JD Classics, what have they been up to?

JD Classics, what have they been up to?

Author
Discussion

BobToc

1,768 posts

116 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Oh I agree entirely regarding Charme’s TS advisors. But again, we’re not talking about cheque kiting, we’re talking about entirely fictitious sales for more than half of the top 50 trades in a low volume business. On the list of things I would want to check (as either an auditor or buy side DD) this would be high up the list.

ettore

4,119 posts

251 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
The VC that bought in should have been carrying out its own regular, in depth checks also.

Ultimately fraud happens and good fraudsters, who are quite often accountants by training, know how to cook books so that third parties won't see anything during normal procedures. The law suit will settle whether Hood was really good at what he was doing or whether the market professionals were really bad.
I guess they eventually did exactly that (although PE not VC)

CharlesdeGaulle

26,089 posts

179 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
I'm not great with figures, am easily confused and don't much enjoy detail. I'm beginning to realise that I've missed my vocation as an auditor with this crowd.

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I'm not great with figures, am easily confused and don't much enjoy detail. I'm beginning to realise that I've missed my vocation as an auditor with this crowd.
I was one. It’s easy smile

Doofus

25,732 posts

172 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Burwood said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I'm not great with figures, am easily confused and don't much enjoy detail. I'm beginning to realise that I've missed my vocation as an auditor with this crowd.
I was one. It’s easy smile
I showed one of the partners of my firm some dubious transactions I'd found on an audit. He chucked the paper in the bin and said "He's one of our biggest clients. Let's just ignore it."

thegreenhell

15,110 posts

218 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Who audits the auditors?

ettore

4,119 posts

251 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Who audits the auditors?
The Insolvency Practitioners!

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Doofus said:
Burwood said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I'm not great with figures, am easily confused and don't much enjoy detail. I'm beginning to realise that I've missed my vocation as an auditor with this crowd.
I was one. It’s easy smile
I showed one of the partners of my firm some dubious transactions I'd found on an audit. He chucked the paper in the bin and said "He's one of our biggest clients. Let's just ignore it."
We had a document shredding party. True. I worked for the bigger of the big 4. I remember my audit days at Laura ashley in wales well. I quit after that.

Doofus

25,732 posts

172 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Doofus said:
Burwood said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I'm not great with figures, am easily confused and don't much enjoy detail. I'm beginning to realise that I've missed my vocation as an auditor with this crowd.
I was one. It’s easy smile
I showed one of the partners of my firm some dubious transactions I'd found on an audit. He chucked the paper in the bin and said "He's one of our biggest clients. Let's just ignore it."
We had a document shredding party. True. I worked for the bigger of the big 4. I remember my audit days at Laura ashley in wales well. I quit after that.
I worked for a two partner firm that made me redundant after running out of clients due to being crap.

I may or may not have been part of the problem.

55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
BobToc said:
Willhire89 said:
If there was a carousel of money which circled around repeatedly and that matched the purchase/sales then what else could PwC do?

Clearly if there was a sale for £1M and no £1M ever appeared through any of the JDCL accounts then that is basic stuff but if the fraud was sophisticated enough to match payments then it gets very hard to spot compounded if (as with Tuke) the deals were often multi car involving swaps and trades
It is hard to catch, but if an auditor can’t be expected to pickup that 29 of the 50 most profitable sales never happened (not exaggerated, not mis-stated, they were entirely fictitious), then I’m even more negatively disposed towards the audit profession.
Is it possible to lodge a FOI at DVLA and then, with the official history of all the registrations involved work out when the cars were bought/sold/sorn/taxed/in trade?


BobToc

1,768 posts

116 months

Tuesday 27th July 2021
quotequote all
I’m no expert, but I would have thought so! I mean what I struggle with is that they didn’t (allegedly) fake one transaction but twenty nine. Mental.

mk1coopers

1,199 posts

151 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
BobToc said:
I’m no expert, but I would have thought so! I mean what I struggle with is that they didn’t (allegedly) fake one transaction but twenty nine. Mental.
Isn't it a case of getting away with it once (probably on a smaller ££ scale) then doing it again and again each time getting more confident that you are so clever that no one else will ever see what you are doing, until someone does....

tight fart

2,868 posts

272 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
Ok i'm no accountant but I would have thought if the books had showed he'd done so many profitable transactions
the tax liability would have been huge, as a company what is the advantage in saying in the books I've earned
millions when I haven't?
As for DD, how hard is it to look at the bank accounts to see £50k go out to buy a car and The £million come in when sold.

Lying the other way round would make more sense, sending the funds offshore to hide profits.

Burwood

18,709 posts

245 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
tight fart said:
Ok i'm no accountant but I would have thought if the books had showed he'd done so many profitable transactions
the tax liability would have been huge, as a company what is the advantage in saying in the books I've earned
millions when I haven't?
As for DD, how hard is it to look at the bank accounts to see £50k go out to buy a car and The £million come in when sold.

Lying the other way round would make more sense, sending the funds offshore to hide profits.
The tax liability was significant and it was paid. It was borrowed money and it was necessary to perpetuate the fraud. Remember that the shareholders (Hood) would inflate the company valuation via the bigger earnings.

Reading the Administrators report they have already claimed and received a Corporation Tax refund from HMRC for 8.3M

The administration isn't going to cost just 13.5M as stated above. They expect legal fees and expenses to exceed 13.5M AND administrator fees to exceed 6.5M. So in excess of £20M.

HMRC did go after Hood and filed bankruptcy petitions. No idea what for but why not criminal charges. Funny that a third party paid HMRC to settle Hoods debts (his wife I'm guessing).


BobToc

1,768 posts

116 months

Wednesday 28th July 2021
quotequote all
mk1coopers said:
BobToc said:
I’m no expert, but I would have thought so! I mean what I struggle with is that they didn’t (allegedly) fake one transaction but twenty nine. Mental.
Isn't it a case of getting away with it once (probably on a smaller ££ scale) then doing it again and again each time getting more confident that you are so clever that no one else will ever see what you are doing, until someone does....
Yeah, that’s quite believable. Again I’m not expert but I suspect that’s how a few people get themselves in trouble.

Noyzboy

93 posts

217 months

Sunday 5th September 2021
quotequote all
Unfunny echo from the past with amazing similarities

Gray v Smith & Ors | [2013] EWHC 4136 (Comm) | England and Wales High Court (Commercial Court) | Judgment | Law | CaseMine

and

https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/n...

Is Richard Edwards still in the fancy motor trade

neutral 3

6,356 posts

169 months

Monday 6th September 2021
quotequote all
That US court case re all of those cars “ disappearing “ from Specialist Cars of Malton is just.....
I knew Graeme Scholes of left hand drive, but he suddenly vanished a couple of years ago.

Edited by neutral 3 on Monday 6th September 02:43

neutral 3

6,356 posts

169 months

Monday 6th September 2021
quotequote all
Noyzboy said:
Unfunny echo from the past with amazing similarities

Gray v Smith & Ors | [2013] EWHC 4136 (Comm) | England and Wales High Court (Commercial Court) | Judgment | Law | CaseMine

and

https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/n...

Is Richard Edwards still in the fancy motor trade
Too long to read all of it, but it’s shocking reading.......

Petrus1983

8,518 posts

161 months

Monday 6th September 2021
quotequote all
neutral 3 said:
Too long to read all of it, but it’s shocking reading.......
I’ve got to page 12 and my heads already fuzzy. If I was a defendant I’d be very worried - the US system is very complex, expensive and won’t care about them being English or not. This is the part that would worry me the most -



Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) comes with a 20 year sentence if successfully prosecuted. Unlike the UK where it seems acceptable to file for bankruptcy and walk away, in the States it’s used a lot.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Racketeer-Influen...


Eta - I’ve got to the end to realise it relates to September 2017, wonder how it ended.

Some extra digging shows that the case against all defendants apart from Thomas Hamann was dropped in April 2018.

https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/n...



Edited by Petrus1983 on Monday 6th September 04:00

wisbech

2,939 posts

120 months

Monday 6th September 2021
quotequote all
A previous case involving Mr Edwards...

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff75160d0...

Shorter version

https://www.wilmotslitigation.co.uk/wilmots-litiga...

Edited by wisbech on Monday 6th September 08:34