld samples, welding the thinned bonnet skin was a bit of a pig, even TIG blew holes in it. Finally achieved it by carefully using MIG in the underside as shown then welding more easily from the top side. That's not silver paint its just been bead blasted to show up weld imperfections.
Old filler wire brushed off and skin removed from frame
Frame totally shot and was remade
Rust was only where the frame touched the skin and held water between the two
Sections cut out and new ones made and welded in, 5 in total.
Sadly pictures of the new frame and completed skin were lost when transferring from camera to PC but I’ll try and take a picture of the completed panel in primer.
Finished bonnet in primer
Found one of the weld samples, welding the thinned bonnet skin was a bit of a pig, even TIG blew holes in it. Finally achieved it by carefully using MIG in the underside as shown then welding more easily from the top side. That's not silver paint its just been bead blasted to show up weld imperfections.
Edited by Chad speed on Friday 28th September 10:49
I’d expected to find a few previously unseen holes to appear when the shell came back from blasting but the reality was that the sills, inner, middle and outer were not worth repairing and the four floor pans had thinned out everywhere to a degree where they had lost their stiffness and flexed alarmingly.
So the floors were cut out and bracing tubes welded in to provide some rigidity for when the sills were removed. Each of the sills is a simple folded shape but due to their length manufacture was beyond the capacity of my little bench folder. A local sheet metal shop folded the inner and middle sills from 16swg Zintec steel and 20swg for the curved outers. A 3ft long 28mm tube with 45 degree bends each end runs through the offside sill to carry the wiring loom from the front to the rear of the car. This had rusted through completely in one place and sagged, allowing the loom to touch the inside bottom of the sill so the loom tube was replicated in 28mm copper and silver soldered into place. To aid future drainage, inspection, ventilation and wax injection of the sills, threaded bosses were welded into each end which will be fitted with brass plugs when finished. A series of drain holes in the bottom of each sill were also incorporated which should allow any water that does find its way in to escape.
The floor pans are again a simple folded shape but have fore and aft ridges swaged into the bases to add stiffness. My mate Richard who is also restoring a Ghibli (RHD too) had already turned up the correct profile wheels for his hand swaging machine to form the ridges. Keeping the swaged ridges straight was no mean task but nothing compared to flattening back the twisted floor pan base after the ridges had been formed. This was when I stumped up the readies to buy a spiral shrinking hammer, a wonder tool that actually does work – with a bit of practice. In all I think we scrapped two floor pans but two sets were made in the course of a weekend. I should mention that each floor pan was unique, not only front to back and side to side but for each car as well!
Floors out and inner and mid sills welded in
Stiffeners removed waiting for new floor pans. Note factory lead loading on rear edge of front wing and rebuilt door frame being fettled for fit.
Floor pans in with seat fixings in place. So that’s what Marigold’s are for.
Out with the old in with the new.
Nearly there, just jacking points to weld in
Jacking points (stainless steel) welded in and underbody painted with tie coat primer, just the underbody sealant to spray.
Underbody seams sealed. Note drain and access holes in sills.
Underbody coating being applied.
Job done.
Thats only five years from the time I fabricated the frame to roll the car on its side!
So the floors were cut out and bracing tubes welded in to provide some rigidity for when the sills were removed. Each of the sills is a simple folded shape but due to their length manufacture was beyond the capacity of my little bench folder. A local sheet metal shop folded the inner and middle sills from 16swg Zintec steel and 20swg for the curved outers. A 3ft long 28mm tube with 45 degree bends each end runs through the offside sill to carry the wiring loom from the front to the rear of the car. This had rusted through completely in one place and sagged, allowing the loom to touch the inside bottom of the sill so the loom tube was replicated in 28mm copper and silver soldered into place. To aid future drainage, inspection, ventilation and wax injection of the sills, threaded bosses were welded into each end which will be fitted with brass plugs when finished. A series of drain holes in the bottom of each sill were also incorporated which should allow any water that does find its way in to escape.
The floor pans are again a simple folded shape but have fore and aft ridges swaged into the bases to add stiffness. My mate Richard who is also restoring a Ghibli (RHD too) had already turned up the correct profile wheels for his hand swaging machine to form the ridges. Keeping the swaged ridges straight was no mean task but nothing compared to flattening back the twisted floor pan base after the ridges had been formed. This was when I stumped up the readies to buy a spiral shrinking hammer, a wonder tool that actually does work – with a bit of practice. In all I think we scrapped two floor pans but two sets were made in the course of a weekend. I should mention that each floor pan was unique, not only front to back and side to side but for each car as well!
Floors out and inner and mid sills welded in
Stiffeners removed waiting for new floor pans. Note factory lead loading on rear edge of front wing and rebuilt door frame being fettled for fit.
Floor pans in with seat fixings in place. So that’s what Marigold’s are for.
Out with the old in with the new.
Nearly there, just jacking points to weld in
Jacking points (stainless steel) welded in and underbody painted with tie coat primer, just the underbody sealant to spray.
Underbody seams sealed. Note drain and access holes in sills.
Underbody coating being applied.
Job done.
Thats only five years from the time I fabricated the frame to roll the car on its side!
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