Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Discussion
LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars - And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp
For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.
For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
LuS1fer said:
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -
Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp
For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
I suspect on a slightly damp twisty road the 1300GT would have left the Escort for dead. Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp
For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
The engine in my 750MC Locost had was in effect a GT cam, single twin choke downdraft carb. It was fully blueprinted, gas-flowed (within the rules) running oversized pistons (+40 IIRC).
The work was done by Scholar Engineering who are one of the best in the business. On their dyno it made 78.5bhp which is apparently good for this spec so I'd take the 75 for a standard car with a pinch of salt.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
BMC power figures were very random. For example, both the 997 Cooper and 998 Cooper were rated at 55 bhp. The 998 Cooper was markedly faster than the 997 on the same final drive.And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
1300GT units were 70 bhp and the S was 76, both with the same compression, carbs etc but the S cam (the 510) had a bit more inlet duration. The 1275GT used a standard single carb 1300 unit on a Cooper S close ratio box. Early ones with hydrolastic used the 1300 3.65 final drive, dry ones from mid '71 used the 3.44 'S' diff.
The S engine shared very little with any other 1275 - crank, rods, block, flywheel etc were all different.
MXRod said:
I may have got the head configuration mixed up ,but my Kestral definitely had twin SUs ,when I bought it I was told it was a "run out " model ,I seem to remember paying around £750 for it ,ah those were the days
You bought the last of them in 1969 though, by which time the Riley 1300 had the 70 bhp unit. AC43 said:
The standard 1275GT engine was a real damp squib. I built up a hotter version using a Cooper cam & dizzy, double valve springs & an LCB exhaust. I started with twin SU's and ended up with a single Dellorto.
I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.
For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts. I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.
For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
BL Special Tuning did a neat twin carbs/head/exhaust conversion for the GT. The GT also replaced the 998 Cooper, not the 'S'.
Touring442 said:
AC43 said:
The standard 1275GT engine was a real damp squib. I built up a hotter version using a Cooper cam & dizzy, double valve springs & an LCB exhaust. I started with twin SU's and ended up with a single Dellorto.
I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.
For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts. I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.
For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
BL Special Tuning did a neat twin carbs/head/exhaust conversion for the GT. The GT also replaced the 998 Cooper, not the 'S'.
Touring442 said:
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts.
In 1980 when insurance groups only went up to 8, the 1275 S was group 7 the 1071S and 970S were group 6 and 997/998 group 4 ( same as Midget/Sprite/Spitfire 1300 ) with one large motor insurer.Insurance Underwriters have long memories it seemed . The 1275 GT was group 4, later 3.
coppice said:
Au contraire , I suggest that something much more nuanced was at work . An Escort GT was a sporty version of the near identical , but slightly slower 1300XL and a less sybaritically appointed GXL - but it was still a Ford Escort. There was a hierarchy of Escorts but something rather weirder at BL , which flogged near identical cars aimed at entirely different markets , sometimes via different dealers .
So , a Riley 1300 - a sporty, well appointed car for the middle class gent who remembered when Rileys were something , if a something his budget wouldn't run to. Damned inflation - my war bonds don't keep up. . But I got the grille which makes my car look completely different from a mere, sniff, Morris.
MG 1300 - check out the stripes , the bright yellow and orange paint options, the racy steering wheel and - sigh - that gurning great MG front end . It's practically a racing car, and I can wave at owners of MG TCs , while listening to Radio 1. I might even subscribe to Safety Fast.
Wolseley 1300 - the epitome of understated luxury , with none of that sporty nonsense . A car for the man who stood ramrod straight for the National Anthem and whose car showed its owner's status and breeding by - gosh !- displaying a little light in the radiator.
Van den Plas 1300 - hard to pigeonhole the ownership demographic other than its monumental levels of self delusion .
Morris/Austin 1300 - to quote the Ronnie Barker /John Cleese sketch - 'I know my place '..
Vanden Plas 1100/1300 - Surrey based wife of Jaguar/Bentley/Rolls driving company chairman I would thinkSo , a Riley 1300 - a sporty, well appointed car for the middle class gent who remembered when Rileys were something , if a something his budget wouldn't run to. Damned inflation - my war bonds don't keep up. . But I got the grille which makes my car look completely different from a mere, sniff, Morris.
MG 1300 - check out the stripes , the bright yellow and orange paint options, the racy steering wheel and - sigh - that gurning great MG front end . It's practically a racing car, and I can wave at owners of MG TCs , while listening to Radio 1. I might even subscribe to Safety Fast.
Wolseley 1300 - the epitome of understated luxury , with none of that sporty nonsense . A car for the man who stood ramrod straight for the National Anthem and whose car showed its owner's status and breeding by - gosh !- displaying a little light in the radiator.
Van den Plas 1300 - hard to pigeonhole the ownership demographic other than its monumental levels of self delusion .
Morris/Austin 1300 - to quote the Ronnie Barker /John Cleese sketch - 'I know my place '..
Touring442 said:
The GT had the 7.5 inch S discs with a servo and should have been ok. These went up to 8.4 inches (without a servo) mid 1974 with the 12 inch wheels.
The 7 inch Cooper discs were a bit marginal however.
My base car was a Clubman with drums all round.The 7 inch Cooper discs were a bit marginal however.
I picked up some discs from Tam the Pole's scrapyard near Dunfermline.
They were miniscule and IIRC they came off a Cooper.
They were better than the drums but still pretty poor.
I suppose by then I was jumping in and out of my mates' Suds so they were bound to feel crap in comparison.
The Observers Book of Cars shows that both the Cooper S Mk II and the 1300GT had a 9.75:1 compression ratio compared to the 1275GT which had a lowly 8.8:1 compression ratio.
MPG is quoted as 28-29mpg which looks terrible nowadays.
Also of note is that the BMC cars had service intervals of 3000 miles whereas Ford cars were 6000 miles.
MPG is quoted as 28-29mpg which looks terrible nowadays.
Also of note is that the BMC cars had service intervals of 3000 miles whereas Ford cars were 6000 miles.
spanner10 said:
coppice said:
Van den Plas 1300 - hard to pigeonhole the ownership demographic other than its monumental levels of self delusion .
Vanden Plas 1100/1300 - Surrey based wife of Jaguar/Bentley/Rolls driving company chairman I would thinkcoppice said:
So , a Riley 1300 - a sporty, well appointed car for the middle class gent who remembered when Rileys were something ...
Of course the Jaguar/VDP DoubleSix driving director might have recalled their Riley or yesteryear and have lamented that there were no real Riley cars available to compete with the DoubleSix.LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars - And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp
For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
The BRM mini turbo was 93 BHP, but prototypes had the boost wound up to 120 bhp. And declared lethal.
LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars - And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp
For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
Wiki said:
The A12 engine (1171cc) produced 70 PS (51 kW) and 70 ft⋅lb (95 N⋅m) torque.
A special version of the A12 called the "A12 GX" engine was offered in Japanese Domestic Market Nissan Sunny 1200 GX sedans and coupes.
With twin Hitachi sidedraft carburetors, a longer duration camshaft and 10:1 compression ratio, it delivered 83 PS (61 kW) at 6400 rpm.
A special version of the A12 called the "A12 GX" engine was offered in Japanese Domestic Market Nissan Sunny 1200 GX sedans and coupes.
With twin Hitachi sidedraft carburetors, a longer duration camshaft and 10:1 compression ratio, it delivered 83 PS (61 kW) at 6400 rpm.
Job lot of 8 Marinas - seller has 40 (yes, forty!) and needs to get rid of some!
They're also listed individually if you don't want the full set
I would quite like the camper, but don't have space to put it or any justifyable reason to use it!
They're also listed individually if you don't want the full set
I would quite like the camper, but don't have space to put it or any justifyable reason to use it!
aeropilot said:
neutral 3 said:
Crikey.....that brings back memories....(or nighmares!) 
I'd almost forgotten what the inside of a TC Coupe looked like. Mine was a bluey-purple colour with similar colour brushed nylon seat facings - lovely
Any photos ?
And what is that Purple called ??
Il never forget my pal Vince, taking me out for a summers eve flat out hoon, along Waltham Way and onto Brimsdown, Nth Chingford, in his Dads N reg, Purple TC Coupe in summer 77.
I sadly lost touch with Vince a couple of years later, but I’m trying to track him down. If I do, il ask him if he has any photos of his Dads TC.
That’s the only one ive ever seen in Purple and I worked @ a Dire BL Main Agents from summer 77 to late 1980, worked on countless Marinas.
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