Electrifying Classic Cars
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Ah. Politics. I see. Forget the politics as it’s for the silly folk, especially all the envirotwaddle about buying more stuff to solve the problem of people buying too much stuff.
If you can get beyond the DM thinking then you’ll be able to understand that sticking an electric motor in an old car might be a bit of fun and of interest to some car enthusiasts.
Indeed. For some, it would also be a way of getting better performance and reliability, such that the car is on the road more often. If you can get beyond the DM thinking then you’ll be able to understand that sticking an electric motor in an old car might be a bit of fun and of interest to some car enthusiasts.
As for envirotwaddle, well, despite loving them, I can't but help confess that I always know when I'm in a queue with a classic car ahead of me. The smell of unburnt fuel is the giveaway.
DonkeyApple said:
If you can get beyond the DM thinking then you’ll be able to understand that sticking an electric motor in an old car might be a bit of fun and of interest to some car enthusiasts.
In the same way as sticking an electric motor and 3rd rail shoe to a LNER Peppercorn Class A1 locomotive would appeal to some steam enthusiasts? 
bigdog3 said:
futile: ineffectual; useless; incapable of producing any result; not successful:
Unless self gratification or taking the moral high ground can be considered useful, futile applies to electrifying classic cars. Beyond gesturing, literally there is no point.
Massively improved performance and reliability, far better drivability, and can be used in low emission zones Unless self gratification or taking the moral high ground can be considered useful, futile applies to electrifying classic cars. Beyond gesturing, literally there is no point.
Hardly futile
Dave Hedgehog said:
bigdog3 said:
futile: ineffectual; useless; incapable of producing any result; not successful:
Unless self gratification or taking the moral high ground can be considered useful, futile applies to electrifying classic cars. Beyond gesturing, literally there is no point.
Massively improved performance and reliability, far better drivability, and can be used in low emission zones Unless self gratification or taking the moral high ground can be considered useful, futile applies to electrifying classic cars. Beyond gesturing, literally there is no point.
Hardly futile
bigdog3 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Massively improved performance and reliability, far better drivability, and can be used in low emission zones
Hardly futile
Don't corrupt the classics, just get a modern EV Hardly futile
I don't have a classic because I can't afford one as well as the crap daily I already have but if I could then I would. But I wouldn't electrify it. Surely as soon as you put an electric motor in a 'classic' it is no longer the car it was.
An MGBGT with an electric motor is just an MGBGT shaped box with most of the character sucked out. What's the point of that?
Electric motors are for modern cars not classics.
bigdog3 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Massively improved performance and reliability, far better drivability, and can be used in low emission zones
Hardly futile
Don't corrupt the classics, just get a modern EV Hardly futile
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 24th August 06:23
Johnspex said:
An MGBGT with an electric motor is just an MGBGT shaped box with most of the character sucked out. What's the point of that?
The nasty engine was one of the worst features of the MGB and GT. Another pre-war design engine pressed into service because it was the only one the makers had access to.singlecoil said:
The nasty engine was one of the worst features of the MGB and GT. Another pre-war design engine pressed into service because it was the only one the makers had access to.
An MGB without an RV8 would be a good candidate for a bit of fun. There are lots about to mess about with. As more EVs hit the roads and more get crashed or their bodies rot away then there is going to be more and more pull outs available for mucking about with.
A replacement battery pack for a Leaf cost £20k back in 2011, by 2015 it was £5k and today it’s something like £2k.
People do engine swaps in old cars all the time and all an electric motor is doing is offering a new dynamic and experience which is a good thing.
There’s really no place for politics here, especially as most of our classics are subject to the same tax subsidies as EVs, we get free VED and free access to ULEZ and we hardly use any petrol. so there is no political reason to do this, it’s just about fun, doing something different and creating a different experience because we can, not because we have to.
The £20k cost of the conversions are the OTT, but it's early days. The £10k for a Tesla S motor-thingy is just too much to be viable for anything but a money-no-object speed-oriented classic.
It would be great if some medium-power electric drivetrain became a well-supported standard, around which a marketplace would develop.
But I didn't and if I could have an electric P1800 or Traction Avant at an affordable figure, I'd jump at the chance. It would become my daily driver (whereas a petrol version would not) and the benefit is that people would get to see one more gorgeous characterful car on the road instead of a modern dulls-ville Leaf/Zoe/etc.
It would be great if some medium-power electric drivetrain became a well-supported standard, around which a marketplace would develop.
NDNDNDND said:
If those things are so important to you at the expense of the car's character, then I would suggest you didn't want a classic car in the first place.
I can only speak for myself, but the classic cars I fell in love with were all due to the external design. I suppose if I'd fallen for a Ferrari Dino, or an XK120 or even a Honda S800, then the engine's originality and need for near-constant tinkering with the oily bits might be considered part of the appeal. But I didn't and if I could have an electric P1800 or Traction Avant at an affordable figure, I'd jump at the chance. It would become my daily driver (whereas a petrol version would not) and the benefit is that people would get to see one more gorgeous characterful car on the road instead of a modern dulls-ville Leaf/Zoe/etc.
Escapegoat said:
The £20k cost of the conversions are the OTT, but it's early days. The £10k for a Tesla S motor-thingy is just too much to be viable for anything but a money-no-object speed-oriented classic.
It would be great if some medium-power electric drivetrain became a well-supported standard, around which a marketplace would develop.
But I didn't and if I could have an electric P1800 or Traction Avant at an affordable figure, I'd jump at the chance. It would become my daily driver (whereas a petrol version would not) and the benefit is that people would get to see one more gorgeous characterful car on the road instead of a modern dulls-ville Leaf/Zoe/etc.
I find it strange logic that if you had an electric Traction Avant you'd use it every day. Why not a petrol one? It would be great if some medium-power electric drivetrain became a well-supported standard, around which a marketplace would develop.
NDNDNDND said:
If those things are so important to you at the expense of the car's character, then I would suggest you didn't want a classic car in the first place.
I can only speak for myself, but the classic cars I fell in love with were all due to the external design. I suppose if I'd fallen for a Ferrari Dino, or an XK120 or even a Honda S800, then the engine's originality and need for near-constant tinkering with the oily bits might be considered part of the appeal. But I didn't and if I could have an electric P1800 or Traction Avant at an affordable figure, I'd jump at the chance. It would become my daily driver (whereas a petrol version would not) and the benefit is that people would get to see one more gorgeous characterful car on the road instead of a modern dulls-ville Leaf/Zoe/etc.
By swapping to an electric motor you're not suddenly making the running gear more reliable, or the body work less prone to rust. The electric motor and transmission would still need some maintenance. Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable.
I really don't see how fitting an electric motor is going to suddenly make things all good and useable.
Prices are still high but wait for the model 3 to appear and to be in the hands of younger and less intelligent punters. The number of leftnover Tesla bits will rocket.
Plus, there are more Leafs, Zoe’s and i3s every year so more of those being driven into trees.
Early adopters of ‘autopilot’ systems will also supply the used market with plenty of parts.
Plus, there are more Leafs, Zoe’s and i3s every year so more of those being driven into trees.
Early adopters of ‘autopilot’ systems will also supply the used market with plenty of parts.
eccles said:
...Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable...
That's not actually been my findings, depending on what is meant by 'quite' reliable. Lack of reliability with the sort of classics I'm most familiar (British cars of the 60s and 70s) is one of the main reasons why the car industry in this country almost died altogether. BLMC etc just didn't seem to grasp that producing cars which might or might not start in the morning was simply NFG.singlecoil said:
eccles said:
...Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable...
That's not actually been my findings, depending on what is meant by 'quite' reliable. Lack of reliability with the sort of classics I'm most familiar (British cars of the 60s and 70s) is one of the main reasons why the car industry in this country almost died altogether. BLMC etc just didn't seem to grasp that producing cars which might or might not start in the morning was simply NFG.In our street you were as likely to see someone pushing a Ford or a Datsun to bump start it as much as you'd see them pushing a BL car.
I run a mid 70's Peugeot and a an early 80's Mercedes, both of which I've found to be reliable. These cars are used rain or shine, and are quite often used for weeks at a time as daily drivers.
eccles said:
singlecoil said:
eccles said:
...Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable...
That's not actually been my findings, depending on what is meant by 'quite' reliable. Lack of reliability with the sort of classics I'm most familiar (British cars of the 60s and 70s) is one of the main reasons why the car industry in this country almost died altogether. BLMC etc just didn't seem to grasp that producing cars which might or might not start in the morning was simply NFG.In our street you were as likely to see someone pushing a Ford or a Datsun to bump start it as much as you'd see them pushing a BL car.
I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.
And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.
singlecoil said:
eccles said:
singlecoil said:
eccles said:
...Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable...
That's not actually been my findings, depending on what is meant by 'quite' reliable. Lack of reliability with the sort of classics I'm most familiar (British cars of the 60s and 70s) is one of the main reasons why the car industry in this country almost died altogether. BLMC etc just didn't seem to grasp that producing cars which might or might not start in the morning was simply NFG.In our street you were as likely to see someone pushing a Ford or a Datsun to bump start it as much as you'd see them pushing a BL car.
This is not to do with their reputation, this is to do with my actual experience at the time of which I am writing.
I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.
And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.
singlecoil said:
This is not to do with their reputation, this is to do with my actual experience at the time of which I am writing.
I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.
And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.
Are you sure you want a classic car at all? Perhaps you should just collect diecast models of them, but drive everywhere in a nice, quiet, reliable Nissan Leaf?I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.
And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.
eccles said:
You have experience of cars with electric motors then? Or are you just assuming they'll be more reliable? There's a rich history on modern cars of having unreliable electric components like ecu's and sensors, and guess what electric cars still have a lot of this stuff to go wrong.
I don't personally have experience of electric cars but fortunately in this day and age it doesn't disqualify me from having a valid opinion on the subject, and that is that generally speaking electric cars are inherently more reliable than ICE cars. Of course they have stuff that can go wrong, but we are talking likelihoods here, not possibilities.It's my position that a (for instance) Mk2 Triumph Vitesse fitted with a modern electric traction motor and associated parts would be much more reliable than the same car with its origianl engine. Surely you're not going to dispute that?
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