Discussion
Just recently changed the rears on my M235i from the factory fitted Michelin Pilot Super Sports to Michelin Pilot Sport 4's and have driven ~300 miles since, put in the correct tyre pressures and even had a full 4 wheel alignment after fitting.
Grip levels have improved massively from standstill, I can put the power down in 1st now in most road conditions which is a revelation, however, the backend does feel twitchy in scenarios where it felt planted previously... For example, accelerating out of bends and when booting it on roads with slight camber.
Could this be the fact that the tyres need a little more time to bed in? Or just the fact that the PS4's aren't as grippy in general compared to the MPSS' (I knew this, but it feels like a big difference at times, especially when my outgoing MPSS' almost had thread showing)? Or could it even be the alignment itself? When getting the alignment the 'before' print out was way off factory in every aspect (front/rear toe and camber), so if anything it should be a big improvement in that respect...
Grip levels have improved massively from standstill, I can put the power down in 1st now in most road conditions which is a revelation, however, the backend does feel twitchy in scenarios where it felt planted previously... For example, accelerating out of bends and when booting it on roads with slight camber.
Could this be the fact that the tyres need a little more time to bed in? Or just the fact that the PS4's aren't as grippy in general compared to the MPSS' (I knew this, but it feels like a big difference at times, especially when my outgoing MPSS' almost had thread showing)? Or could it even be the alignment itself? When getting the alignment the 'before' print out was way off factory in every aspect (front/rear toe and camber), so if anything it should be a big improvement in that respect...
S9JTO said:
Just recently changed the rears on my M235i from the factory fitted Michelin Pilot Super Sports to Michelin Pilot Sport 4's and have driven ~300 miles since, put in the correct tyre pressures and even had a full 4 wheel alignment after fitting.
Grip levels have improved massively from standstill, I can put the power down in 1st now in most road conditions which is a revelation, however, the backend does feel twitchy in scenarios where it felt planted previously... For example, accelerating out of bends and when booting it on roads with slight camber.
Could this be the fact that the tyres need a little more time to bed in? Or just the fact that the PS4's aren't as grippy in general compared to the MPSS' (I knew this, but it feels like a big difference at times, especially when my outgoing MPSS' almost had thread showing)? Or could it even be the alignment itself? When getting the alignment the 'before' print out was way off factory in every aspect (front/rear toe and camber), so if anything it should be a big improvement in that respect...
Perhaps the fronts being MPSS and the rears being PS4s are causing it? Seems most logical given what you have had done so far.Grip levels have improved massively from standstill, I can put the power down in 1st now in most road conditions which is a revelation, however, the backend does feel twitchy in scenarios where it felt planted previously... For example, accelerating out of bends and when booting it on roads with slight camber.
Could this be the fact that the tyres need a little more time to bed in? Or just the fact that the PS4's aren't as grippy in general compared to the MPSS' (I knew this, but it feels like a big difference at times, especially when my outgoing MPSS' almost had thread showing)? Or could it even be the alignment itself? When getting the alignment the 'before' print out was way off factory in every aspect (front/rear toe and camber), so if anything it should be a big improvement in that respect...
457892345 said:
Perhaps the fronts being MPSS and the rears being PS4s are causing it? Seems most logical given what you have had done so far.
Yeah maybe, but the front end turn is unchanged, purely the rear end feeling slightly unstable in scenarios/conditions they were previously fine in...Just to clarify, are they pilot sport 4 or pilot sport 4s?
Reason I ask is because they are quite different, with the PS4S's being the replacement (in the long term, whilst stocks last etc) for the MPSS.
The 4 is not a runflat as well as not being the same 'calibre' as the 4s.
This is a friends experience / info - he owns an m235i
Reason I ask is because they are quite different, with the PS4S's being the replacement (in the long term, whilst stocks last etc) for the MPSS.
The 4 is not a runflat as well as not being the same 'calibre' as the 4s.
This is a friends experience / info - he owns an m235i
Edited by TommyBuoy on Tuesday 13th November 23:53
TommyBuoy said:
Just to clarify, are they pilot sport 4 or pilot sport 4s?
Reason I ask is because they are quite different, with the PS4S's being the replacement (in the long term, whilst stocks last etc) for the MPSS.
The 4 is not a runflat as well as not being the same 'calibre' as the 4s.
This is a friends experience / info - he owns an m235i
Pilot Sport 4 - Didn't know 4s' were runflats?Reason I ask is because they are quite different, with the PS4S's being the replacement (in the long term, whilst stocks last etc) for the MPSS.
The 4 is not a runflat as well as not being the same 'calibre' as the 4s.
This is a friends experience / info - he owns an m235i
Edited by TommyBuoy on Tuesday 13th November 23:53
I bought the PS4's based on many M-lite owners reviews stating that they're better than the MPSS' in UK conditions, which makes sense, but doesn't feel like it so far that's all!
The MPSS is a UHP tyre (ultra high performance) whereas the MPS4 (and the 4S) aren't.
This means the MPSS needs warming up but maintains its grip level with surface temperatures of 110deg C. You'll want to adjust the pressures 3 or 4 times if you're really pushing this tyre.
The pilot sport 4 tyres aren't and work from colder temperatures but degrade more with heat (Max temp is 100deg C but drop off in grip is noticeable at 90ish).
In my experience the MPS4 and MPS4S do the road car stuff better (on centre feel, linearity, comfort, 'cold' performance) but at the limit lack side force capacity and don't transition to slip smoothly (and have lower grip than the MPSS anyway).
Therefore with the MPSS you'll see the ultimate grip level will be higher, if a bit of prewarming is required, and the driveability at the limit easier.
Unfortunately rolling resistance regulations are killing this great tyre...
This means the MPSS needs warming up but maintains its grip level with surface temperatures of 110deg C. You'll want to adjust the pressures 3 or 4 times if you're really pushing this tyre.
The pilot sport 4 tyres aren't and work from colder temperatures but degrade more with heat (Max temp is 100deg C but drop off in grip is noticeable at 90ish).
In my experience the MPS4 and MPS4S do the road car stuff better (on centre feel, linearity, comfort, 'cold' performance) but at the limit lack side force capacity and don't transition to slip smoothly (and have lower grip than the MPSS anyway).
Therefore with the MPSS you'll see the ultimate grip level will be higher, if a bit of prewarming is required, and the driveability at the limit easier.
Unfortunately rolling resistance regulations are killing this great tyre...
John145 said:
The MPSS is a UHP tyre (ultra high performance) whereas the MPS4 (and the 4S) aren't.
This means the MPSS needs warming up but maintains its grip level with surface temperatures of 110deg C. You'll want to adjust the pressures 3 or 4 times if you're really pushing this tyre.
The pilot sport 4 tyres aren't and work from colder temperatures but degrade more with heat (Max temp is 100deg C but drop off in grip is noticeable at 90ish).
In my experience the MPS4 and MPS4S do the road car stuff better (on centre feel, linearity, comfort, 'cold' performance) but at the limit lack side force capacity and don't transition to slip smoothly (and have lower grip than the MPSS anyway).
Therefore with the MPSS you'll see the ultimate grip level will be higher, if a bit of prewarming is required, and the driveability at the limit easier.
Unfortunately rolling resistance regulations are killing this great tyre...
Come again? the MPSS was replaced by the MPS4S! It is a UHP tyre!This means the MPSS needs warming up but maintains its grip level with surface temperatures of 110deg C. You'll want to adjust the pressures 3 or 4 times if you're really pushing this tyre.
The pilot sport 4 tyres aren't and work from colder temperatures but degrade more with heat (Max temp is 100deg C but drop off in grip is noticeable at 90ish).
In my experience the MPS4 and MPS4S do the road car stuff better (on centre feel, linearity, comfort, 'cold' performance) but at the limit lack side force capacity and don't transition to slip smoothly (and have lower grip than the MPSS anyway).
Therefore with the MPSS you'll see the ultimate grip level will be higher, if a bit of prewarming is required, and the driveability at the limit easier.
Unfortunately rolling resistance regulations are killing this great tyre...
The MPS4, however is not. I suspect the OP has fitted the wrong tyres.
Ninja59 said:
Come again? the MPSS was replaced by the MPS4S! It is a UHP tyre!
The MPS4, however is not. I suspect the OP has fitted the wrong tyres.
I was under the same impression, however I didn't fit the wrong tyres! I consciously opted for the PS4's over MPSS/PS4s based on fellow M-lite owners' rave reviews! The price difference was negligible, I just thought they'd perform better in standard UK weather conditions (especially during winter). The MPS4, however is not. I suspect the OP has fitted the wrong tyres.
As mentioned in my OP, the grip from standstill is immense but when pushing on a bit or accelerating out of a few twisty bends the back-end isn't as planted. I was just wondering whether it was due to a) tyres still need bedding in b) PS4's are noticeably not as 'grippy' (despite being brand new compared to sub 2mm MPSS') or c) my alignment
S9JTO said:
I was under the same impression, however I didn't fit the wrong tyres! I consciously opted for the PS4's over MPSS/PS4s based on fellow M-lite owners' rave reviews! The price difference was negligible, I just thought they'd perform better in standard UK weather conditions (especially during winter).
As mentioned in my OP, the grip from standstill is immense but when pushing on a bit or accelerating out of a few twisty bends the back-end isn't as planted. I was just wondering whether it was due to a) tyres still need bedding in b) PS4's are noticeably not as 'grippy' (despite being brand new compared to sub 2mm MPSS') or c) my alignment
Answer above As mentioned in my OP, the grip from standstill is immense but when pushing on a bit or accelerating out of a few twisty bends the back-end isn't as planted. I was just wondering whether it was due to a) tyres still need bedding in b) PS4's are noticeably not as 'grippy' (despite being brand new compared to sub 2mm MPSS') or c) my alignment
xjay1337 said:
Pilot Sport 4 all round on my m135i
Work great, even on track , not toooooooo much behind a PSS in ultimate grip
Interesting - Could be down to the imbalance of having MPSS up front still, I had my reservations about this but after other owners saying they've done the same with no real side effects I went ahead. May need to buy some PS4's for the front axle then Work great, even on track , not toooooooo much behind a PSS in ultimate grip
What PSI are you running front and rear?
I'm running 32PSI/35PSI...
A lot of confusion here and in most topics regarding Michelin tyres. Probably why the OP ended up with the wrong tyres.
The PS4 and PS4S are different tyres. The PS4 is a less performance orientated tyre and is available in smaller wheel sizes 18" and below. The PS4S is the UHP tyre for 19" and above although I think they may be available in 18" soon.
The PS4S replaces the MPSS and is a better tyre in every measure (if only slightly).
I moved from MPSS to MP4S last year. The only real difference is they grip slightly better and seem to be lasting slightly longer.
TyreReviews has done several videos on the PS4S. The one comparing it to the predecessor is here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
The PS4 and PS4S are different tyres. The PS4 is a less performance orientated tyre and is available in smaller wheel sizes 18" and below. The PS4S is the UHP tyre for 19" and above although I think they may be available in 18" soon.
The PS4S replaces the MPSS and is a better tyre in every measure (if only slightly).
I moved from MPSS to MP4S last year. The only real difference is they grip slightly better and seem to be lasting slightly longer.
TyreReviews has done several videos on the PS4S. The one comparing it to the predecessor is here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
CarAbuser said:
A lot of confusion here and in most topics regarding Michelin tyres. Probably why the OP ended up with the wrong tyres.
The PS4 and PS4S are different tyres. The PS4 is a less performance orientated tyre and is available in smaller wheel sizes 18" and below. The PS4S is the UHP tyre for 19" and above although I think they may be available in 18" soon.
The PS4S replaces the MPSS and is a better tyre in every measure (if only slightly).
I moved from MPSS to MP4S last year. The only real difference is they grip slightly better and seem to be lasting slightly longer.
TyreReviews has done several videos on the PS4S. The one comparing it to the predecessor is here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
Completely aware of all of the above - Just didn't think the difference would be so noticeable in some scenarios (cornering in wet/greasy conditions), if anything I thought it would be better based on the fact they've got ~300 miles on them whereas my outgoing MPSS' had less than 2mm of tread and even the thread starting to show on the inside (due my previously dodgy alignment)The PS4 and PS4S are different tyres. The PS4 is a less performance orientated tyre and is available in smaller wheel sizes 18" and below. The PS4S is the UHP tyre for 19" and above although I think they may be available in 18" soon.
The PS4S replaces the MPSS and is a better tyre in every measure (if only slightly).
I moved from MPSS to MP4S last year. The only real difference is they grip slightly better and seem to be lasting slightly longer.
TyreReviews has done several videos on the PS4S. The one comparing it to the predecessor is here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65rXOlS2f8
RobM77 said:
Sounds like an imbalance caused by different tyres front and rear to me. Accelerating in a straight line obviously only really leans on the rears, but as soon as you're cornering you're using both.
Very possible - Hoping to rule that out though so I don't have to fork out another £200+ so soon 
... But if that's the cause then they'll be on order ASAP.May be worth noting that the front tyres' sidewalls are shagged despite having 4-5mm tread left due to a combination of shoddy alignment and incorrect tyre pressures from the previous owner/BMW I think - So, after re-aligning they'll be using a slightly different contact patch? (I don't know much about alignment or tyres in general, just a thought...)
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