Electrifying Classic Cars

[singlecoil]

NDNDNDND said:

singlecoil said:

This is not to do with their reputation, this is to do with my actual experience at the time of which I am writing.

I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.

And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.

Are you sure you want a classic car at all? Perhaps you should just collect diecast models of them, but drive everywhere in a nice, quiet, reliable Nissan Leaf?

I don't see cars from the era we are discussing in the same way that you and several others here do. To me they are icons of their time, a good time as it happens, that are constructed of various parts. There's nothing sacred about those parts or their configuration, and I would be happy to change any of them should I see an advantage in doing so.

So by all means buy a classic and do everything you can to preserve it in its original state if that what you want to do, but please don't try to belittle me for holding a different view.

[Escapegoat]

eccles said:

I find it strange logic that if you had an electric Traction Avant you'd use it every day. Why not a petrol one?

By swapping to an electric motor you're not suddenly making the running gear more reliable, or the body work less prone to rust. The electric motor and transmission would still need some maintenance. Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable.
I really don't see how fitting an electric motor is going to suddenly make things all good and useable.

Not sure if serious! Chokes, jets, points, timing, decades-old pumps, dwindling supply of seals, etc, etc. I've got one of the most reliable engines ever made (1UZ) and if the classics that we're talking about had engines as well engineered as that, you might have a point. But they don't. (It's no accident that the 1UZ is sought after as a replacement engine for all sorts of projects.)

Electric motors need almost no maintenance and are way more reliable. Toyota gives a 15 year warranty, for example. I'd not use a petrol TA as a daily because the 20mpg or so is too expensive compared to an EV.

I get it that some purists are wilting at the very idea of electrifying a classic, but when the MGBGT is touted as a reference point, it's clear we have a head-vs-heart thing. We're not talking about museum pieces here; I'm talking about continuing to run once-stylish cars which fashion and technology has left behind.

[bigdog3]

singlecoil said:

eccles said:

You have experience of cars with electric motors then? Or are you just assuming they'll be more reliable? There's a rich history on modern cars of having unreliable electric components like ecu's and sensors, and guess what electric cars still have a lot of this stuff to go wrong.

I don't personally have experience of electric cars but fortunately in this day and age it doesn't disqualify me from having a valid opinion on the subject, and that is that generally speaking electric cars are inherently more reliable than ICE cars. Of course they have stuff that can go wrong, but we are talking likelihoods here, not possibilities.

It's my position that a (for instance) Mk2 Triumph Vitesse fitted with a modern electric traction motor and associated parts would be much more reliable than the same car with its origianl engine. Surely you're not going to dispute that?

Who will engineer, develop and install the electric motor, control system and battery pack for that Mk2 Triumph Vitesse ?

[singlecoil]

bigdog3 said:

singlecoil said:

eccles said:

You have experience of cars with electric motors then? Or are you just assuming they'll be more reliable? There's a rich history on modern cars of having unreliable electric components like ecu's and sensors, and guess what electric cars still have a lot of this stuff to go wrong.

I don't personally have experience of electric cars but fortunately in this day and age it doesn't disqualify me from having a valid opinion on the subject, and that is that generally speaking electric cars are inherently more reliable than ICE cars. Of course they have stuff that can go wrong, but we are talking likelihoods here, not possibilities.

It's my position that a (for instance) Mk2 Triumph Vitesse fitted with a modern electric traction motor and associated parts would be much more reliable than the same car with its origianl engine. Surely you're not going to dispute that?

Who will engineer, develop and install the electric motor, control system and battery pack for that Mk2 Triumph Vitesse ?

The obvious solution is to fit the gubbins from a donor vehicle. It doesn't need to be specially engineered for that application. People have been swapping engine, transmissions and control systems for a long time. I've done quite a bit myself. There's always a way.

That does mean though that one mustn't think of a Mk2 Triumph Vitesse as being sacrosanct, it's just a car and it's made up of parts. I should know, I've built and dismantled plenty of cars.

[bigdog3]

singlecoil said:

The obvious solution is to fit the gubbins from a donor vehicle. It doesn't need to be specially engineered for that application. People have been swapping engine, transmissions and control systems for a long time. I've done quite a bit myself. There's always a way.

That does mean though that one mustn't think of a Mk2 Triumph Vitesse as being sacrosanct, it's just a car and it's made up of parts. I should know, I've built and dismantled plenty of cars.

So you will be taking account of issues like shaft whirling speeds, peak torque through critical driveline components, accelerated fatigue life, any nasty effects from harmonics, component cooling, powertrain mounting etc. Factors which influence durability and reliability.

Good to know there are experts doing these conversions

[singlecoil]

bigdog3 said:

Good to know there are experts doing these conversions

There are indeed such experts. I'm not an expert in this field (I am in others) so I expect should I decide to go down the electric classic road I would enlist one of them.

[Yertis]

The sound of the engine is the Vitesse’s most attractive feature

[DonkeyApple]

singlecoil said:

There are indeed such experts. I'm not an expert in this field (I am in others) so I expect should I decide to go down the electric classic road I would enlist one of them.

It’s like sticking a V8 in a car built for a 4 pot, if you opt for a big electric motor you’re going to have to beef up the rest of the running gear but if you opt for a set up which produces the kind of torque that the running gear can handle then that’s the sensible starting point.

The fact that it has already been done tends to make me suspect that it is doable and unless you’re a Yorkshireman then electricity isn’t all that frightening.

[NDNDNDND]

singlecoil said:

NDNDNDND said:

singlecoil said:

This is not to do with their reputation, this is to do with my actual experience at the time of which I am writing.

I found Fords and Datsuns to be much more reliable, probably mostly because they didn't use Lucas ignition systems.

And being 'as reliable as any other cars of their era' (not that I agree with that) wouldn't make them anywhere near as reliable as a car fitted with an electric motor.

Are you sure you want a classic car at all? Perhaps you should just collect diecast models of them, but drive everywhere in a nice, quiet, reliable Nissan Leaf?

I don't see cars from the era we are discussing in the same way that you and several others here do. To me they are icons of their time, a good time as it happens, that are constructed of various parts. There's nothing sacred about those parts or their configuration, and I would be happy to change any of them should I see an advantage in doing so.

So by all means buy a classic and do everything you can to preserve it in its original state if that what you want to do, but please don't try to belittle me for holding a different view.

I just don't think your point of view makes any sense. Of course I don't think old cars should be preserved in aspic, and of course I know they're constructed of interchangeable components.
I was helping a neighbour a couple of weeks ago with his Lancia Fulvia as he's having ignition trouble - I'm not about to castigate him for making the decision to switch to electronic ignition. I've done various little things on my own 80's Camaro including throwing away the restrictive log manifolds in favour in tubular headers and removing the catalytic converter, or adapting the headlights so they're switched through relays and use modern H4 bulbs rather than sealed beams.
The thing is, each of these things either enhance or don't affect the character of the car.
Removing the engine in favour of an electric motor completely removes a huge, fundamental part of the nature of the car and turns it into merely a shell. It renders the ownership of the car rather pointless. At that point it may as well be a garden ornament as a mode of transport. It makes as much sense as adapting a Nissan Leaf to run using a Pinto engine - it simply removes its whole purpose of being.
Like I said, if all you really care about is the aesthetic of a classic car, you might as well just collect diecast models and drive around in something modern.

[singlecoil]

NDNDNDND said:

I just don't think your point of view makes any sense.

Do you expect me to care what you think?

[T-195]

singlecoil said:

NDNDNDND said:

I just don't think your point of view makes any sense.

Do you expect me to care what you think?

Why not import a Lada engined Yank classic from Cuba if you care more about cheap running than character and originality?

[singlecoil]

T-195 said:

singlecoil said:

NDNDNDND said:

I just don't think your point of view makes any sense.

Do you expect me to care what you think?

Why not import a Lada engined Yank classic from Cuba if you care more about cheap running than character and originality?

Why don't you get off this thread and find one more to your liking?

[eccles]

Escapegoat said:

eccles said:

I find it strange logic that if you had an electric Traction Avant you'd use it every day. Why not a petrol one?

By swapping to an electric motor you're not suddenly making the running gear more reliable, or the body work less prone to rust. The electric motor and transmission would still need some maintenance. Most classic cars if properly maintained and used regularly are quite reliable.
I really don't see how fitting an electric motor is going to suddenly make things all good and useable.

Not sure if serious! Chokes, jets, points, timing, decades-old pumps, dwindling supply of seals, etc, etc. I've got one of the most reliable engines ever made (1UZ) and if the classics that we're talking about had engines as well engineered as that, you might have a point. But they don't. (It's no accident that the 1UZ is sought after as a replacement engine for all sorts of projects.)

Electric motors need almost no maintenance and are way more reliable. Toyota gives a 15 year warranty, for example. I'd not use a petrol TA as a daily because the 20mpg or so is too expensive compared to an EV.

I get it that some purists are wilting at the very idea of electrifying a classic, but when the MGBGT is touted as a reference point, it's clear we have a head-vs-heart thing. We're not talking about museum pieces here; I'm talking about continuing to run once-stylish cars which fashion and technology has left behind.

Not sure if you seriously think the only unreliable part of a car is the engine!

I've nothing against people putting electric motors in classic cars, or changing the power unit for a more modern one, I don't like it, but it's up to them.
What I find really strange is that some seem to think dropping in an electric motor is suddenly going to make that 50 year old car, with it's 50 year old wiring and suspension etc into a magically more reliable old car than if it had it's original engine.

[singlecoil]

eccles said:

I've nothing against people putting electric motors in classic cars, or changing the power unit for a more modern one, I don't like it, but it's up to them.
What I find really strange is that some seem to think dropping in an electric motor is suddenly going to make that 50 year old car, with it's 50 year old wiring and suspension etc into a magically more reliable old car than if it had its original engine.

I've had a lot of old cars and I've experienced my share of reliability problems, and most of them have been engine related. So in my case a modern electric propulsion system would absolutely make it more reliable.

[T-195]

singlecoil said:

T-195 said:

singlecoil said:

NDNDNDND said:

I just don't think your point of view makes any sense.

Do you expect me to care what you think?

Why not import a Lada engined Yank classic from Cuba if you care more about cheap running than character and originality?

Why don't you get off this thread and find one more to your liking?

It was just trying to be helpful.

[singlecoil]

T-195 said:

It was just trying to be helpful.

helpful snide

[lowdrag]

I am wondering just how people are going to cope with recharging during bank holidays etc. Here in France we use a traffic light system to describe traffic density, but we also have "black" weekends which are the worst of all. These are during the holiday period and next week will be the last of them for this year I think. Coming home last year we could not even find a parking space at the service station, nor the next, and had to drive about 60 miles before finding somewhere we could park and grab a bite to eat and a coffee. How on earth is the infrastructure going to cope with that? We could, of course, have filled up if necessary but if you can't park you can't recharge.

[Escapegoat]

lowdrag said:

I am wondering just how people are going to cope with recharging during bank holidays etc. Here in France we use a traffic light system to describe traffic density, but we also have "black" weekends which are the worst of all. These are during the holiday period and next week will be the last of them for this year I think. Coming home last year we could not even find a parking space at the service station, nor the next, and had to drive about 60 miles before finding somewhere we could park and grab a bite to eat and a coffee. How on earth is the infrastructure going to cope with that? We could, of course, have filled up if necessary but if you can't park you can't recharge.

HMG expects the market to sort out plentiful charging points.

(TBH, there are BH weekends when I decide not to travel at all - not even train bus replacement service.)

[bigdog3]

singlecoil said:

eccles said:

I've nothing against people putting electric motors in classic cars, or changing the power unit for a more modern one, I don't like it, but it's up to them.
What I find really strange is that some seem to think dropping in an electric motor is suddenly going to make that 50 year old car, with it's 50 year old wiring and suspension etc into a magically more reliable old car than if it had its original engine.

I've had a lot of old cars and I've experienced my share of reliability problems, and most of them have been engine related. So in my case a modern electric propulsion system would absolutely make it more reliable.

Wonder what you are doing to cause all these engine problems? Perhaps in your case an electric motor is the best solution

[singlecoil]

bigdog3 said:

singlecoil said:

eccles said:

I've nothing against people putting electric motors in classic cars, or changing the power unit for a more modern one, I don't like it, but it's up to them.
What I find really strange is that some seem to think dropping in an electric motor is suddenly going to make that 50 year old car, with it's 50 year old wiring and suspension etc into a magically more reliable old car than if it had its original engine.

I've had a lot of old cars and I've experienced my share of reliability problems, and most of them have been engine related. So in my case a modern electric propulsion system would absolutely make it more reliable.

Wonder what you are doing to cause all these engine problems? Perhaps in your case an electric motor is the best solution

I'm getting tired of your attempts to provoke me. If you have nothing useful to say on this thread you should cease posting on it. You've already made your position clear.