Electrifying Classic Cars
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
I think they started with old Rollers, which if you think about it are perfect for electrification because they were built to be as quiet, smooth and unsmelly as possible and an electric motor suddenly achieves that in spades. Plus the size of the cars makes burying those Victorian bricks much easier and much less intrusive on the driving experience.
The 120 is a more difficult one because the engine does form part of the character more strongly but there’s no great shortage of XKs and the engine transplant like all good engine transplants delivers and entirely new dynamic and experience.
Lots of nice regen on braking with a roller!The 120 is a more difficult one because the engine does form part of the character more strongly but there’s no great shortage of XKs and the engine transplant like all good engine transplants delivers and entirely new dynamic and experience.
fatbutt said:
Seen this? https://lunaz.design/production/jaguar-xk120
My first post in this thread a few pages ago:leglessAlex said:
I'd utterly love an electric Pagoda.
Blib's 500 brought me here, but as it happens I was thinking about electric classic cars anyway. Last night I was out for a walk and saw this, it looked absolutely fab:
It was utterly beautiful in the flesh, although I guess all restored 120s are. I'd rather a roadster/speedster version I think, but yeah. If I had the money I'd be all over it. Blib's 500 brought me here, but as it happens I was thinking about electric classic cars anyway. Last night I was out for a walk and saw this, it looked absolutely fab:
As Donkey says, however, I think their other car is even more suioted to it. Turning up to a swanky hotel in a silent, classic Rolls? Yes please.
DonkeyApple said:
pingu393 said:
The future in electric classics would be bright if you were exempted from the ULEZ and congestion charges.
You are, are you not? The conversion companies supply you with the paperwork in order to reregister your car with TFL. Speed 3 said:
Not personally been bitten by the EV bug but this is quite thought provoking:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48956000
Whilst the noise and originality is important for me, I think this will be a way of seeing vastly more classics stay in use rather than museum pieces. As the tax/emissions regimes make petrol cars less and less viable, I'd prefer to see this than most having to be trailered to "theme park" track or static display.
Wouldn’t touch any sort of EV, old or new.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48956000
Whilst the noise and originality is important for me, I think this will be a way of seeing vastly more classics stay in use rather than museum pieces. As the tax/emissions regimes make petrol cars less and less viable, I'd prefer to see this than most having to be trailered to "theme park" track or static display.
That article mentions a Morris Minor. I'm seriously considering converting a mint, minor convertible, that I've found locally.
I reckon I could drive it for a couple of summers, then sell it on without losing a penny. Maybe even earn a few quid.
I can actually see, in my mind's eye, who I'll sell it to in spring 2023.
Her name is Prescilla, a thirty something, who works in fashion and she lives in Chelsea, or Dalston.
Sorted!
I reckon I could drive it for a couple of summers, then sell it on without losing a penny. Maybe even earn a few quid.
I can actually see, in my mind's eye, who I'll sell it to in spring 2023.
Her name is Prescilla, a thirty something, who works in fashion and she lives in Chelsea, or Dalston.
Sorted!
Old cars I’ve had that I’d definitely consider converting
Spitfire
TR 7
Mini 1275gt
Karmann ghia
Those I wouldn’t unless really had to
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Mercury cougar
It really is down to the importance of the engine in the total package.
But I wouldn’t rule it out for any of them if I had to. There are some very serious advantages in taking this route in my opinion
Spitfire
TR 7
Mini 1275gt
Karmann ghia
Those I wouldn’t unless really had to
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Mercury cougar
It really is down to the importance of the engine in the total package.
But I wouldn’t rule it out for any of them if I had to. There are some very serious advantages in taking this route in my opinion
stuartmmcfc said:
Old cars I’ve had that I’d definitely consider converting
Spitfire
TR 7
Mini 1275gt
Karmann ghia
Those I wouldn’t unless really had to
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Mercury cougar
It really is down to the importance of the engine in the total package.
But I wouldn’t rule it out for any of them if I had to. There are some very serious advantages in taking this route in my opinion
XJ6’s and old Shadows are ideal candidates. Personally, I wouldn’t bother with a sports car as you just wouldn’t have the range to drive wherever, however and whenever you wanted. But for a commuting or shopping wagon it makes perfect sense for something a bit more fun. Spitfire
TR 7
Mini 1275gt
Karmann ghia
Those I wouldn’t unless really had to
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Mercury cougar
It really is down to the importance of the engine in the total package.
But I wouldn’t rule it out for any of them if I had to. There are some very serious advantages in taking this route in my opinion
The Main gripe with the EV classics from what I gather is the lack of Noise and character.
Which is a problem for "CERTAIN" cars..
For example, a Citroen DS would be an ideal EV conversion, no one buys one for the engine, they do for the ride and the drop dead gorgeous looks and the funny handling..
A "bad" example would be converting a Triumph stag or TVR which are two odd examples so bear with!
A small sports car like an MG Midget is a perfect example of a 50/50 split between good/bad, on one hand you have the great handling the looks and maybe a leccy motor and batteries, the upside being not much weight to move around so i'm assuming not too many batteries.
And it would be fun to drive..
the other 50% is the crowd who loves to tinker, and this would relieve many of this ability, for me personally I find it a stress reliever to tinker with engines, and hear them rumble to life on a cold morning!!
Next Ideal EV candidate would be a Silver shadow or Spirit, here are two cars with quiet in mind, yes they have the legendary v8 however with a well tuned example you'd be hard pressed to hear it!!
So an electric motor would be ideal, however on those specifically you have the braking system and height levelling that runs off pumps on the cam of the engine, and unless you have a motor that is constantly rotating to keep up the pressure I wouldn't see that working without dropping the range to a hilarious level!
And you may say "johnny cash's" silver shadow was recently EV converted, what they fail to tell you is it is a Model S chassis with a shadow body on top!!
Completely re engineered and it cost in excess of 100k just to convert!
Back to reality waffling!
As Classic cars age new classics will emerge, cars like the late 1990s Mercs or 7 series are a good example cars produced in the mid 2000s are seeing rises in value..
So the classic car EV conversion movement will stop at a point, and again i hear you say "people are managing to convert modern cars to EV" and I'd agree one such chap is "Darren maguire" on Youtube who has done a fair share of conversions on the cheap
HOWEVER the range is never listed and the peak horsepower is neither!
Speaking to London electric and Electric classics limited you can indeed convert a modern vehicle to run on EV however the range and drivablilty is reduced to such a degree it seems almost a financial ruin to attempt
All classic EV's have a range of between 55 and 150mi the latter being rather good, however that is usually a smaller vehicle like a fiat 500.
Something like a series Landy EV is somewhere between 40 and 55mi and being the conversion is 25k and up is it really worth it?
I dunno..
I own a p38 a 4.6 gasp! v8 and if you look there is a p38 which has been converted by the youtuber I listed above, there was no "real world driving" once completed and he just heaved it on, so no real scope of what was achieved was actually shown,
Range is a sensitive subject in this chaps case!
Next up is the death of ICE and petrol etc etc..
The doomsday people will say the ICE's days are numbered and they'd be right!
But by how much!
EV sales have rocketed this year..
However have a gander at this..
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/international/20...
Yes Ev sales have skyrocketed but have you noticed something?
NO SEPARATE PHEV SCALE!!
How much of 2020's 17% EV sales are PHEV I hear you ask! Half pretty much it was a split so if we split the difference for the sake or argument we have 8.5% PURE EV, and 8.5% PHEV.
55% of all car sales were Petrol while 27% were diesel 55+27 = 82% of cars sold in europe were ICE if we account for the ICE sold the year before aswell, seeing as they all haven't disappeared, that is a lot of ICE on the road, especially considering they're "quote" dying!
And if we included PHEV as part of the ICE department "which they should be" i'll add the 8.5% on to the 82 and we have 90.5% of cars sold in europe had an engine in them in some form..
EV has skyrocketed due to the shear number of models being offered when compared to 2018-19 , the more models you offer the more you sell the better the EV market will do..
The Range anxiety argument is a falsity for starters even if EV's had a 700mi range from 15mins of charge ICE would still have a future..
Why?
Most EV's are perfectly fine, the majority of people aren't going to exploit even a 175mi range in one day so the worry of running out in my opinion is false,
What some people don't realise is car buying is highly Illogical process the majority of people don't need a new car, they just want one!
So if we applied this logic why are we junking and scrapping cars left and right, all the while buying new chariots?
Reason being lots of people couldn't give jack carp how Green a car is or how far it'll get you on a charge or a tank, most buy a car they want, rarely what they need.
You only have to look at the fact SUV sales have danced all over the competition to see my point!
Most who buy a Tesla model S could well cope with a Nissan Leaf.
And those who buy a stonking great X6 could probably cope easily with a 3 series estate!
The incentives for ev's will stay until a set point..
Once they start losing VED and Petrol/diesel duty then you'll see a change in attitude, a good example is my Grans Nissan Micra diesel from 2003 she paid £60 a year a few years ago when Derv was all the rage...
Overnight it seemed they went "aha" now you pay £150 because we have decided in a split decision that diesels are evil!
So you're saying they didn't know this before then?!
A load of Bull if you ask me!!
I could add more!
A bit rantish!
I'm not anti EV but the attitude that we must convert to preserve is idiocy.
new pumps are opening across england.
The locals around me have been revamped!
Surely they wouldn't sink millions into a dying industry!
Which is a problem for "CERTAIN" cars..
For example, a Citroen DS would be an ideal EV conversion, no one buys one for the engine, they do for the ride and the drop dead gorgeous looks and the funny handling..
A "bad" example would be converting a Triumph stag or TVR which are two odd examples so bear with!
- 1 The stag you buy for the engine note, and the styling no one i've spoken to rings praises about the handling characteristics or the comfort, just the waffle of the exhaust which is understandable!
A small sports car like an MG Midget is a perfect example of a 50/50 split between good/bad, on one hand you have the great handling the looks and maybe a leccy motor and batteries, the upside being not much weight to move around so i'm assuming not too many batteries.
And it would be fun to drive..
the other 50% is the crowd who loves to tinker, and this would relieve many of this ability, for me personally I find it a stress reliever to tinker with engines, and hear them rumble to life on a cold morning!!
Next Ideal EV candidate would be a Silver shadow or Spirit, here are two cars with quiet in mind, yes they have the legendary v8 however with a well tuned example you'd be hard pressed to hear it!!
So an electric motor would be ideal, however on those specifically you have the braking system and height levelling that runs off pumps on the cam of the engine, and unless you have a motor that is constantly rotating to keep up the pressure I wouldn't see that working without dropping the range to a hilarious level!
And you may say "johnny cash's" silver shadow was recently EV converted, what they fail to tell you is it is a Model S chassis with a shadow body on top!!
Completely re engineered and it cost in excess of 100k just to convert!
Back to reality waffling!
As Classic cars age new classics will emerge, cars like the late 1990s Mercs or 7 series are a good example cars produced in the mid 2000s are seeing rises in value..
So the classic car EV conversion movement will stop at a point, and again i hear you say "people are managing to convert modern cars to EV" and I'd agree one such chap is "Darren maguire" on Youtube who has done a fair share of conversions on the cheap
HOWEVER the range is never listed and the peak horsepower is neither!
Speaking to London electric and Electric classics limited you can indeed convert a modern vehicle to run on EV however the range and drivablilty is reduced to such a degree it seems almost a financial ruin to attempt
All classic EV's have a range of between 55 and 150mi the latter being rather good, however that is usually a smaller vehicle like a fiat 500.
Something like a series Landy EV is somewhere between 40 and 55mi and being the conversion is 25k and up is it really worth it?
I dunno..
I own a p38 a 4.6 gasp! v8 and if you look there is a p38 which has been converted by the youtuber I listed above, there was no "real world driving" once completed and he just heaved it on, so no real scope of what was achieved was actually shown,
Range is a sensitive subject in this chaps case!
Next up is the death of ICE and petrol etc etc..
The doomsday people will say the ICE's days are numbered and they'd be right!
But by how much!
EV sales have rocketed this year..
However have a gander at this..
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/international/20...
Yes Ev sales have skyrocketed but have you noticed something?
NO SEPARATE PHEV SCALE!!
How much of 2020's 17% EV sales are PHEV I hear you ask! Half pretty much it was a split so if we split the difference for the sake or argument we have 8.5% PURE EV, and 8.5% PHEV.
55% of all car sales were Petrol while 27% were diesel 55+27 = 82% of cars sold in europe were ICE if we account for the ICE sold the year before aswell, seeing as they all haven't disappeared, that is a lot of ICE on the road, especially considering they're "quote" dying!
And if we included PHEV as part of the ICE department "which they should be" i'll add the 8.5% on to the 82 and we have 90.5% of cars sold in europe had an engine in them in some form..
EV has skyrocketed due to the shear number of models being offered when compared to 2018-19 , the more models you offer the more you sell the better the EV market will do..
The Range anxiety argument is a falsity for starters even if EV's had a 700mi range from 15mins of charge ICE would still have a future..
Why?
Most EV's are perfectly fine, the majority of people aren't going to exploit even a 175mi range in one day so the worry of running out in my opinion is false,
What some people don't realise is car buying is highly Illogical process the majority of people don't need a new car, they just want one!
So if we applied this logic why are we junking and scrapping cars left and right, all the while buying new chariots?
Reason being lots of people couldn't give jack carp how Green a car is or how far it'll get you on a charge or a tank, most buy a car they want, rarely what they need.
You only have to look at the fact SUV sales have danced all over the competition to see my point!
Most who buy a Tesla model S could well cope with a Nissan Leaf.
And those who buy a stonking great X6 could probably cope easily with a 3 series estate!
The incentives for ev's will stay until a set point..
Once they start losing VED and Petrol/diesel duty then you'll see a change in attitude, a good example is my Grans Nissan Micra diesel from 2003 she paid £60 a year a few years ago when Derv was all the rage...
Overnight it seemed they went "aha" now you pay £150 because we have decided in a split decision that diesels are evil!
So you're saying they didn't know this before then?!
A load of Bull if you ask me!!
I could add more!
A bit rantish!
I'm not anti EV but the attitude that we must convert to preserve is idiocy.
new pumps are opening across england.
The locals around me have been revamped!
Surely they wouldn't sink millions into a dying industry!
Re electrifying a Shad: I've seen someone did a DS, which has the same sort of hydraulic stuff and they got all that working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6f4WXd0w5o
Seperate motor for the hydro pump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6f4WXd0w5o
Seperate motor for the hydro pump.
Where the conversions make most sense currently is if you live in a city such as London and the bulk of your travelling is either public transport, taxis or aeroplanes and you just keep a car for infilling around those where it is more convenient etc.
As such you ideally want a smallish car that can survive the knocks of city life but is still going to be comfortable and practical.
Nissan Leaf running gear transplanted into a diesel Range Rover Classic would still be my choice. They are small cars with a footprint smaller than a 3 series nowadays, the diesel engine sucks the panache out of the car and anything would be an enhancement, it has space for the batteries without impinging on the usability and they drive extremely well in a city, soaking up the kerbs and holes and Uber’s keep their distance.
Refurb the whole car but keep the panels ratty and it would be a wonderful city car.
As such you ideally want a smallish car that can survive the knocks of city life but is still going to be comfortable and practical.
Nissan Leaf running gear transplanted into a diesel Range Rover Classic would still be my choice. They are small cars with a footprint smaller than a 3 series nowadays, the diesel engine sucks the panache out of the car and anything would be an enhancement, it has space for the batteries without impinging on the usability and they drive extremely well in a city, soaking up the kerbs and holes and Uber’s keep their distance.
Refurb the whole car but keep the panels ratty and it would be a wonderful city car.
Everytime I see talk of electric classics my mind just jumps to 3D TVs. Super expensive when they first gained prevalence and really quite clunky (the glasses, the lack of content etc). Wait a few years and they were half the price for double the experience (no crummy glasses and more content).
The same will happen with electrifying classics in 5 years.
The same will happen with electrifying classics in 5 years.
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