British Leyland
Discussion
The Stag was a tragic missed opportunity, it had everything going for it, essentially a bargain Mercedes SL.
In Hollywood film and TV the Mecedes SL is well represented, from contemporary up to the present day, a classy timeless, desirable car, have a look how many appear in the background, the Stag could have taken the place of the SL in those productions.
That market was there for the taking, Stags should have sold like hot cakes yet BL managed once again to blow it, everyone involved should hang their heads in shame.
I have an aquaintance who did his apprenticeship at the BL experimental dept, the stories he tells are eye opening, wasting money on complicated flights of fantasy whilst unable to supply the workshop with drill bits for example.
Does anyone know why sixties and seventies Rovers only came in rubbish colours?
I can tell if anyone is interested.
In Hollywood film and TV the Mecedes SL is well represented, from contemporary up to the present day, a classy timeless, desirable car, have a look how many appear in the background, the Stag could have taken the place of the SL in those productions.
That market was there for the taking, Stags should have sold like hot cakes yet BL managed once again to blow it, everyone involved should hang their heads in shame.
I have an aquaintance who did his apprenticeship at the BL experimental dept, the stories he tells are eye opening, wasting money on complicated flights of fantasy whilst unable to supply the workshop with drill bits for example.
Does anyone know why sixties and seventies Rovers only came in rubbish colours?
I can tell if anyone is interested.
The reason the stag had the overheating troubles was down to one thing, casting sand left in the waterways in the block from the foundry. Change the head gasket as many times as you like but it will never fix it whilst that sand is still in there, people are still finding it in there now, no one ever thought the problem would be in the block, everyone was obsessed with the alloy heads corroding and the pub talk of 50% anti-freeze all the while the problem was the sand.
I run a standard set up even still using two sets of points, my expansion bottle is still in the same place where the factory put it and I would drive that car anywhere in any temperature and I'm not fully trained mechanic just a tinkerer.
I run a standard set up even still using two sets of points, my expansion bottle is still in the same place where the factory put it and I would drive that car anywhere in any temperature and I'm not fully trained mechanic just a tinkerer.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th April 17:56
I wonder if part of the problem was they didn't have a plan?
The Japanese appear to have had a clear strategy - small, simple, reliable cars. Some of them using licensed British technology (Nissan), but reworked for reliability.
I find it interesting what they didn't export in the early days - no luxury cars, no big saloons, no sports cars until the Datsun 240Z. They saw a niche, and targeted it accurately.
BL, in comparison, tried to build not one of everything, but two or more.
The Japanese appear to have had a clear strategy - small, simple, reliable cars. Some of them using licensed British technology (Nissan), but reworked for reliability.
I find it interesting what they didn't export in the early days - no luxury cars, no big saloons, no sports cars until the Datsun 240Z. They saw a niche, and targeted it accurately.
BL, in comparison, tried to build not one of everything, but two or more.
williamp said:
Watch this
https://youtu.be/VTCfJKNE2hg
This gives you some idea. But remember how bad the french and italian cars were. In the air cadets my CO bought a new BX. We joked they must had been building it pissed as the bonnet badge was to one side. Then I noticed the bonnet badge was upside down..
Speaking of which, here is the Renault factory canteen. Half bottle of wine per employee I reckon....
Bloody hell, buying a brand new dodgy marina and getting killed by an Allegro.https://youtu.be/VTCfJKNE2hg
This gives you some idea. But remember how bad the french and italian cars were. In the air cadets my CO bought a new BX. We joked they must had been building it pissed as the bonnet badge was to one side. Then I noticed the bonnet badge was upside down..
Speaking of which, here is the Renault factory canteen. Half bottle of wine per employee I reckon....
On a serious note was the Company in its many guises only "successful" because
A. It was a British car maker
B. Companies bought them as company cars
I know I worked at a foundry back in the 90's and we made parts for various cars. We had a range of Rovers as company cars from 200's to 800's.
Edited by Downward on Sunday 23 April 18:53
kev b said:
The Stag was a tragic missed opportunity, it had everything going for it, essentially a bargain Mercedes SL.
In Hollywood film and TV the Mecedes SL is well represented, from contemporary up to the present day, a classy timeless, desirable car, have a look how many appear in the background, the Stag could have taken the place of the SL in those productions.
Well, a Stag did have a starring role in a Bond film, Diamonds Are Forever, and a Stag has featured prominently in a few UK TV 'cop' series, at least one episode of The Sweeney, and the late 70's private detective series, Hazell, and more recently a similar dark green coloured Stag has featured in the cop series, New Tricks.In Hollywood film and TV the Mecedes SL is well represented, from contemporary up to the present day, a classy timeless, desirable car, have a look how many appear in the background, the Stag could have taken the place of the SL in those productions.
williamp said:
Two examples of problems with tooling -
One: my late and beloved dad and a bunch of other BL engineers (my dad was an IE - a production process bloke) are hosting a delegation from Honda. The Salarymen ask how often the factory re-tools. They are told that the factory has not re-tooled since WW2. Hondamen are amazed, as Honda re-tools every eight years "whether we need to or not".
Two: From a website about the O Series engine, here talking about the B Series engine:
"In the summer of 1972 a bombshell report landed on Webster's desk. The B-OHC engine had been developed to the point where the block had been revised to take advantage of the absence of pushrods, although the camshaft was retained as a jackshaft to drive the distributor and oil pump. The problem was that the engine could not be built!"
Essentially, B-Series tooling was past its prime. Porter again: "The plattens which guided the cutting tools into position had been re-drilled so many times that they were like 'paper doyleys' in the words of one Longbridge engineer. 'If it hadn't been for the good grace of the blokes on the shopfloor, who would pack the machines into line daily using shims or even bits of cigarette paper, the whole thing would have been packed up years before,' another engineer has told me.http://www.leylandprincess.co.uk/o-series.htm
One: my late and beloved dad and a bunch of other BL engineers (my dad was an IE - a production process bloke) are hosting a delegation from Honda. The Salarymen ask how often the factory re-tools. They are told that the factory has not re-tooled since WW2. Hondamen are amazed, as Honda re-tools every eight years "whether we need to or not".
Two: From a website about the O Series engine, here talking about the B Series engine:
website said:
"In the summer of 1972 a bombshell report landed on Webster's desk. The B-OHC engine had been developed to the point where the block had been revised to take advantage of the absence of pushrods, although the camshaft was retained as a jackshaft to drive the distributor and oil pump. The problem was that the engine could not be built!"
Essentially, B-Series tooling was past its prime. Porter again: "The plattens which guided the cutting tools into position had been re-drilled so many times that they were like 'paper doyleys' in the words of one Longbridge engineer. 'If it hadn't been for the good grace of the blokes on the shopfloor, who would pack the machines into line daily using shims or even bits of cigarette paper, the whole thing would have been packed up years before,' another engineer has told me.
Raygun said:
Did Hallens sell Toyota's in them days? use to go in the motorbike shop in Hawthorne Way?
You do fail to mention Datsun's were made from steel about the thickness of a Rizla paper but as you say they were reliable and the radio always seemed to work in them.
I don't know, I only lived in Cambridge in 1996.You do fail to mention Datsun's were made from steel about the thickness of a Rizla paper but as you say they were reliable and the radio always seemed to work in them.
AW111 said:
I wonder if part of the problem was they didn't have a plan?
The Japanese appear to have had a clear strategy - small, simple, reliable cars. Some of them using licensed British technology (Nissan), but reworked for reliability.
I find it interesting what they didn't export in the early days - no luxury cars, no big saloons, no sports cars until the Datsun 240Z. They saw a niche, and targeted it accurately.
BL, in comparison, tried to build not one of everything, but two or more.
Well here's the thing. 40 years ago BL should have had:The Japanese appear to have had a clear strategy - small, simple, reliable cars. Some of them using licensed British technology (Nissan), but reworked for reliability.
I find it interesting what they didn't export in the early days - no luxury cars, no big saloons, no sports cars until the Datsun 240Z. They saw a niche, and targeted it accurately.
BL, in comparison, tried to build not one of everything, but two or more.
A 1.0 and 1.3 hatchback replacing the Mini and Allegro
Rear drive 'Cortina' sized 1600-2000 saloon and hatchback, based on platform A
A Triumph version of above
The SD1
Jaguar XJ range
An MG Coupe
A Triumph sports car
Small and medium sized vans.
All made in three factories: Longbridge, Cowley and a new greenfield site in Coventry for Jaguar and Triumph. Eight model ranges, all profitable and sharing components, built in factories working to capacity - what Ford did in the seventies!
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