British Leyland

[OLDBENZ]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I have to one day own a 2.5 pi estate or a 2.5s even a Saloon.

It was a manual o/d 1973 Sienna Brown Triumph 2.5 pi that my Dad bought in 1974 (along with a Valencia Mk IV Spitfire that my Mother bought in 1973) that marked the start of my obsession with cars.

A friend of my parents who did a little part time buying and selling flogged us the Spitfire. As a 12 year old he promised me a Parker pen if I got my Mum to buy the Spitfire. I remember that it was £775 and I got the pen.

I also remember finding the 2.5 pi in the Evening Standard for £1375 at 11 months old and ringing the seller to make the appointment to view. God knows why he took a 12 year old seriously. My Dad had that car until 1982 and it was relatively reliable - two fuel pumps, one metering unit and a few injectors I think was the total pi damage over that period plus, of course, a new Russian steel rear silencer every year.

I think it was the dial pack that turned me on to the 2.5 pi - the 2000 left me cold. The pi superceded a 1970 Sunbeam Alpine fastback which left me feeling shortchanged with the crappy poverty dash instead of the full dial set that the Rapier used to have.

The works rally pis had two fuel pumps wired in as failure was expected. I spoke to a chap who prepared them at the factory and he told me the saddest thing was taking a sledge hammer to the rear wings of a brand new car to flare them out for the rally wheel/tyre combination.

Edited by OLDBENZ on Thursday 20th April 19:01

[anonymous-user]

My dad worked on the dashboard design of the Rapier Fastback when he was at Rootes in the early seventies, before moving to BL. He lusted after a silver Rapier. I remember him seeing one at a roundabout while we were in his crappy ex police Ford Anglia (he had to rebuild its engine twice while he had it, and I mean totally rebuild). He said that the Rapier was the car he most wanted. Many, many, many years later I was very happy to buy him a silver Rapier Fastback for one of his birthdays, in his sixties.

[IroningMan]

I never had a pump fail in the thick end of 100k miles of PI motoring - but I had them overheat and vapour lock on more occasions than I care to recall.

One of my PIs had a cooling coil and another a cooling air intake fashioned from a right-angle section of 2" plastic drainpipe. Keeping a reasonable quantity of fuel in the tank helped, but so did carrying a 5l plastic fuel can in the boot - full of water to slosh over the pump and cool it down again.

[MoggieMinor]

Breadvan72 said:

My dad worked on the dashboard design of the Rapier Fastback when he was at Rootes in the early seventies, before moving to BL. He lusted after a silver Rapier. I remember him seeing one at a roundabout while we were in his crappy ex police Ford Anglia (he had to rebuild its engine twice while he had it, and I mean totally rebuild). He said that the Rapier was the car he most wanted. Many, many, many years later I was very happy to buy him a silver Rapier Fastback for one of his birthdays, in his sixties.

Now that is a car I've always liked. Fantastic styling considering it was based on the Hunter, (not that there's anything wrong with that car). Great dashboard too, so cheers to your old man.

[hidetheelephants]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.

Were the Japs really any better in the tinworm stakes? I'm not old enough to remember the 70s but as far as I can remember of the 1980s japanese cars rusted with equal alacrity, it was the standard equipment level and the tedious reliability that swayed car buyers.

[mac96]

I have always thought the blanket criticism of BL cars was a bit unfair. Yes the Marina was a bit of a joke, but an Allegro originally competed against Vauxhall Vivas and Ford Escorts (Mk2)
.
If you had to choose which of these to drive for 5 hours, the Allegro won hands down. Stable at 70mph+, even in a cross wind, good ride, space inside.

What the Allegro didn't have was a competition history or a 'halo' model. Everyone seems to venerate Escorts now, but it's all about rally cars- they probably never drove a Mk2 Escort Popular 1.1. With no adjustment to the angle of the driver's seat back. By far the most uncomfortable car I have ever had the misfortune to drive.

Of course the same Allegro did not get developed or replaced in time and wasn't much good against a Golf.

[aeropilot]

hidetheelephants said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.

Were the Japs really any better in the tinworm stakes? I'm not old enough to remember the 70s but as far as I can remember of the 1980s japanese cars rusted with equal alacrity, it was the standard equipment level and the tedious reliability that swayed car buyers.

Correct, I remember 70's Jap cars rusting voraciously as well, but as you say, it was the reliability and standard kit (and often things like a 5 speed gearbox) that swayed people away from the UK made BL/Vauxhall/Ford/Rootes cars of the day.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

aeropilot said:

hidetheelephants said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.

Were the Japs really any better in the tinworm stakes? I'm not old enough to remember the 70s but as far as I can remember of the 1980s japanese cars rusted with equal alacrity, it was the standard equipment level and the tedious reliability that swayed car buyers.

Correct, I remember 70's Jap cars rusting voraciously as well, but as you say, it was the reliability and standard kit (and often things like a 5 speed gearbox) that swayed people away from the UK made BL/Vauxhall/Ford/Rootes cars of the day.

Yeah, maybe they rusted as enthusiastically as 'ours', I don't really remember, but the real selling point was that tedious, relentless, dull old reliability. No oil spots ... you fking what...? Starts every time ... no way? Decent spec ... magic.

They overtook us at what we were supposed to have been good at, and I don't think BL ever really recovered.

[anonymous-user]

MoggieMinor said:

Breadvan72 said:

My dad worked on the dashboard design of the Rapier Fastback when he was at Rootes in the early seventies, before moving to BL. He lusted after a silver Rapier. I remember him seeing one at a roundabout while we were in his crappy ex police Ford Anglia (he had to rebuild its engine twice while he had it, and I mean totally rebuild). He said that the Rapier was the car he most wanted. Many, many, many years later I was very happy to buy him a silver Rapier Fastback for one of his birthdays, in his sixties.

Now that is a car I've always liked. Fantastic styling considering it was based on the Hunter, (not that there's anything wrong with that car). Great dashboard too, so cheers to your old man.

Thanks for that. To be frank, the Rapier is a sheep in wolf's clothing as a coupe, but it looks cool and is fun to drive. The Holbay version (cammed, up-carbed, some other whatnots) is said to go a bit, but I have never tried one of those.

[johnxjsc1985]

Breadvan72 said:

Thanks for that. To be frank, the Rapier is a sheep in wolf's clothing as a coupe, but it looks cool and is fun to drive. The Holbay version (cammed, up-carbed, some other whatnots) is said to go a bit, but I have never tried one of those.

I remember going with my Dad to look at a Rapier and I was convinced it was the later model and was so disappointed to see it was a
Hillman Minx with fins on its wings. Actually the two door was a very nice Car indeed.

[eldar]

Breadvan72 said:

Thanks for that. To be frank, the Rapier is a sheep in wolf's clothing as a coupe, but it looks cool and is fun to drive. The Holbay version (cammed, up-carbed, some other whatnots) is said to go a bit, but I have never tried one of those.

I had a Hunter GLS, which had the Holbay engine, and it was very enthusiastic. Same couldn't be said for for the rest of the car...

[uk66fastback]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

aeropilot said:

hidetheelephants said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.

Were the Japs really any better in the tinworm stakes? I'm not old enough to remember the 70s but as far as I can remember of the 1980s japanese cars rusted with equal alacrity, it was the standard equipment level and the tedious reliability that swayed car buyers.

Correct, I remember 70's Jap cars rusting voraciously as well, but as you say, it was the reliability and standard kit (and often things like a 5 speed gearbox) that swayed people away from the UK made BL/Vauxhall/Ford/Rootes cars of the day.

Yeah, maybe they rusted as enthusiastically as 'ours', I don't really remember, but the real selling point was that tedious, relentless, dull old reliability. No oil spots ... you fking what...? Starts every time ... no way? Decent spec ... magic.

They overtook us at what we were supposed to have been good at, and I don't think BL ever really recovered.

There are hardly any Japanese cars still about from the '70s in the UK. They rusted as badly if not worse than BL offerings. At the recent NEC show I had to do a double take at a Toyota Crown Custom, hadn't seen one in the flesh since about 1980. Datsun Cherries were everywhere, again not seen one since I can't remember. It was the reliability and what you got as standard as mentioned above that persuaded the British car buyer.

[aeropilot]

uk66fastback said:

At the recent NEC show I had to do a double take at a Toyota Crown Custom, hadn't seen one in the flesh since about 1980.

Crikey.........agreed, can't remember the last time I saw one of them.....like you certainly not since the early 80's!!

[tonys]

hidetheelephants said:

CharlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.

Were the Japs really any better in the tinworm stakes? I'm not old enough to remember the 70s but as far as I can remember of the 1980s japanese cars rusted with equal alacrity, it was the standard equipment level and the tedious reliability that swayed car buyers.

The Japanese 70's cars certainly did rust, terribly, but, as already stated, it was the inclusion of 'extras', like a radio, or tinted glass, well enginered, leak-free engines, consistent good quality and dealers who understood customer service that made the difference. Of course, there were many ex-WW2 veterans and family members who wouldn't buy a Japanese car under any circumstsnces.

I can't recall now, but I don't think they were rust proofed at all. After-market rustproofing was all the rage back then.

They didn't break down.

[johnxjsc1985]

my first Car was a 1968/9 Herald Convertible which was about 10 years old and my second Car was a 1973/4 Datsun 100A the difference was just huge .

[aeropilot]

tonys said:

Of course, there were many ex-WW2 veterans and family members who wouldn't buy a Japanese car under any circumstsnces.

Indeed.
One of my Uncles had fought the Japanese in the Far East and what he saw as a 18/19 year old affected him for the rest of his life, and he refused to allow any buying of anything Japanese, even with the massive influx of Japanese consumer products in the 70's/80's.

No Japanese cars, cameras, TV/Audio equipment, or any household/consumer goods etc. would be allowed to be bought.

[johnxjsc1985]

aeropilot said:

Indeed.
One of my Uncles had fought the Japanese in the Far East and what he saw as a 18/19 year old affected him for the rest of his life, and he refused to allow any buying of anything Japanese, even with the massive influx of Japanese consumer products in the 70's/80's.

No Japanese cars, cameras, TV/Audio equipment, or any household/consumer goods etc. would be allowed to be bought.

post war Japanese stuff was known as JAPCRAP. I always found it strange that people of that generation actually did buy Japanese and German Cars

[Yertis]

Well it still is called japcrap in some quarters. I've always had some kind of inexplicable antipathy to Japanese cars but must now confess to having given up with Triumph's crappy gearbox quality and fitted a Supra gearbox to the TR6.

[Yertis]

Well it still is called japcrap in some quarters. I've always had some kind of inexplicable antipathy to Japanese cars but must now confess to having given up with Triumph's crappy gearbox quality and fitted a Supra gearbox to the TR6.

[brrapp]

Mound Dawg said:

Shezbo]harlesdeGaulle said:

All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.

Mk1 VW Golf - did neither, compared to said (rusty) Mini

Have to disagree sorry old chap. Mk 1 Golfs rusted like fun. Everything in the 70s did.

I agree with this, my parents replaced the Austin 1800 landcrab that I learned to drive in with a Mk1 Golf. Apart from the fact that the lime green Golf was a far cooler car for a 17 year old to run a round in, the old Austin was a far superior car than the Golf which died of terminal rust at around 7 years old in 1982 (the front suspension strut burst free of the inner wing and sprung out of the bonnet half way round a roundabout . The 1971 landcrab which had been sold to a neighbour was still going strong for years after that.