Bugatti Owners Club - DVLA - Crackdown on old cars

[SDB660]

Going up the price scale



Been told it "complied with all applicable legislation at that time."

[SDB660]

Forgot. A side effect of what happened last Thursday is "dobbing in" has been and gone. Everyone will have to dob themselves in, or lie, between May 2018 and May 2019.

[TooMany2cvs]

SDB660 said:

Been told it "complied with all applicable legislation at that time."

1990 modifications and chassis number change. When were the 8pts introduced?

[SDB660]

TooMany2cvs said:

1990 modifications and chassis number change. When were the 8pts introduced?

Have emails from DVLA last month confirming Q was introduced in 1983 and the longstanding procedures were reinforced in early 1990's when INF26 was published.

[SDB660]

Covered by radically altered cars in any case. Modified chassis.

[InitialDave]

But isn't the difference in that case that it was done by Aston Martin? If the original manufacturer says "this is a 1959 car", can anyone argue with them?

[singlecoil]

InitialDave said:

But isn't the difference in that case that it was done by Aston Martin? If the original manufacturer says "this is a 1959 car", can anyone argue with them?

Not if they made it in 1959. It's making it decades later that's the, and now their, problem.

[SDB660]

InitialDave said:

But isn't the difference in that case that it was done by Aston Martin? If the original manufacturer says "this is a 1959 car", can anyone argue with them?

Aston Martin have a convoluted history, but I believe the manufacturer is Aston Martin Lagonda Ltd and Aston Martin Works are a separate company.

In any case as per DVLA site re 8 point rule. '5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.' The DB4 GT was a separate model. Bit like claiming a Sierra Cosworth from a 1.6L but worse potentially as it
May be possibly to make a Cosworth from an unaltered chassis.

Edited by SDB660 on Monday 18th September 18:18

Edited by SDB660 on Monday 18th September 18:19

[TooMany2cvs]

SDB660 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

1990 modifications and chassis number change. When were the 8pts introduced?

Have emails from DVLA last month confirming Q was introduced in 1983 and the longstanding procedures were reinforced in early 1990's when INF26 was published.

So it could well fall between two stools. It's not really a Q based on age-not-known, because it's all either original or modified-original or new. It's really just a question of whether the modified chassis fell foul of the regs at the time.

It's clearly not MOT-exempt any more, but that really shouldn't be a big issue... It's whether it'll hit the actual ID - another question entirely.

[SDB660]

TooMany2cvs said:

SDB660 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

1990 modifications and chassis number change. When were the 8pts introduced?

Have emails from DVLA last month confirming Q was introduced in 1983 and the longstanding procedures were reinforced in early 1990's when INF26 was published.

So it could well fall between two stools. It's not really a Q based on age-not-known, because it's all either original or modified-original or new. It's really just a question of whether the modified chassis fell foul of the regs at the time.

It's clearly not MOT-exempt any more, but that really shouldn't be a big issue... It's whether it'll hit the actual ID - another question entirely.

It is a two stage question.

1) Did it meet regs at time? Question is really of interest to owner only, as will be key to what direction he takes if not very happy.
2) As it stands today, does it meet 8 point rule? Well the chassis is platform with welded Superleggara tubes, has been shortened by five inches and has an IRS instead of live axle and other stuff. Does not look a great case, but establishment probably so who knows.

[TooMany2cvs]

SDB660 said:

It is a two stage question.

1) Did it meet regs at time? Question is really of interest to owner only, as will be key to what direction he takes if not very happy.
2) As it stands today, does it meet 8 point rule? Well the chassis is platform with welded Superleggara tubes, has been shortened by five inches and has an IRS instead of live axle and other stuff. Does not look a great case, but establishment probably so who knows.

If it met the regs at the time it was modified, it doesn't matter if the regs later changed. They aren't retrospective.

[SDB660]

TooMany2cvs said:

SDB660 said:

It is a two stage question.

1) Did it meet regs at time? Question is really of interest to owner only, as will be key to what direction he takes if not very happy.
2) As it stands today, does it meet 8 point rule? Well the chassis is platform with welded Superleggara tubes, has been shortened by five inches and has an IRS instead of live axle and other stuff. Does not look a great case, but establishment probably so who knows.

If it met the regs at the time it was modified, it doesn't matter if the regs later changed. They aren't retrospective.

Am trying to be diplomatic and avoid a lawsuit. Q came in 1983 and we have the radically altered car rules at moment so who thinks this car is OK?

[TooMany2cvs]

SDB660 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

SDB660 said:

It is a two stage question.

1) Did it meet regs at time? Question is really of interest to owner only, as will be key to what direction he takes if not very happy.
2) As it stands today, does it meet 8 point rule? Well the chassis is platform with welded Superleggara tubes, has been shortened by five inches and has an IRS instead of live axle and other stuff. Does not look a great case, but establishment probably so who knows.

If it met the regs at the time it was modified, it doesn't matter if the regs later changed. They aren't retrospective.

Am trying to be diplomatic and avoid a lawsuit. Q came in 1983 and we have the radically altered car rules at moment so who thinks this car is OK?

I can't see how it fails to meet the regs applicable at the time.

If it was done today, the situation would be different. The changes are never retrospective.

[SDB660]

TooMany2cvs said:

I can't see how it fails to meet the regs applicable at the time.

If it was done today, the situation would be different. The changes are never retrospective.

Please explain logic.

[TooMany2cvs]

SDB660 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

I can't see how it fails to meet the regs applicable at the time.

If it was done today, the situation would be different. The changes are never retrospective.

Please explain logic.

Very simple.

If the regs concerning changes to a vehicle are updated, it doesn't take stuff off the road that's already there.

This was on the road before the 8pts came in, it can stay there.
If the exact same work was done after the 8pts come in, the 8pts apply.

[restoman]

TooMany2cvs said:

SDB660 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

I can't see how it fails to meet the regs applicable at the time.

If it was done today, the situation would be different. The changes are never retrospective.

Please explain logic.

Very simple.

If the regs concerning changes to a vehicle are updated, it doesn't take stuff off the road that's already there.

This was on the road before the 8pts came in, it can stay there.
If the exact same work was done after the 8pts come in, the 8pts apply.

So long as you can prove that the mods were done before the 8 point system was introduced . . . . . .

[lowdrag]

A question. My Lynx was built on the remains of a 1967 E-type, and was built in 1987. How do I prove it? The chassis plate says so, but will that be enough?

[TooMany2cvs]

lowdrag said:

A question. My Lynx was built on the remains of a 1967 E-type, and was built in 1987. How do I prove it? The chassis plate says so, but will that be enough?

You live in France, though, don't you? So the question is more one of whether the French registration authorities are happy. Presumably, it was converted before import?

If it was still in the UK, then - a Lynx is a kit, though, so the kit rules would apply.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconvert...

Since it was converted pre-88, the MOT exemption would apply.

[InitialDave]

lowdrag said:

A question. My Lynx was built on the remains of a 1967 E-type, and was built in 1987. How do I prove it? The chassis plate says so, but will that be enough?

I don't think you need to prove it. Just declare it as being the case.

[aeropilot]

InitialDave said:

lowdrag said:

A question. My Lynx was built on the remains of a 1967 E-type, and was built in 1987. How do I prove it? The chassis plate says so, but will that be enough?

I don't think you need to prove it. Just declare it as being the case.

Yes, but you have to be able to prove it to declare it....this is the issue from all the threads dotted about the web on this.

Sure.....you can declare it and just hope that at each yearly renewal the DVLA system will let you 'tax' it, and at some point it won't say at renewal time........prove it.
If you can't it will be BIVA etc., or become expensive yard art!!!!