which classic car value is/will drop the most
Discussion
As someone who has been into Jaguars since before many of you were born I have noticed, or thought I did, a softening of prices over the last year or so. Not that it bothers me, but I look at sale results because I receive the details of each by email. Certain cars are rarified of course (I have a friend who has one of the four outside lock E-type RHD coupés) so probably not subject to the usual laws of supply and demand. But even so I had a call from a dealer yesterday saying that the demand for early cars is as strong as ever and that just to buy a bulkhead of a flat floor roadster (in other words just the identity) he is being asked $100,000 and selling finished cars at over $300,000 with plenty of demand. Is that Hagerty graph based on the real top end of the market, the £1 million plus cars? If so, it is hardly representative of the market as a whole. MGBs haven't seemingly changed much in value over the last few years because they are numerous and parts are plentiful. Why a standard Mini has gone berserk defeats me. £60K for a 1959 850? But anyway, talking around the market cars are still selling and some are selling as well as ever so all seems to be well in the state of Denmark. But no one knows when the bell will toll and if you are into your cars for financial reasons then you are in the wrong market. Go look at orange juice futures instead.
I am very interested in the prices of classics, For me as with a lot of other enthusiasts there were so many cars I wished to buy but they have all risen out of my price range. With a much hoped for drop in prices,it will mean I can buy and enjoy more of those cars. This is a recently sold price of a similar car to mine which I say is more representative of todays market and not the over inflated asking prices as with so many other makes/models currently still for sale.The price drop is happening now and the longer sellers try and hold out for their unrealistic amounts,the worse it will get.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/45/
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/45/
rob07 said:
For me as with a lot of other enthusiasts there were so many cars I wished to buy but they have all risen out of my price range. /
I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I could in no way afford or even dream of the two cars I have if they came on the market today. In fact, their value is depressing in that the devil-may-care way we drove all over Europe, the track days and hill climbs were because the cars were fun and we didn't give a monkey's. We never had security when touring, went to the bar and got merrily sozzled and just left the cars where they were. Now we have to lock them up tight, have video and alarm systems, and when touring a guard and dog. The carefree days are gone, and with them a lot of the fun. Today people aren't interested in talking about the dynamics, only the value and my answer is always the same. It isn't worth anything because it isn't for sale. They should ask my kids when I'm dead and buried. And they walk away completely nonplussed.rob07 said:
I am very interested in the prices of classics, For me as with a lot of other enthusiasts there were so many cars I wished to buy but they have all risen out of my price range. With a much hoped for drop in prices,it will mean I can buy and enjoy more of those cars. This is a recently sold price of a similar car to mine which I say is more representative of todays market and not the over inflated asking prices as with so many other makes/models currently still for sale.The price drop is happening now and the longer sellers try and hold out for their unrealistic amounts,the worse it will get.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/45/
Fair points made, but this example was never going to sell for big money, as there was a selection of better examples of the 3x8 cars at the Arizona auctions.https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/lot/45/
Not immaculate (“very good shape throughout”) and the mileage was “believed” to be correct. Hmmm….
California smog car, fuel injected and not the best colour, plus it was without a meticulous history file (“many service records” does not sound as reassuring!).
Lower estimate (with no reserve) was $60,000 so not too far below that.
Without seeing the car in the flesh, it is difficult to say whether the price is indicative of any changes in the market for Ferraris.
On the one hand, someone probably got a reasonably priced (and quite good condition) California-spec car.
On the other, a dealer finally got rid of an orphan 308 that had been sitting for a long time in the showroom.
Bonhams’ other 308 (the Vetroresina) made $140,250 and their 328 made $126,500
rob07 said:
The Bonhams’ other 308 (the Vetroresina) also confirms my point. It sold for £101,000, whereas if you look on here there is one at £128,000. and five more between £144,000 - £170,000. I am sure many more examples of this price disparity about.
This sort of thing is exactly the pricing people should be looking at, not the the inflated asking prices of dealers or chancers.My other hobby is old wrist watchers, and there was a similar ebay auction last week of a nice Breitling Datora that started with no reserve, it ended up selling for a smidge over £1200.00, yet dealers are regularly asking well over double for the same model.
These watch dealers, like many classic car dealers, seem to have stock sitting around for years, not selling due to high prices and yet people still use them as a reference price.
eccles said:
rob07 said:
The Bonhams’ other 308 (the Vetroresina) also confirms my point. It sold for £101,000, whereas if you look on here there is one at £128,000. and five more between £144,000 - £170,000. I am sure many more examples of this price disparity about.
This sort of thing is exactly the pricing people should be looking at, not the the inflated asking prices of dealers or chancers.My other hobby is old wrist watchers, and there was a similar ebay auction last week of a nice Breitling Datora that started with no reserve, it ended up selling for a smidge over £1200.00, yet dealers are regularly asking well over double for the same model.
These watch dealers, like many classic car dealers, seem to have stock sitting around for years, not selling due to high prices and yet people still use them as a reference price.
But as always, the condition/history/rarity/desirability of an individual car is a major factor in the price achieved.
Auctions are very fickle environments and often throw up unusual results.
You only need two determined and well-funded bidders to push the price up.
(Given that auctions only represent a small percentage of vehicles sold, I find it strange that they have such a perceived influence on the state of the market…)
Although I am not a Ferrari fan myself, I pop over to a certain Ferrari forum as they often have members who attend these auctions – and give insights into why certain cars made the prices they did.
Apparently there is quite a lot of tarted up rubbish passing through – the really good stuff is thin on the ground and usually makes decent money.
Watching Barrett Jackson bashing muscle cars across the block there doesn’t seem to be any significant drop in prices or money available.
($400,000 for a Pontiac GTO Judge ragtop – very nice, but……).
Plinth said:
Watching Barrett Jackson bashing muscle cars across the block there doesn’t seem to be any significant drop in prices or money available.
($400,000 for a Pontiac GTO Judge ragtop – very nice, but……).
Mate was a BJ on Friday, and said that a lot of muscle cars were taking a big hit.($400,000 for a Pontiac GTO Judge ragtop – very nice, but……).
A restored, genuine 69 4-speed, Hemi Roadrunner with original engine (built by Keith Black no less) only made $77k......which is way down on the 6 figure numbers they have been doing.
A 57 Chevy Black Widow clone made using NOS Black Widow parts only made $50k, which is really low, even for a cloned Black Widow.
68/69 Camaro's were still holding strong prices for some reason.
aeropilot said:
Plinth said:
Watching Barrett Jackson bashing muscle cars across the block there doesn’t seem to be any significant drop in prices or money available.
($400,000 for a Pontiac GTO Judge ragtop – very nice, but……).
Mate was a BJ on Friday, and said that a lot of muscle cars were taking a big hit.($400,000 for a Pontiac GTO Judge ragtop – very nice, but……).
A restored, genuine 69 4-speed, Hemi Roadrunner with original engine (built by Keith Black no less) only made $77k......which is way down on the 6 figure numbers they have been doing.
A 57 Chevy Black Widow clone made using NOS Black Widow parts only made $50k, which is really low, even for a cloned Black Widow.
68/69 Camaro's were still holding strong prices for some reason.
The commentators were saying some cars made strong money – perhaps people are being a bit more selective in what they buy?
Or was there too much choice and duplication of particular cars?
I hope they do ease as my long term plan to go from Gt4 to 328 to 348/355 unfortunately stalled after selling the 328 just before prices went mad. Even LHD 348's are £50k to £60k.
eta This is perfect (if it was £30k)
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ferrari-348-tb-...
eta This is perfect (if it was £30k)
https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ferrari-348-tb-...
Edited by Dinoboy on Sunday 21st January 16:58
lowdrag said:
I hope you know about the handling foibles of the 348! Not the best made or handling car that Ferrari ever made. A 328 is far better.
The 328 is indeed a great car, though was twice the price of the gt4 I sold. Certainly not twice the car. The 348 probably appeals to my love of the underdog 
Dinoboy said:
I hope they do ease as my long term plan to go from Gt4 to 328 to 348/355 unfortunately stalled after selling the 328 just before prices went mad. Even LHD 348's are £50k to £60k.
Your going in the wrong direction, selling the classic stuff for modern rubbish 
Bet you wished you hadn't sold the 328 looking at the prices of those.....
aeropilot said:
Your going in the wrong direction, selling the classic stuff for modern rubbish
Bet you wished you hadn't sold the 328 looking at the prices of those.....
BBet you wished you hadn't sold the 328 looking at the prices of those.....
Hehe very true but I've bought and sold lots of stuff in the last 30 years, some I've made lots on and some I've lost a bit on, or they've shot up in value after I've sold them. All works itself out in the end.
CRA1G said:
lowdrag said:
I hope you know about the handling foibles of the 348! Not the best made or handling car that Ferrari ever made. A 328 is far better.
The 348 has been the least inspirational Ferrari I've owned,i would even put the unloved Mondial ahead of it... Now the 355.... 
OK, going back to the origins of this post, what is going to happen in say 20 years time, when most people are running about in electric vehicles, or autonomous electric vehicles?
When that happens, there will not be the financial sense in maintaining the current fuel distribution network. Shell or BP are hardly going to divert a supertanker to Milford Haven to feed say 100,000 classic car enthusiasts. At that point, do all our classic cars simply become curios that cannot be driven?
Even if fuel is available at a few limited outlets, it might be in real terms at ten times the current price, rendering a Sunday morning blast in your V8 prohibitively expensive.
I suggest you make the most of your classics while you can......
When that happens, there will not be the financial sense in maintaining the current fuel distribution network. Shell or BP are hardly going to divert a supertanker to Milford Haven to feed say 100,000 classic car enthusiasts. At that point, do all our classic cars simply become curios that cannot be driven?
Even if fuel is available at a few limited outlets, it might be in real terms at ten times the current price, rendering a Sunday morning blast in your V8 prohibitively expensive.
I suggest you make the most of your classics while you can......
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