Bugatti Owners Club - DVLA - Crackdown on old cars
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
With recreations and the like I see absolutely no issue with them being on Q plates if this happens. I'm struggling to see why people are thinking they'll be worth scrap?
If a car falls short of the requirement to have an age related number or to retain the number of the donor vehicle then a Q plate will be offered but only with an IVA pass.Some cars will be able to be modified to achieve the IVA - I'm told the SS100's can be done with 38 changes - whereas others like Pur Sang 35B's will not so they will then be off the road - not scrap but a 'chocolate teapot'
Thread resurrection. Believe it is fair to say that the forum nailed the issues surrounding the new for next May DVLA tick box of potential BIVA/IVA/Q just over two years ago.
The next twenty months will, I could imagine, lead to the smart money offloading cars to the less knowledgeable. Do not know how long has been in place, but looking through a classic car auctioneers terms a few days ago and they stated: any "motor vehicle is sold as a collector’s item and not as a means of transport". Fair play to them. Terms were in bold at front of catalogue. Could also lead to more cars sold without reserve to get around even hinting at a guide figure? And then there is eBay with cars being sold as just for show although taxed and tested like this one.
Buyers really need to have their wits about them for next couple of years.
The next twenty months will, I could imagine, lead to the smart money offloading cars to the less knowledgeable. Do not know how long has been in place, but looking through a classic car auctioneers terms a few days ago and they stated: any "motor vehicle is sold as a collector’s item and not as a means of transport". Fair play to them. Terms were in bold at front of catalogue. Could also lead to more cars sold without reserve to get around even hinting at a guide figure? And then there is eBay with cars being sold as just for show although taxed and tested like this one.
Buyers really need to have their wits about them for next couple of years.
An interesting reply that. Elsewhere I read that any modified car needs to have an annual MOT whereas a 40-year aged car will be exempt. I cannot conceive that the DVLA or whoever is going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, consigning for example Austin 7 specials built 80 years ago, to the scrap heap. There are so many replicas of all makes on the road, plus a lot of modified vehicles as well. Will all these cars be lost? Look at unique and very historic cars such as Babs, the Napier-Railton, Dellows, the Bugatti-engined Ford, Lynx cars, etc. etc. Brussels want a definition of what constitutes an old as opposed to a historic car, and I for one am scratching my head as to how on earth that can be defined Interestingly, things have gone in the other direction in France with replicas over 30 years old, or more recent replicas with proof that the cars were being made over 30 years ago, being admissable for the "carte grise" or V5 to you lot. Moreover, such cars will be required to have an MOT every five years only. Out of interest my car has headlights that are illegal anywhere, but period-correct. They dip straight ahead!
SDB660 said:
Do not know how long has been in place, but looking through a classic car auctioneers terms a few days ago and they stated: any "motor vehicle is sold as a collector’s item and not as a means of transport". Fair play to them. Terms were in bold at front of catalogue.
I bought my car nearly 20 years ago from an Independent Dealer and the invoice had those words or similar. I always assumed it was to avoid claims of car being 'unfit for purpose'.Andy 308GTB said:
SDB660 said:
Do not know how long has been in place, but looking through a classic car auctioneers terms a few days ago and they stated: any "motor vehicle is sold as a collector’s item and not as a means of transport". Fair play to them. Terms were in bold at front of catalogue.
I bought my car nearly 20 years ago from an Independent Dealer and the invoice had those words or similar. I always assumed it was to avoid claims of car being 'unfit for purpose'.MKnight702 said:
lowdrag said:
I cannot conceive that the DVLA or whoever is going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, consigning for example Austin 7 specials built 80 years ago, to the scrap heap
You have far more faith in the authorities than I do!I have two cars that fall into this bracket and am happy to MOT them. Tax will still be 0.
If anyone is throwing Austin 7s on scrapheaps let me know, I'll come and take them away for you, (for free!)
austin said:
MKnight702 said:
lowdrag said:
I cannot conceive that the DVLA or whoever is going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, consigning for example Austin 7 specials built 80 years ago, to the scrap heap
You have far more faith in the authorities than I do!If your car is more than 40yo, and has NOT got a power to weight 15% increased, unless the modifications were carried out before 1988, then it WON'T need an MOT - and that's all that's changing.
For pre-60 stuff, you're right - recentish mods will return an MOT requirement that hasn't been there for the last five years.
lowdrag said:
An interesting reply that. Elsewhere I read that any modified car needs to have an annual MOT whereas a 40-year aged car will be exempt. I cannot conceive that the DVLA or whoever is going to throw out the baby with the bathwater, consigning for example Austin 7 specials built 80 years ago, to the scrap heap.
The proposed rules appear to include a clause of "unless done before 1988" on modifications, so irrespective of what ends up happening with their definition of "modified", if they keep that clause, then any "true" period specials should be granted the MOT exemption.One thing that seems to muddy the waters is that it looks very much like we could end up with three sets of rules: What can be registered as a "historic" vehicle with an age related plate etc, what can have a VED exemption, and what can have an MOT exemption. For example, the guidelines being mooted for MOT exempt status include details not mentioned with regard to registering an older car.
The EU legislation says the MOT exemption must have an originality test, but it doesn't concern itself with VED. So maybe they'll leave it alone, or maybe they'll adjust the requirements to match, for the sake of simplicity.
Either way, it seems that the easiest solution to implement - and cause the least amount of hassle for everyone - would be to draw a line under it, and say that anything which has VED and/or MOT exemption already stays that way, and the new rules apply for new applications for that status.
I'll be interested to see what happens. To my mind, if I have a 1930s car, built using 1930s components for all the important bits (chassis, powertrain, suspension and steering), and the owners club or other expert would look at it and say "Yep, that's a 1930s car", then it's fine to call it one, and give it the VED and MOT exemption. Which, as I understand it, is how it works right this minute.
Edit: other posters are already ahead of me here.
Edited by InitialDave on Monday 18th September 13:36
InitialDave said:
One thing that seems to muddy the waters is that it looks very much like we could end up with three sets of rules: What can be registered as a "historic" vehicle with an age related plate etc, what can have a VED exemption, and what can have an MOT exemption.
Two of those are unchanged for decades, of course (VED qualifying date apart).InitialDave said:
Either way, it seems that the easiest solution to implement - and cause the least amount of hassle for everyone - would be to draw a line under it, and say that anything which has VED and/or MOT exemption already stays that way, and the new rules apply for new applications for that status.
I agree.However, Govt never does easy solutions to anything, it needs by definition to create confusion and ambiguity largely to justify its own existence.
TooMany2cvs said:
Two of those are unchanged for decades, of course (VED qualifying date apart).
Indeed. But will the MOT rules changing - and if I'm understanding the need to comply with the EU directive, the rules will need to apply to pre-60 stuff also - trigger a change in any other rules? You replied to me in the other thread, and I think (and hope) you're correct that it'll largely stay the same as it is now, I just get a little suspicious about such matters.
The main vehicles I am thinking of are ones that do not comply with 8 point rule and therefore will need to go to testing and possibly a Q. Many have been under the radar for many reasons and now DVLA will be asking everyone the same basic question. Is your car "substantially altered"? The problem ranges from the highest to the lowest value vehicles.
SDB660 said:
The main vehicles I am thinking of are ones that do not comply with 8 point rule and therefore will need to go to testing and possibly a Q. Many have been under the radar for many reasons...
So, basically, people are worried about being caught out in the lie they've been hiding behind for years...Oops.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
TooMany2cvs said:
SDB660 said:
The main vehicles I am thinking of are ones that do not comply with 8 point rule and therefore will need to go to testing and possibly a Q. Many have been under the radar for many reasons...
So, basically, people are worried about being caught out in the lie they've been hiding behind for years...Oops.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
SDB660 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
SDB660 said:
The main vehicles I am thinking of are ones that do not comply with 8 point rule and therefore will need to go to testing and possibly a Q. Many have been under the radar for many reasons...
So, basically, people are worried about being caught out in the lie they've been hiding behind for years...Oops.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Caveat emptor has held true since the term was in the most-used language of the day.
TooMany2cvs said:
SDB660 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
SDB660 said:
The main vehicles I am thinking of are ones that do not comply with 8 point rule and therefore will need to go to testing and possibly a Q. Many have been under the radar for many reasons...
So, basically, people are worried about being caught out in the lie they've been hiding behind for years...Oops.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Caveat emptor has held true since the term was in the most-used language of the day.
Spotted in another place and as if to prove my point. What could possibly go wrong for new owner? Looks great though.
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
The syntax is wrong as the vehicle is based on a galvanised Defender chassis. Any solution stems from this.
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
The syntax is wrong as the vehicle is based on a galvanised Defender chassis. Any solution stems from this.
Edited by SDB660 on Monday 18th September 17:21
SDB660 said:
Spotted in another place and as if to prove my point. What could possibly go wrong for new owner? Looks great though.
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
Registered as a '59 Leyland AM 4x4 utility, and yet the registration plate is '63.http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
There's also an issue with the tyres protruding from the bodywork. I expect there's a few other little things that aren't quite tickety-boo.
SDB660 said:
Spotted in another place and as if to prove my point. What could possibly go wrong for new owner? Looks great though.
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
Well, you can't accuse them of not giving big enough clues that it's as hooky as the day is long...http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...
"based on a Series 2 land rover body, Defender galvanised chassis, registered on V5 as a 1959 Leyland AM 4x4 untilty, ... 5 speed manual with a 2.5 300 TDI ... 5 speed gearbox ... Power steering"
WTF is a Leyland AM, anyway?
Oh, yes. It's one of these...
Yep, that "series 2" is officially a 1959 Sherpa 4x4...
Hookier than a Peter Pan audition.
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