Any Marcos Fans?
Discussion
MarkwG said:
dandarez said:
And some 'youngsters' on here will call the period in time the 'bad ol' days'.
WRONG!
One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque.
I suspect if you can afford to have you & your car flown across the channel, any period of time would appear to be great...WRONG!
One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque. Today, if you could do it, I imagine it 'would' cost a fortune (but you and me and everyone else, if you hadn't noticed, have got a tunnel now!).
Back then multitudes did it.
Have a google at the kind of cars being loaded - everything from a Roller to a basic runabout like my Imp at the time, which I maintained (saving £££s to do other things with my cash). Different times.
Plenty of car companies made play of it then too.
cjb44 said:
mph said:
Looks a bit like a Bristol 404 but I don' think it is.
It is a Gilbern GT.Dandarez I thought you were a Ginetta man to the core!
But that doesn't prevent me liking other marques. Or owning them. Alfas to Reliant (well, Scimitar GT).
Oh, and you are right, it is a Gilbern GT. I know as much now about Gilbern as Ginetta. Possibly more!
Did you know (re Marcos) Jem tried to buy Gilbern? (or at least act as a consultant when the marque was in the doldrums - again!).
There's that old Ginetta story re Marcos - think I have this right, so many stories I forget some of them
- where Bob Walklett (MD of Ginetta) and Jem Marsh (who were good friends from when they formed the BSSCMA, and remained so, and later used to stir the pot at SMMT meetings!) had a chat about Ginetta's new G15 re it's rear engine placement at its Motor Show launch. Jem had said to Bob, 'you can keep that!' to which Bob replied 'We intend to Jem, we intend to.' 
And before I forget, Bob was always really complimentary about Gilbern, especially the GT.
ALL the specialist marques are sort of interlinked.
Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 28th April 23:19
dandarez said:
MarkwG said:
dandarez said:
And some 'youngsters' on here will call the period in time the 'bad ol' days'.
WRONG! One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque.
I suspect if you can afford to have you & your car flown across the channel, any period of time would appear to be great...WRONG!
One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque. Today, if you could do it, I imagine it 'would' cost a fortune (but you and me and everyone else, if you hadn't noticed, have got a tunnel now!).
Back then multitudes did it.
Have a google at the kind of cars being loaded - everything from a Roller to a basic runabout like my Imp at the time, which I maintained (saving £££s to do other things with my cash). Different times.
Plenty of car companies made play of it then too.
dandarez said:
I am.
But that doesn't prevent me liking other marques. Or owning them. Alfas to Reliant (well, Scimitar GT).
Oh, and you are right, it is a Gilbern GT. I know as much now about Gilbern as Ginetta. Possibly more!
Did you know (re Marcos) Jem tried to buy Gilbern? (or at least act as a consultant when the marque was in the doldrums - again!).
There's that old Ginetta story re Marcos - think I have this right, so many stories I forget some of them - where Bob Walklett (MD of Ginetta) and Jem Marsh (who were good friends from when they formed the BSSCMA, and remained so, and later used to stir the pot at SMMT meetings!) had a chat about Ginetta's new G15 re it's rear engine placement at its Motor Show launch. Jem had said to Bob, 'you can keep that!' to which Bob replied 'We intend to Jem, we intend to.'
And before I forget, Bob was always really complimentary about Gilbern, especially the GT.
ALL the specialist marques are sort of interlinked.
Yes, the manufacturers of fiberglass cars are an incestuous bunch, look how the first pinnings of the Grantura started out (Rochdale for those of you not as old as me)
Good to see you posting again, always enjoy your vast knowledge.
But that doesn't prevent me liking other marques. Or owning them. Alfas to Reliant (well, Scimitar GT).
Oh, and you are right, it is a Gilbern GT. I know as much now about Gilbern as Ginetta. Possibly more!
Did you know (re Marcos) Jem tried to buy Gilbern? (or at least act as a consultant when the marque was in the doldrums - again!).
There's that old Ginetta story re Marcos - think I have this right, so many stories I forget some of them
- where Bob Walklett (MD of Ginetta) and Jem Marsh (who were good friends from when they formed the BSSCMA, and remained so, and later used to stir the pot at SMMT meetings!) had a chat about Ginetta's new G15 re it's rear engine placement at its Motor Show launch. Jem had said to Bob, 'you can keep that!' to which Bob replied 'We intend to Jem, we intend to.' And before I forget, Bob was always really complimentary about Gilbern, especially the GT.
ALL the specialist marques are sort of interlinked.
Yes, the manufacturers of fiberglass cars are an incestuous bunch, look how the first pinnings of the Grantura started out (Rochdale for those of you not as old as me)
Good to see you posting again, always enjoy your vast knowledge.
Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 28th April 23:19
Elderly said:
A friend had an almost new white 1600GT in 1969.
We flew it from Lydd to Le Touquet in a Bristol Freighter; somewhere I have a photograph
of it being stuck at the top of the loading ramp onto the aircraft as the car had so little ground clearance.
I found a grotty contact print ...... before it got stuck We flew it from Lydd to Le Touquet in a Bristol Freighter; somewhere I have a photograph
of it being stuck at the top of the loading ramp onto the aircraft as the car had so little ground clearance.
Elderly said:
I've always marvelled at the concept of air freighting you and your car, I thought it was something only james Bond and Goldfinger could afford!How much would it have cost back then for say 2 people and a motor? Compared to the ferry of Hoverspeed (which wasnt exactly slow).
Born in 1968 BTW if it matters.
Loose_Cannon said:
I've always marvelled at the concept of air freighting you and your car, I thought it was something only james Bond and Goldfinger could afford!
How much would it have cost back then for say 2 people and a motor? Compared to the ferry of Hoverspeed (which wasnt exactly slow).
Born in 1968 BTW if it matters.
Funny you should ask - I found this just the other day - https://www.retrowow.co.uk/transport/air_car_ferri...How much would it have cost back then for say 2 people and a motor? Compared to the ferry of Hoverspeed (which wasnt exactly slow).
Born in 1968 BTW if it matters.
In the 60s my parents took their car to Ireland by air ferry, they weren't especially well off but compared to alternatives it made good sense. A whole day of holiday saved in each direction (the sea ferry was basically an overnight sailing after driving most of the day to get to the port).
MarkwG said:
dandarez said:
MarkwG said:
dandarez said:
And some 'youngsters' on here will call the period in time the 'bad ol' days'.
WRONG! One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque.
I suspect if you can afford to have you & your car flown across the channel, any period of time would appear to be great...WRONG!
One of the most fabulous periods in time (and into the 70's) - regardless of whatever marque. Today, if you could do it, I imagine it 'would' cost a fortune (but you and me and everyone else, if you hadn't noticed, have got a tunnel now!).
Back then multitudes did it.
Have a google at the kind of cars being loaded - everything from a Roller to a basic runabout like my Imp at the time, which I maintained (saving £££s to do other things with my cash). Different times.
Plenty of car companies made play of it then too.
I don't want to get into an argument, but can you tell me what 'normal life' is? I'm not getting carried away. I was there.
I agree, private Learjets surrounded by Ferraris is not 'normal' life. Everyone knows it is 'celeb' life.
However, in the 50s you could live a 'normal' life (ie: you'd have a roof over your head but probably little food in the larder because rationing had still been continuing) but by hard work many people were living as 'normal' lives as possible with food in the larder, and indeed had and continued to use those air services into the 60s. By the 70s the roll-on, roll-off sea ferries and hovercraft had virtually seen them off, which was the reason for the publicity, not that it wasn't affordable, it was a dying industry.
But prior to it disappearing, the cost was barely little more than the then new sea ferries, and had the advantage that it was far quicker. Someone above has even mentioned the cost.
The Kent airbase of Lydd was extremely busy and used not just by the well-heeled but by the public! Both my dad and his Polish pal were ex wartime RAF. Dad was in accountancy after the war, but jacked it in to go to the Cowley plant of Pressed Steel, later BMC etc, because of better wages. His Polish pal joined him later to become the only Polish worker at the time at the Cowley plant, how times change eh?
But more to the point, prior this flew for Air Ferries started by 'Taffy' Powell.
Hard to believe for you maybe, but the air ferries really were 'popular' and 'normal' then.
Comparing them that to Learjets and Ferraris is not daft, it's stupid.
Guess how many flights I mean by the word 'popular'?
Get ready to gulp out your coffee (or tea or whatever). Taffy had started his air ferries after the war and by the mid 50s the new Lydd Ferryfield, initially used for car carrying air ferry to the Channel Islands but more so to France (Le Torquet).
Within 5 years it was handling over a QUARTER OF A MILLION passengers annually, which made it one of the busiest airports in the UK. And you’re comparing that to today’s elite with Learjets and Ferraris? Nonsense.
You say you were a child of the sixties?
Who dreamt that daft phrase up? Probably a 'hippy' from the sixties! Even if you were born at the beginning year of any decade, you are still a child into the first 3 years of the following decade.
When I was apprenticed in the early sixties, I met a journalist lady on a provincial newspaper. She didn't earn a lot. She was 'normal' on 'normal' salary back then. She was mad about flying and aircraft. When Richard Branson (who has not led what can be termed by any stretch of the imagination, a ‘normal life’ ever) flew out of Oxford Airport (Kidlington - where he lived before he flogged his property and land ...to his children for tax purposes!) on his private plane to his Neckar island in the 90s, I'd gone there to meet the same lady journalist, she still worked as a local paper hack, nothing important but had managed to finance her own Piper Cherokee based at the airbase after initially saving all her spare cash for flying lessons! Normal life, eh?
She lived out the rest of her life in a modest bunglalow with her ex RAF hubby. Probably where her interest in aircraft began.
We chatted next to her plane (as Branson flew off) about her exploits flying with the RAF teams as a newspaper journo to the famine relief drops in Ethiopia. She got on so well with the crew they let her take the controls of one of the Hercules over the barren lands which, if it had ever been found out at the time, would have been curtains for the jobs of the usual crew.
What were you saying about 'normal life'?
Life is never normal, look at now!
But it is for living and you make it what it is for yourself and others.
Who remembers (went to) the 1981 Picnic of the Year weekend called 'Limited Edition 81' organised by the Marcos Club ?
Probably one of the largest alternative/specialist/kit car meetings ever, held that year at Donington.
Fantastic day with so many cars/vehicles of all sorts, and others out on the race circuit.
It's said over 200 Marcos attended.
Probably one of the largest alternative/specialist/kit car meetings ever, held that year at Donington.
Fantastic day with so many cars/vehicles of all sorts, and others out on the race circuit.
It's said over 200 Marcos attended.
dandarez said:
Ah, missed your reply.
I don't want to get into an argument, but can you tell me what 'normal life' is? I'm not getting carried away. I was there.
I agree, private Learjets surrounded by Ferraris is not 'normal' life. Everyone knows it is 'celeb' life.
However, in the 50s you could live a 'normal' life (ie: you'd have a roof over your head but probably little food in the larder because rationing had still been continuing) but by hard work many people were living as 'normal' lives as possible with food in the larder, and indeed had and continued to use those air services into the 60s. By the 70s the roll-on, roll-off sea ferries and hovercraft had virtually seen them off, which was the reason for the publicity, not that it wasn't affordable, it was a dying industry.
But prior to it disappearing, the cost was barely little more than the then new sea ferries, and had the advantage that it was far quicker. Someone above has even mentioned the cost.
The Kent airbase of Lydd was extremely busy and used not just by the well-heeled but by the public! Both my dad and his Polish pal were ex wartime RAF. Dad was in accountancy after the war, but jacked it in to go to the Cowley plant of Pressed Steel, later BMC etc, because of better wages. His Polish pal joined him later to become the only Polish worker at the time at the Cowley plant, how times change eh?
But more to the point, prior this flew for Air Ferries started by 'Taffy' Powell.
Hard to believe for you maybe, but the air ferries really were 'popular' and 'normal' then.
Comparing them that to Learjets and Ferraris is not daft, it's stupid.
Guess how many flights I mean by the word 'popular'?
Get ready to gulp out your coffee (or tea or whatever). Taffy had started his air ferries after the war and by the mid 50s the new Lydd Ferryfield, initially used for car carrying air ferry to the Channel Islands but more so to France (Le Torquet).
Within 5 years it was handling over a QUARTER OF A MILLION passengers annually, which made it one of the busiest airports in the UK. And you’re comparing that to today’s elite with Learjets and Ferraris? Nonsense.
You say you were a child of the sixties?
Who dreamt that daft phrase up? Probably a 'hippy' from the sixties! Even if you were born at the beginning year of any decade, you are still a child into the first 3 years of the following decade.
When I was apprenticed in the early sixties, I met a journalist lady on a provincial newspaper. She didn't earn a lot. She was 'normal' on 'normal' salary back then. She was mad about flying and aircraft. When Richard Branson (who has not led what can be termed by any stretch of the imagination, a ‘normal life’ ever) flew out of Oxford Airport (Kidlington - where he lived before he flogged his property and land ...to his children for tax purposes!) on his private plane to his Neckar island in the 90s, I'd gone there to meet the same lady journalist, she still worked as a local paper hack, nothing important but had managed to finance her own Piper Cherokee based at the airbase after initially saving all her spare cash for flying lessons! Normal life, eh?
She lived out the rest of her life in a modest bunglalow with her ex RAF hubby. Probably where her interest in aircraft began.
We chatted next to her plane (as Branson flew off) about her exploits flying with the RAF teams as a newspaper journo to the famine relief drops in Ethiopia. She got on so well with the crew they let her take the controls of one of the Hercules over the barren lands which, if it had ever been found out at the time, would have been curtains for the jobs of the usual crew.
What were you saying about 'normal life'?
Life is never normal, look at now!
But it is for living and you make it what it is for yourself and others.
Well, that's all very lovely, & not wanting to argue, so let's call it a debate: normal in this context would be what the majority of the population experience. I've not suggested only celebrities used the air ferries; just that it wasn't normal for the rest of the population. The photo you quote is an advert for a sports car (Reliant Scimitar) - hence the Ferrari/Learjet analogy, it's used in the same context, to advertise a lifestyle, not to represent real life. I've done the numbers thanks: the cost wasn't "slightly more", the air fare was double the sea option. It had to be, to make it even close to viable. I work in the industry, & your other numbers don't stack up, either. 250 thousand passengers, from a country of 55 million at the time, isn't a big number by any means - Heathrow at the time was handling around 14 million pa in 1968. By contrast, Heathrow today deals with twice the UK population every year, over 120 million, & when you add in the other London airports, you're nearer 200 million. I fly a couple of times a year, these days, I have flown as often as every week for work, & know many who do - but that was not the normality of the sixties & seventies, however you want to paint it.I don't want to get into an argument, but can you tell me what 'normal life' is? I'm not getting carried away. I was there.
I agree, private Learjets surrounded by Ferraris is not 'normal' life. Everyone knows it is 'celeb' life.
However, in the 50s you could live a 'normal' life (ie: you'd have a roof over your head but probably little food in the larder because rationing had still been continuing) but by hard work many people were living as 'normal' lives as possible with food in the larder, and indeed had and continued to use those air services into the 60s. By the 70s the roll-on, roll-off sea ferries and hovercraft had virtually seen them off, which was the reason for the publicity, not that it wasn't affordable, it was a dying industry.
But prior to it disappearing, the cost was barely little more than the then new sea ferries, and had the advantage that it was far quicker. Someone above has even mentioned the cost.
The Kent airbase of Lydd was extremely busy and used not just by the well-heeled but by the public! Both my dad and his Polish pal were ex wartime RAF. Dad was in accountancy after the war, but jacked it in to go to the Cowley plant of Pressed Steel, later BMC etc, because of better wages. His Polish pal joined him later to become the only Polish worker at the time at the Cowley plant, how times change eh?
But more to the point, prior this flew for Air Ferries started by 'Taffy' Powell.
Hard to believe for you maybe, but the air ferries really were 'popular' and 'normal' then.
Comparing them that to Learjets and Ferraris is not daft, it's stupid.
Guess how many flights I mean by the word 'popular'?
Get ready to gulp out your coffee (or tea or whatever). Taffy had started his air ferries after the war and by the mid 50s the new Lydd Ferryfield, initially used for car carrying air ferry to the Channel Islands but more so to France (Le Torquet).
Within 5 years it was handling over a QUARTER OF A MILLION passengers annually, which made it one of the busiest airports in the UK. And you’re comparing that to today’s elite with Learjets and Ferraris? Nonsense.
You say you were a child of the sixties?
Who dreamt that daft phrase up? Probably a 'hippy' from the sixties! Even if you were born at the beginning year of any decade, you are still a child into the first 3 years of the following decade.
When I was apprenticed in the early sixties, I met a journalist lady on a provincial newspaper. She didn't earn a lot. She was 'normal' on 'normal' salary back then. She was mad about flying and aircraft. When Richard Branson (who has not led what can be termed by any stretch of the imagination, a ‘normal life’ ever) flew out of Oxford Airport (Kidlington - where he lived before he flogged his property and land ...to his children for tax purposes!) on his private plane to his Neckar island in the 90s, I'd gone there to meet the same lady journalist, she still worked as a local paper hack, nothing important but had managed to finance her own Piper Cherokee based at the airbase after initially saving all her spare cash for flying lessons! Normal life, eh?
She lived out the rest of her life in a modest bunglalow with her ex RAF hubby. Probably where her interest in aircraft began.
We chatted next to her plane (as Branson flew off) about her exploits flying with the RAF teams as a newspaper journo to the famine relief drops in Ethiopia. She got on so well with the crew they let her take the controls of one of the Hercules over the barren lands which, if it had ever been found out at the time, would have been curtains for the jobs of the usual crew.
What were you saying about 'normal life'?
Life is never normal, look at now!
But it is for living and you make it what it is for yourself and others.
Yes, the hovercraft & ro-ro ferries saw them off, because at double the cost of the ro-ro, they weren't sustainable, there simply wasn't the market. Normality for most people then wasn't a foreign holiday, or even a holiday for some; although rationing had ended a decade or so before, there wasn't the spare cash around. I can count on one hand the number of people I went to school with who would regularly travel abroad for any reason, let alone take their car with them. The choices were often a holiday, or a car, a TV or the mortgage. I struggle to believe you haven't heard the phrase "child of the sixties" before? Yes, it means a childlike hippy personality, hence it's in inverted commas because that's when I was born, rather than the usual meaning, I think that's fairly clear. It's rather patronising to presume someone of school age can't see the world around them, remember it & learn from it - childhood is when most learning occurs, after all.
To summarise, then; "normal" for you isn't "normal" for everyone; "normal" wouldn't be chatting with Richard Branson at the local airport, then or now. A journalist who can afford to own & run a Piper Cherokee isn't "normal" either - an average journalist salary in the 1960s was between double & triple the salary of a manual worker, without including an expense account. So, from where I'm sitting, a father who's an accountant who can afford to fly his car & family to France regularly would be a fine thing, & you were very lucky to live a great life: but lots of families were still aspiring to the "owning a car" part of that scenario, including most of mine. I'm all for rose tinted specs, but with a dose of reality too, please. I think it's probably time to put this to bed, we're way off topic; your view of the world is markedly different to mine, & that won't change as a result of anything here.
mph said:
I know there's a Marcos forum but thought I'd get more views on this one.
I bet you got more than you bargained for here then? Apologies for my small part in this huge thread divergence, PLEASE STOP.FWIW I have no ownership experience to help you, but a friend has had a V8 Mantula for decades and loves it. By his own admission it is a bit primeval in places, I think he struggled with bump steer and other low volume quirks which you would not expect on an even slightly more production-quality car like a TVR of the same vintage.
They tend to be quite well looked after as they are mostly owned by tinkerers who enjoy wielding a spanner. Owners are not shy at customising them so it may take a while to find what you really want.
If I was buying one I'd be going for an older one as that is where the purest form and function is, and the safest bet for resale, or an early V8 before all the silly skirts and spoilers took over.
I always liked the Marcos GTs and Mantulas, not so keen on the Minis though.
I grew up just down the road from Westbury, Jem Marsh had a petrol station in our town and a Marcos passing through the place was a fairly common sight at the time (early 80's, no bypass).
I did hear one horror story from a friend of my dad's about someone who wanted to fit a bigger motor and sawed away too much chassis in the process. Apparently it all went wrong when the owner went over a humped back bridge at speed and the car split in two.
I still fancied one. The early ones look far prettier than the later body kitted jobs. A bit too expensive for my finances though.
I grew up just down the road from Westbury, Jem Marsh had a petrol station in our town and a Marcos passing through the place was a fairly common sight at the time (early 80's, no bypass).
I did hear one horror story from a friend of my dad's about someone who wanted to fit a bigger motor and sawed away too much chassis in the process. Apparently it all went wrong when the owner went over a humped back bridge at speed and the car split in two.
I still fancied one. The early ones look far prettier than the later body kitted jobs. A bit too expensive for my finances though.
Better late than never - after 4 years we finally finished off the rebuild/transformation of the Marcos and got it out racing again in 2020. Naturally car is again in a million pieces to try and improve if for next season
I have linked a site where the pictures of the restoration have been put up
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/kickstarte/marcos/marc...
I have linked a site where the pictures of the restoration have been put up
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/kickstarte/marcos/marc...
Wood chassis was beyond saving for a racing car - it had previously failed where it meets the subframe and after 50 years of suffering we replaced it with a new tub from Sweden
That's probably why it took so long, as when you start with a new chassis and body then nearly everything else looks tatty hence we replaced or remade nearly everything - the only thing we didn't was the axle which we had rebuilt but it was never right and after stripping it down it became obvious as the case was bent so that is being sorted at the moment
Really enjoyed doing it and very happy with the end result
That's probably why it took so long, as when you start with a new chassis and body then nearly everything else looks tatty hence we replaced or remade nearly everything - the only thing we didn't was the axle which we had rebuilt but it was never right and after stripping it down it became obvious as the case was bent so that is being sorted at the moment
Really enjoyed doing it and very happy with the end result
Kickstart said:
Wood chassis was beyond saving for a racing car - it had previously failed where it meets the subframe and after 50 years of suffering we replaced it with a new tub from Sweden
That's probably why it took so long, as when you start with a new chassis and body then nearly everything else looks tatty hence we replaced or remade nearly everything - the only thing we didn't was the axle which we had rebuilt but it was never right and after stripping it down it became obvious as the case was bent so that is being sorted at the moment
Really enjoyed doing it and very happy with the end result
Looking forward to seeing the end result. Is it now possible to get FIA papers for it so that it can race in the Spa 6 hours for eg?That's probably why it took so long, as when you start with a new chassis and body then nearly everything else looks tatty hence we replaced or remade nearly everything - the only thing we didn't was the axle which we had rebuilt but it was never right and after stripping it down it became obvious as the case was bent so that is being sorted at the moment
Really enjoyed doing it and very happy with the end result
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