Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
legless said:
Volkswagen's current UK market share is 9.9%
Not according to this but it's rather more if you add in their other brands and what is crazy is the rise of Audihttps://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...
LuS1fer said:
legless said:
Volkswagen's current UK market share is 9.9%
Not according to this but it's rather more if you add in their other brands and what is crazy is the rise of Audihttps://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...
coppice said:
After clever stuff like the Mini , Rover 2000 ,XJ6 , Austin 1800 and Range Rover. , stuff you might want to buy like the TR5 or MGB GT and fun little cars like the Spridget , the firms which eventually comprised BL either made crap cars badly (Maxi, Allegro, SD 1 , Marina etc ) or made potentially nice cars badly ( 18/22 wedge , Dolomite etc).
An old post, but I do think the Maxi in particular has had a bad press. I think it was also a clever concept - perhaps with some flaws in detailed design such as the gearchange - and doubtless badly made. And the SD1 certainly looked the part of an executive saloon worthy of its Rover badge - and it's still a good looker to this day (IMV, obvs).Zener said:
All thanks to the Honda twin cam 16V Civic CRX rev monster engine and gearbox fitted fast and frugal 
Those elements undoubtedly made it good, but the ride and handling were UK derived, the interior was a nice place to be, and it was screwed together properly. Good leather too.A year or two later I got my hands on a Civic with the full fat Vtec. Blimey. But not as nice as the Rover in some ways (and it needed fettling in warranty).
Back in 1982 my then boss replaced his 1978 model XJ6 with another new one...and was convinced Sir John Egan was making strides to improve quality at Browns Lane. So they could improve and not just through new models.
Shame they wasted so many opportunities.
The Don of Croy said:
Zener said:
All thanks to the Honda twin cam 16V Civic CRX rev monster engine and gearbox fitted fast and frugal
Those elements undoubtedly made it good, but the ride and handling were UK derived, the interior was a nice place to be, and it was screwed together properly. Good leather too.A year or two later I got my hands on a Civic with the full fat Vtec. Blimey. But not as nice as the Rover in some ways (and it needed fettling in warranty).
Honda's own version of the same body was the Concerto that was built in the UK with the same running gear inc the 1.4 carbed single cam 16v engine too Lily the Pink said:
An old post, but I do think the Maxi in particular has had a bad press. I think it was also a clever concept - perhaps with some flaws in detailed design such as the gearchange - and doubtless badly made. And the SD1 certainly looked the part of an executive saloon worthy of its Rover badge - and it's still a good looker to this day (IMV, obvs).
Maxi was not particularly attractive car but seemed to be pretty well engineered. In my eyes but the SD1 was a great looking design that ws well thought out, with an all alloy V8, super simple self leveling system and lots of space. Again not particularly well built but very well engineered. I'd buy one.alabbasi said:
In my eyes but the SD1 was a great looking design that ws well thought out, with an all alloy V8, super simple self leveling system and lots of space. Again not particularly well built but very well engineered. I'd buy one.
I thought the SD1 looked fantastic when it was launched, but the spec did seem a bit retrograde compared to the P6B 3500S I had complete with inboard rear disc brakes and a De Dion rear axle - even if the wallowy suspension settings didn't do it any favours. 
I maligned the SD1 unfairly . I meant to refer to something else from the chamber of horrors (good range of choice ) but my brain faded. The SD1 was a lovely looking thing and I enjoyed driving a friend's car. I was amazed at the sneak preview spy shots that the front end really was from a Daytona- brave move Rover. I loved the 2000 too, the epitome of cool and modern early Sixties' design - the interior especially. But in the way of things , by the end of its life it had been primped and pimped by the addition of silly little styling tweaks which served only to dilute the original design's impact.
But the Maxi ? It was an awful , awful car .It looked like your fat Auntie , had a gearchange that relied more on faith than science , a wheezy engine and its advertising USP was that the seats reclined.
I was skimming through an old copy of CAR the other day , and an MGB advert from 1975 epitomised how bloody hopeless BL had become . It was a two page spread boasting about how a speed record breaking MGA driven by Stirling Moss was its forbear. Moss retired in 1962 , the record was set in 1957 . 90% of the text was about the MGA , which was superseded by the B in 1962 . Bathing in the reflection of past glories seems a national obsession , then as now .
But the Maxi ? It was an awful , awful car .It looked like your fat Auntie , had a gearchange that relied more on faith than science , a wheezy engine and its advertising USP was that the seats reclined.
I was skimming through an old copy of CAR the other day , and an MGB advert from 1975 epitomised how bloody hopeless BL had become . It was a two page spread boasting about how a speed record breaking MGA driven by Stirling Moss was its forbear. Moss retired in 1962 , the record was set in 1957 . 90% of the text was about the MGA , which was superseded by the B in 1962 . Bathing in the reflection of past glories seems a national obsession , then as now .
A tale of a Montego straight off the PDI.
Was one of the facelift ones with PAS, drove it 3 miles and then when parking the auxiliary pulley that served the PAS sheared off, I opened the glove box to see what rescue service it came with. On slamming this closed the whole glove box assembly fell about 3 inches.
The doors never aligned with each other, or the wings, hadn’t seen that since till my wife leased the RR showing such awful QC is still available from factories in England.
Was one of the facelift ones with PAS, drove it 3 miles and then when parking the auxiliary pulley that served the PAS sheared off, I opened the glove box to see what rescue service it came with. On slamming this closed the whole glove box assembly fell about 3 inches.
The doors never aligned with each other, or the wings, hadn’t seen that since till my wife leased the RR showing such awful QC is still available from factories in England.
I have a confession to make, I loved the Allegro! It was my first company car and I could really hustle it about. Sadly it got written off when I T-boned a car that pulled out in front of me at a crossroads. The replacement was a Mk4 Cortina, I can't remember if it was 1.2 or 1.3, it was a horrid car, totally gutless, no road holding, just terrible. We are talking about the days when the difference between L and GL spec was one door mirror or two!
In the late eighties I worked as a mechanic. Non dealership so all second hand stuff.
Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
Build quality and reliability BL were no worse than any other ( Ford, Vauxhall, Rootes, etc ) but for me they just made very undesirable cars.
A few exceptions but generally horrible things.
But what people forget is all cars in those days were pretty grim.
alabbasi said:
Lily the Pink said:
An old post, but I do think the Maxi in particular has had a bad press. I think it was also a clever concept - perhaps with some flaws in detailed design such as the gearchange - and doubtless badly made. And the SD1 certainly looked the part of an executive saloon worthy of its Rover badge - and it's still a good looker to this day (IMV, obvs).
Maxi was not particularly attractive car but seemed to be pretty well engineered. In my eyes but the SD1 was a great looking design that ws well thought out, with an all alloy V8, super simple self leveling system and lots of space. Again not particularly well built but very well engineered. I'd buy one.
te, but it was to far along.The Marina was knocked together to compete against the Cortina because the Maxi wasn’t up to it.
Both cars were meant to last five years!!
In the end the MK3 Cortina was a bigger car/class so they failed again.
They compounded their mess by purposely not giving the Allegro and the Princess a hatchback because that was the Maxi unique selling point!!
You couldn’t make those divvies up.
As I say, built quality was good on these cars, the problem was the constant strikes, they would leave up to 200 cars stranded on the production line, and those cars would never be put together right.
StuntmanMike said:
The Maxi was a BMC car that BL inherited. BL would not have put it into production as it was deemed ste, but it was to far along.
The Marina was knocked together to compete against the Cortina because the Maxi wasn’t up to it.
Both cars were meant to last five years!!
In the end the MK3 Cortina was a bigger car/class so they failed again.
They compounded their mess by purposely not giving the Allegro and the Princess a hatchback because that was the Maxi unique selling point!!
You couldn’t make those divvies up.
As I say, built quality was good on these cars, the problem was the constant strikes, they would leave up to 200 cars stranded on the production line, and those cars would never be put together right.
As I understood it, the 1100/1300 series did well against the Cortina with private owners but fleet buyers wanted basic reliable and RWD but more modern than the Morris Minor. te, but it was to far along.The Marina was knocked together to compete against the Cortina because the Maxi wasn’t up to it.
Both cars were meant to last five years!!
In the end the MK3 Cortina was a bigger car/class so they failed again.
They compounded their mess by purposely not giving the Allegro and the Princess a hatchback because that was the Maxi unique selling point!!
You couldn’t make those divvies up.
As I say, built quality was good on these cars, the problem was the constant strikes, they would leave up to 200 cars stranded on the production line, and those cars would never be put together right.
So the idea was to rebody the Morris Minor and keep the Austin name for FWD cars and Morris for what at the time was seen as more conventional technology. So the 1300 was replaces by the Allegro, which was purely Austin without Morris MG Wolseley or Vanden Plas versions. I'm not sure of the exact timing but the Minor replacement was enlarged to compete with the Cortina MK3, or for the same reason the Cortina 3 was enlarged over the 2, and it became the Marina still with bits of Minor in it.
The Allegro was ruined by last minute design changes and as you say, by the lack of a hatchback.
It's tempting to think of the Cortina as the Mondeo of it's day. But the early ones were 1200cc and available as a two door.
More like a contemporary Fiesta with the Anglia as the Ka. Then the Anglia was replaced by the Escort and the Cortina Mk2 by the 3 as a general upsizing.
All this talk of hatchbacks and missed opportunities.
Very few cars were hatchbacks.
The 1100/1300 was not a hatchback and though they offered a stylish Countryman estate, it was a rare sight compared to the saloons.
There were many hatchback-shaped saloons like the Alfasud, Datsun Cherry etc but most manufacturers also marketed an estate, for practicality and a coupe for style.
Sadly, the Allegro estate came late and was a worse styling effort than the saloon.
So BLs problem was not really marketing a saloon instead of a hatchback but failing to offer any decent alternative. Can you imagine how huge a Princess estate would have been?
The Maxi was not a good looker from Day One and a Cortina Estate was a far more stylish product. The Marina Estate and Coupe was as good as BL got to a competitive range but even then, using saloon doors for the Coupe spoilt that too.
Vauxhall also snatched a fail from the jaws of victory when it decided to make less practical "fastback" Viva and Victor estates which just cut down their carrying capacity and I think this is why a Princess hatchback would still have lost out to cavernous estates like the Granada or Citroen CX.
Very few cars were hatchbacks.
The 1100/1300 was not a hatchback and though they offered a stylish Countryman estate, it was a rare sight compared to the saloons.
There were many hatchback-shaped saloons like the Alfasud, Datsun Cherry etc but most manufacturers also marketed an estate, for practicality and a coupe for style.
Sadly, the Allegro estate came late and was a worse styling effort than the saloon.
So BLs problem was not really marketing a saloon instead of a hatchback but failing to offer any decent alternative. Can you imagine how huge a Princess estate would have been?
The Maxi was not a good looker from Day One and a Cortina Estate was a far more stylish product. The Marina Estate and Coupe was as good as BL got to a competitive range but even then, using saloon doors for the Coupe spoilt that too.
Vauxhall also snatched a fail from the jaws of victory when it decided to make less practical "fastback" Viva and Victor estates which just cut down their carrying capacity and I think this is why a Princess hatchback would still have lost out to cavernous estates like the Granada or Citroen CX.
StuntmanMike said:
They compounded their mess by purposely not giving the Allegro and the Princess a hatchback because that was the Maxi unique selling point!!
Strange though that the Rover SD1 came out as a hatch and seemed to make good sales in waht shoudl have been a saloon sector.Perhaps because it ws a hatch. Wasnt it the Rover hatch that prevented the Princess hatch? Diferent cars RWD and FWD.
Keep it stiff said:
I have a confession to make, I loved the Allegro! It was my first company car and I could really hustle it about. Sadly it got written off when I T-boned a car that pulled out in front of me at a crossroads. The replacement was a Mk4 Cortina, I can't remember if it was 1.2 or 1.3, it was a horrid car, totally gutless, no road holding, just terrible. We are talking about the days when the difference between L and GL spec was one door mirror or two!
I also liked mine. An early 1500, in a dull matt red bought as a winter beater. Comfy, smoky, and just kept going. It was a s
tty horrible winter too but the allegro coped. saaby93 said:
StuntmanMike said:
They compounded their mess by purposely not giving the Allegro and the Princess a hatchback because that was the Maxi unique selling point!!
Strange though that the Rover SD1 came out as a hatch and seemed to make good sales in waht shoudl have been a saloon sector.Perhaps because it ws a hatch. Wasnt it the Rover hatch that prevented the Princess hatch? Diferent cars RWD and FWD.
Creating British Leyland was like putting a dozen feral cats in a bag and expecting them to get along.
Rover had a V8 and Triumph had 4 and 6 cylinder engines. So when Rover wanted 4 and 6 cylinder SD1s and Triumph wanted a V8 Stag, did they rationalise? No, they wouldn't be seen dead doing that, so they developed their own engines.
Rover had a mid-engined V8 coupe prototype. Oh no you don't, said Jaguar, and that got canned.
The story about Jaguar designing the XJ40 so that it couldn't take the Rover V8 is a myth, but Jaguar engineers told BL management that the V8 wouldn't fit, and nobody bothered to check.
Rozzers said:
A tale of a Montego straight off the PDI.
Was one of the facelift ones with PAS, drove it 3 miles and then when parking the auxiliary pulley that served the PAS sheared off, I opened the glove box to see what rescue service it came with. On slamming this closed the whole glove box assembly fell about 3 inches.
The doors never aligned with each other, or the wings, hadn’t seen that since till my wife leased the RR showing such awful QC is still available from factories in England.
My uncle had a Montego Vanden Plas (note, never ever referred to as the Montego, always the 'Vanden Plas'). Lovely grey leather interior with matching door cards and trim, however for some reason one of the interior door handles was blue plastic rather than grey. Was one of the facelift ones with PAS, drove it 3 miles and then when parking the auxiliary pulley that served the PAS sheared off, I opened the glove box to see what rescue service it came with. On slamming this closed the whole glove box assembly fell about 3 inches.
The doors never aligned with each other, or the wings, hadn’t seen that since till my wife leased the RR showing such awful QC is still available from factories in England.
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