Impromptu BL line up
Discussion
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Breadvan72 said:
In fairness, the particular example had done a fair old mileage and was bought from a Rover "specialist" whose enterprise was known locally as Coronation Street Motors.
Some SD1s, especially the ones made in Solihull, are mega terrible. My one was well made in Cowley, and in twenty seven months of ownership has been the most reliable classic and easiest to live with classic car that I have ever owned (and I have owned lost of classic cars). It led a sheltered early life but now it gets a right old thrashing on an almost daily basis.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Breadvan72 said:
Some SD1s, especially the ones made in Solihull, are mega terrible. My one was well made in Cowley, and in twenty seven months of ownership has been the most reliable classic and easiest to live with classic car that I have ever owned (and I have owned lost of classic cars). It led a sheltered early life but now it gets a right old thrashing on an almost daily basis.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
A newly-coined and wholly appropriate collective term for them.Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Here is the culprit for poor running.
Car has stood and been run empty and as it had no filter, the gauze has blocked.
Carb rebuild kit, a new oil pressure switch and off she goes.
Made it to Malton food festival and back. Missus said it is very comfortable.Friends couldn't believe we actually got one.
(Missus also told me off for challenging some straggled hippy woman putting up "Frack Free Yorkshire" posters about where she gets her heating from...but that's another thread...)
Car has stood and been run empty and as it had no filter, the gauze has blocked.
Carb rebuild kit, a new oil pressure switch and off she goes.
Made it to Malton food festival and back. Missus said it is very comfortable.Friends couldn't believe we actually got one.
(Missus also told me off for challenging some straggled hippy woman putting up "Frack Free Yorkshire" posters about where she gets her heating from...but that's another thread...)
Breadvan72 said:
Some SD1s, especially the ones made in Solihull, are mega terrible. My one was well made in Cowley, and in twenty seven months of ownership has been the most reliable classic and easiest to live with classic car that I have ever owned (and I have owned lost of classic cars). It led a sheltered early life but now it gets a right old thrashing on an almost daily basis.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Aye, but Setright didn't have to work on the bloody things. The 6 cylinder SD1s were utterly tragic, and constant trouble. You are fortunate indeed BV that you appear to have got a good one; they are rare as rocking horse sSetright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
t. I lost count of the number of engines I replaced in these things under warranty: this was the worst years of Leyland remember. The V8s were terrific and went like a train.Hope it lasts for you.
J
A number of responses to that. First the Met Police singled out the 2600 as their patrol car of choice, and stockpiled 2600s when production ended so that they could carry on using them into the 90s. Secondly, have you read Michael Edwardes' excellent book "Back from the Brink"? Series 2 SD1 production coincided with the revival of BL led by Edwardes (the Metro being the flagship of the revival). Solihull was an unhappy factory with bad management, stroppy shop stewards and poor morale. Cowley was a better managed factory with a more co-operative workforce and higher morale, and it made better cars. Hence its survival as a car factory to this day (now making the BMW Mini). In Solihull, Land Rover remains, but what used to be the SD1 factory has long gone.
My father was a process engineer and he worked on a trouble shooting team assembled by Edwardes (my dad was in his dream job lecturing at BL's staff college at Haseley Manor when he was headhunted by Edwardes to join a team of mobile managers who were deployed to trouble spots all across BL). My dad saw first hand the situation at what he would always call "the Rover" in Solihull and at what he would always call "the Morris" in Cowley (Longbridge would always be "the Austin") , and his only comment when I bought my SD1 not long before he died was "I hope it's a Cowley one". My love for BL cars is, rather obviously to everyone in my family but me (but the penny has finally dropped), all about my feelings for my dad.
It appears (1) that the oil valve for the cam box was a design flaw (and the engine was never developed to eliminate that flaw); and (2) that many owners did not maintain the oil level in the engine and/or allowed sludge to build up. OK, vulnerability to low oil and/or sludgy oil still indicated design flaws, especially as by that era BMW etc al were beginning to move towards owner-maintenance free cars, but owner neglect may have had something to do with failure rates. See also, for example, the Dolomite Sprint, which required the use of posh oil, and coolant and not just water, but Joe Punter tended to neglect oiling and to put plain water into the cooling system. The Sprint was a slightly cantankerous 70s sports car in the body of a family saloon, but the saloonists forgot that it was a cantankerous 70s sports car. Arguably none should blame them as why should they all be pit lane techs? The days of the owner who knew and cared enough about the car on the drive to do home maintenance were already passing, as we moved towards the modern sealed box no user maintenance wheeled computer.
When motoring started, the owner of a car (in fact his chauffeur, because the owner was almost invariably male and usually had a chauffeur) was ready and able to do maintenance almost each time he drove the car, but obviously as time passed and cars improved things developed to the point where today only a few weirdos like us even know what a dipstick is.
BTW, talking of chauffeurs and early motoring, this week's Rotunda car at the RAC is a rolling chassis of an early Rolls Royce that was commissioned before WW1 by a young Italian aristocrat. The car did many interesting things, including serving in the Italian army during WW1, and it competed at motorsport events in Monaco, including one in which the race was driven by the chauffeur while the Count entertained a young lady in the back seats.
The RAC has during the last year or so had an even more exceptional than usual set of cars on display in the Rotunda, except for two weeks ago when the car was a crappy fake 60s Ferrari that was in fact a TR 6 in a fancy frock. A strange aberration of judgment, although the car was very popular with the selfie crowd. Nowadays, if a sad person like me tries to strike up a conversation about how many carburetors the car on display has with someone else who is also standing looking at the car, the chances are that the member or guest won't know what a carburetor is, but this may be nothing new, as there is a 1930s Bateman cartoon in the bar called "The member of the RAC who actually owned a car" which features a crowd of members looking aghast at the one weirdo who is a motorist.
My father was a process engineer and he worked on a trouble shooting team assembled by Edwardes (my dad was in his dream job lecturing at BL's staff college at Haseley Manor when he was headhunted by Edwardes to join a team of mobile managers who were deployed to trouble spots all across BL). My dad saw first hand the situation at what he would always call "the Rover" in Solihull and at what he would always call "the Morris" in Cowley (Longbridge would always be "the Austin") , and his only comment when I bought my SD1 not long before he died was "I hope it's a Cowley one". My love for BL cars is, rather obviously to everyone in my family but me (but the penny has finally dropped), all about my feelings for my dad.
It appears (1) that the oil valve for the cam box was a design flaw (and the engine was never developed to eliminate that flaw); and (2) that many owners did not maintain the oil level in the engine and/or allowed sludge to build up. OK, vulnerability to low oil and/or sludgy oil still indicated design flaws, especially as by that era BMW etc al were beginning to move towards owner-maintenance free cars, but owner neglect may have had something to do with failure rates. See also, for example, the Dolomite Sprint, which required the use of posh oil, and coolant and not just water, but Joe Punter tended to neglect oiling and to put plain water into the cooling system. The Sprint was a slightly cantankerous 70s sports car in the body of a family saloon, but the saloonists forgot that it was a cantankerous 70s sports car. Arguably none should blame them as why should they all be pit lane techs? The days of the owner who knew and cared enough about the car on the drive to do home maintenance were already passing, as we moved towards the modern sealed box no user maintenance wheeled computer.
When motoring started, the owner of a car (in fact his chauffeur, because the owner was almost invariably male and usually had a chauffeur) was ready and able to do maintenance almost each time he drove the car, but obviously as time passed and cars improved things developed to the point where today only a few weirdos like us even know what a dipstick is.
BTW, talking of chauffeurs and early motoring, this week's Rotunda car at the RAC is a rolling chassis of an early Rolls Royce that was commissioned before WW1 by a young Italian aristocrat. The car did many interesting things, including serving in the Italian army during WW1, and it competed at motorsport events in Monaco, including one in which the race was driven by the chauffeur while the Count entertained a young lady in the back seats.
The RAC has during the last year or so had an even more exceptional than usual set of cars on display in the Rotunda, except for two weeks ago when the car was a crappy fake 60s Ferrari that was in fact a TR 6 in a fancy frock. A strange aberration of judgment, although the car was very popular with the selfie crowd. Nowadays, if a sad person like me tries to strike up a conversation about how many carburetors the car on display has with someone else who is also standing looking at the car, the chances are that the member or guest won't know what a carburetor is, but this may be nothing new, as there is a 1930s Bateman cartoon in the bar called "The member of the RAC who actually owned a car" which features a crowd of members looking aghast at the one weirdo who is a motorist.
Agreed that the straight six is fundamentally a very good unit. I recall reading that Leyland "down tuned" the 2600 engine during development phase as it was producing very close output to the 3500 V8 unit!
Very valid points that vehicles of the Leyland era required proper maintenance which if provided would invariably help overcome most of the potential issues. Modern cars are extremely boring for those of us who enjoy doing some tinkering and maintenance. Having said that I have so little time lately that I seem to be paying others rather than doing work myself!
I had the pleasure of owning a 1982 series 1.5 SD1 having admired these cars since I was a lad when they were launched.
When I first acquired this (Solihull built) car it was fitted from the factory with a series 2 front panel and grille.
This had been done at the factory and the car was initially registered to BL Cars Management. I can just imagine the series 1 shell making its way down the production line and someone deciding to make the series 2 front end fit !
The rear was standard series 1:
[url]
|https://thu
mbsnap.com/EUARXkkA[/url]
Lovely cars and I still have a big soft spot for them - I attribute that to the fact that my Dad used to take me round many car showrooms as a lad and I was fascinated by the Rovers, Jaguars, Princess, Allegro, Marinas etc. Any excuse to go looking and I still have an early SD1 brochure
Nothing to really compare with the SD1 these days as it was such a ground breaking design and light years ahead of much of the competition!
Very valid points that vehicles of the Leyland era required proper maintenance which if provided would invariably help overcome most of the potential issues. Modern cars are extremely boring for those of us who enjoy doing some tinkering and maintenance. Having said that I have so little time lately that I seem to be paying others rather than doing work myself!
I had the pleasure of owning a 1982 series 1.5 SD1 having admired these cars since I was a lad when they were launched.
When I first acquired this (Solihull built) car it was fitted from the factory with a series 2 front panel and grille.
This had been done at the factory and the car was initially registered to BL Cars Management. I can just imagine the series 1 shell making its way down the production line and someone deciding to make the series 2 front end fit !
The rear was standard series 1:
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/EUARXkkA[/url]
Lovely cars and I still have a big soft spot for them - I attribute that to the fact that my Dad used to take me round many car showrooms as a lad and I was fascinated by the Rovers, Jaguars, Princess, Allegro, Marinas etc. Any excuse to go looking and I still have an early SD1 brochure
Nothing to really compare with the SD1 these days as it was such a ground breaking design and light years ahead of much of the competition!
Edited by bigfella70 on Wednesday 13th September 21:54
jith said:
Breadvan72 said:
Some SD1s, especially the ones made in Solihull, are mega terrible. My one was well made in Cowley, and in twenty seven months of ownership has been the most reliable classic and easiest to live with classic car that I have ever owned (and I have owned lost of classic cars). It led a sheltered early life but now it gets a right old thrashing on an almost daily basis.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Aye, but Setright didn't have to work on the bloody things. The 6 cylinder SD1s were utterly tragic, and constant trouble. You are fortunate indeed BV that you appear to have got a good one; they are rare as rocking horse sSetright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
t. I lost count of the number of engines I replaced in these things under warranty: this was the worst years of Leyland remember. The V8s were terrific and went like a train.Hope it lasts for you.
J
williamp said:
jith said:
Breadvan72 said:
Some SD1s, especially the ones made in Solihull, are mega terrible. My one was well made in Cowley, and in twenty seven months of ownership has been the most reliable classic and easiest to live with classic car that I have ever owned (and I have owned lost of classic cars). It led a sheltered early life but now it gets a right old thrashing on an almost daily basis.
Setright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
Aye, but Setright didn't have to work on the bloody things. The 6 cylinder SD1s were utterly tragic, and constant trouble. You are fortunate indeed BV that you appear to have got a good one; they are rare as rocking horse sSetright thought the 2600 version of the SD1 to be the best version. Setright was rarely wrong.
t. I lost count of the number of engines I replaced in these things under warranty: this was the worst years of Leyland remember. The V8s were terrific and went like a train.Hope it lasts for you.
J
Still loved that car though .
In the 80s I was running a Lynx Eventer as my company smoke, before you ask I was working for Lynx Engineering at the time, and was less than happy when the Chairman said it would have to go because I was clocking up 55k miles pa and the depreciation was ridiculous. It was replaced by a Rover 3500 VDP which, I'm sorry to say, was one of the least reliable and unpleasant cars I ever ran. It was possessed of strange handling at the rear with it's pogo stick on the diff and the performance always seemed very flat. Then there was the ever present spectre of not reaching my destination, sometimes not even being able to depart my starting point. I was very happy to see the back of the thing, the Audi 100CD that followed was as complete a contrast as you could imagine, a pleasure to drive and doorhandle daily, dead reliable, comfortable and roomy. To this day I still cannot understand how a car that seemed to have everything on paper was such a let down!
So when are one of you BL fans going to try something more left-field?
Michelotti designed, big-block 4.4 litre v8, Wheels mag car of the year (1973).
It even won a world cup rally stage in 1974!
I never owned one, but helped a friend rebuild his engine in 1980 or so.
A good waftmobile, but I doubt there are any in the UK.
Michelotti designed, big-block 4.4 litre v8, Wheels mag car of the year (1973).
It even won a world cup rally stage in 1974!
I never owned one, but helped a friend rebuild his engine in 1980 or so.
A good waftmobile, but I doubt there are any in the UK.
Me mucho want that rare Coupe. Me mucho not want that gangsta SD1.
Non-gangsta SD1 news: MoT handbrake fail - should be fixed today. One window still stuck down.
Dolomite News: Both of the rubber carb mounts have sheared off at the manifold. At present the car is still running because of cable ties and bathroom silicone sealant. Bodge-a-rama!. I am in north Norfolk for daughter related reasons, and will see if Rimmer's can speed deliver two new mountings so that I can drive the car back to London tomorrow. At present it is OK for local trips but I would not want to take it on a long journey. The air leaks are making it rather slow.
I once bought some metal mountings for the carbs, but lost these in my shed of doom.
Non-gangsta SD1 news: MoT handbrake fail - should be fixed today. One window still stuck down.
Dolomite News: Both of the rubber carb mounts have sheared off at the manifold. At present the car is still running because of cable ties and bathroom silicone sealant. Bodge-a-rama!. I am in north Norfolk for daughter related reasons, and will see if Rimmer's can speed deliver two new mountings so that I can drive the car back to London tomorrow. At present it is OK for local trips but I would not want to take it on a long journey. The air leaks are making it rather slow.
I once bought some metal mountings for the carbs, but lost these in my shed of doom.
I was never really that much of a BL fan having had the misfortune to own as a first car a terribly unreliable Maestro (that I wrote off by stuffing it into the back of a Fiat Panda whilst tuning the radio).
My Dad also had a Princess that rusted like heck despite plenty of Ziebart-ing.
But, as time has passed I'm appreciating them more and more. Love the SD1 (but always did like that to be fair), it's just an ageless design.
A bloke on my road has a white P5. Looks fab and makes a very nice woofle as he goes past.
My Dad also had a Princess that rusted like heck despite plenty of Ziebart-ing.
But, as time has passed I'm appreciating them more and more. Love the SD1 (but always did like that to be fair), it's just an ageless design.
A bloke on my road has a white P5. Looks fab and makes a very nice woofle as he goes past.
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