Buying a house, extension has no Building Regs
Discussion
After months of searching we finally found a house for us and had an offer accepted. The house has had a first floor extension built on top of a single storey annexe. It transpires that although planning was obtained for the extension no Building Control was ever signed off.
Is this a deal breaker? The work took place 4-5 years ago so I understand enforcement action is now very unlikely but we are concerned about structural integrity/safety and the implication for us selling in the future (hopefully many years yet). No mortgage involved.
Is this a deal breaker? The work took place 4-5 years ago so I understand enforcement action is now very unlikely but we are concerned about structural integrity/safety and the implication for us selling in the future (hopefully many years yet). No mortgage involved.
How long has it been there?
We had something like this on our garage that had a room over. We found out the building regs were still outstanding when we went to sell the house. The thing that was missing was the calcs on the beam that ran over the garage. It was a total PITA to get to the beam (given it was boxed in with fire retardant plasterboard), so in the end we ended up buying indemnity insurance for our buyer.
Our buyers took the view (as did we) that as the building had been there 4 years and didn't show any signs of falling down, that this was sufficient.
If you do buy the house, and you intend to stay in it a while, by the time you come to sell, I imagine that not having docs for work done 15 years ago (or whatever) will be less of a problem.
We had something like this on our garage that had a room over. We found out the building regs were still outstanding when we went to sell the house. The thing that was missing was the calcs on the beam that ran over the garage. It was a total PITA to get to the beam (given it was boxed in with fire retardant plasterboard), so in the end we ended up buying indemnity insurance for our buyer.
Our buyers took the view (as did we) that as the building had been there 4 years and didn't show any signs of falling down, that this was sufficient.
If you do buy the house, and you intend to stay in it a while, by the time you come to sell, I imagine that not having docs for work done 15 years ago (or whatever) will be less of a problem.
It's a can of worms, starting from the foundations. Were they suitably sized to support another floor being built on top? You could have a structural survey done but all they could say is if it's falling down now, not what's going to happen in the future, unless the current owners mind the fabric being opened up & inspection trenches being dug. Are there any plans available, not that they wil tell you how it was actually built.
If it's the perfect house otherwise then go in with your eyes open & be prepared to build up a contingency fund. Will you tell the mortgage company, if you need one?
If it's the perfect house otherwise then go in with your eyes open & be prepared to build up a contingency fund. Will you tell the mortgage company, if you need one?
No mortgage required so that's not an issue. The work was done in 2016. The vendor has basically shrugged their shoulders and said they'll pay for an indemnity. From what I've read this is a waste of money as it only covers the cost of LA enforcement but that is unheard of after 12 months has elapsed.
I was hoping a full survey and an electrical inspection would show up any concerns but I'm guessing this would be quite invasive.
Anybody know what the situation would be with getting buildings insurance?
We love the house so if there is a way of making it happen we want to do it.
I was hoping a full survey and an electrical inspection would show up any concerns but I'm guessing this would be quite invasive.
Anybody know what the situation would be with getting buildings insurance?
We love the house so if there is a way of making it happen we want to do it.
Enquire at Building Regs if any inspections were done at all or they merely fsiled to do the final inspection.
Instruct a competent qualified Surveyor or engineer preferably with knowlege of this type of property and the local area to inspect the extension for structural integrity and comments regarding the original ground floor extension and whether the foundations could support the first floor extension too. Wouldn't take much to expose a small area of footings to assess.
Instruct a competent qualified Surveyor or engineer preferably with knowlege of this type of property and the local area to inspect the extension for structural integrity and comments regarding the original ground floor extension and whether the foundations could support the first floor extension too. Wouldn't take much to expose a small area of footings to assess.
av185 said:
Enquire at Building Regs if any inspections were done at all or they merely fsiled to do the final inspection.
Yup, if they engaged with BC and had initial inspections done but perhaps just forget to get it signed off it wouldnt be too much of a concern, if the whole build was done under the radar without BC oversight and they can't give you the name of the builder that did the work etc then I'd be more wary.If you contact Building Regs you might not be able to purchase an indemnity policy. However, most building regs are online now so you might be able to check online first.
We purchased a house with an extension built over the garage in the 90's with planing but regs not signed off. Rough estimate is it will cost me 20k - 30k to get through current regs.
It does put people off when selling but didn't impact either our mortgage or insurance. The mortgage company and our conveyancer are aware of the situation.
We purchased a house with an extension built over the garage in the 90's with planing but regs not signed off. Rough estimate is it will cost me 20k - 30k to get through current regs.
It does put people off when selling but didn't impact either our mortgage or insurance. The mortgage company and our conveyancer are aware of the situation.
Edited by rustyuk on Friday 5th March 12:18
Ignore the nay sayers and contact building control to find out if it’s ever had a completion inspection. As you’re not the owner they won’t be able to tell you if there are any defects or outstanding items but they will be able to confirm if the final inspection has taken place.
We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
If I was buying I’d rather it had building regs than planning. Building regs cost very little in the scheme of things, I’m always concerned if the owner hasn’t applied for them, if he’s shrugging his shoulders I’m assuming they weren’t applied for otherwise it would be an easy fix, it would just be one phone call and getting the final sign off.
smokey mow said:
Ignore the nay sayers and contact building control to find out if it’s ever had a completion inspection. As you’re not the owner they won’t be able to tell you if there are any defects or outstanding items but they will be able to confirm if the final inspection has taken place.
We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
The indemnity policy explicitly states if building control are contacted then it's invalid and it was a condition for my mortgage that the policy was valid at the time of the purchase.We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
As no mortgage is required here there may not be an impact and I'd agree the policies are a complete waste of money.
What is your actual concern?
Safety/integrity - have a look yourself. If it doesn't look like it's about to fall over, looks well maintained and its been stood for 5 years. Is there that much of a concern?
Future Sale value - you are happy buying it, other will likely be the same. Also, you could look to rectify it after purchase. But, if you are going to own it for a while, really the chances are reduced of anyone caring
Structural survey - I would question the value. Unless you're completely green, you should be able to tell if its going to fall donlwn tomorrow or not. A structural engineer would not be aloowed to drill holes or upset the buildings fabric.
Value - Ultimately, would you buy the house for the same amount if that out building collapsed tomorrow? If there or thereabouts, yes, then really, what are you concerned about?
Good luck.
Safety/integrity - have a look yourself. If it doesn't look like it's about to fall over, looks well maintained and its been stood for 5 years. Is there that much of a concern?
Future Sale value - you are happy buying it, other will likely be the same. Also, you could look to rectify it after purchase. But, if you are going to own it for a while, really the chances are reduced of anyone caring
Structural survey - I would question the value. Unless you're completely green, you should be able to tell if its going to fall donlwn tomorrow or not. A structural engineer would not be aloowed to drill holes or upset the buildings fabric.
Value - Ultimately, would you buy the house for the same amount if that out building collapsed tomorrow? If there or thereabouts, yes, then really, what are you concerned about?
Good luck.
As a qualified general practice surveyor with extensive experience I would advise you to ignore most of the ill informed posts so far and pay attention in particular to the original single storey annexe which supports the first floor extension in 2016. Especially the structure where it abuts the main house because any excess loadings from the first floor extension due to.inadequate foundations will have shown in this area by now.
As previously specified if this is of major concern to you you really need to seek proper professional advice and at the very least expose the original annexe foundations for exact spec and depth the cost of which should be relatively low bearing in mind the potential future costs and adverse affects on saleability of the property as a whole.
DO NOT rely on a builder/your mate/the local DIY 'expert/handyman/Bob round the corner lol to do this you need a Chartered structural engineer or Chartered building surveyor who know what they are doing and have proper professional indemnity.
As previously specified if this is of major concern to you you really need to seek proper professional advice and at the very least expose the original annexe foundations for exact spec and depth the cost of which should be relatively low bearing in mind the potential future costs and adverse affects on saleability of the property as a whole.
DO NOT rely on a builder/your mate/the local DIY 'expert/handyman/Bob round the corner lol to do this you need a Chartered structural engineer or Chartered building surveyor who know what they are doing and have proper professional indemnity.
Edited by av185 on Friday 5th March 14:20
rustyuk said:
smokey mow said:
Ignore the nay sayers and contact building control to find out if it’s ever had a completion inspection. As you’re not the owner they won’t be able to tell you if there are any defects or outstanding items but they will be able to confirm if the final inspection has taken place.
We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
The indemnity policy explicitly states if building control are contacted then it's invalid and it was a condition for my mortgage that the policy was valid at the time of the purchase.We have rows and rows of files on our shelves from jobs where the property owner has simply forgotten to call us for the completion inspection. If that’s the case then push the sellers to have this completed.
At 5 years enforcement action wouldn’t be possible so any indemnity policy would be a complete waste of money.
As no mortgage is required here there may not be an impact and I'd agree the policies are a complete waste of money.
The only winner here would be the solicitor who sold the policy to you (and probably already knows this) and you’d still be left with an extension that still had not formally been signed off.
Building control have far better things to do than prosecute people for every minor indiscretion. Enforcement action only happens as an absolute last resort for the most serious offences and only then when all other avenues of negotiation have been exhausted.
Edited by smokey mow on Friday 5th March 14:30
Edited by smokey mow on Friday 5th March 14:30
TCruise said:
What is your actual concern?
Safety/integrity is our main concern.The extension contains the master bedroom so we don't want to wake up one morning and find ourselves in the utility room below.Regarding contacting Buildings Control, although the indemnity thing is of no relevance to us now it may be that a future buyer's mortgage provider requires one from us. If we contact the LA now that removes the option of us providing an indemnity in the future. We could then be left with cash buyers only.
TCruise said:
Value - Ultimately, would you buy the house for the same amount if that out building collapsed tomorrow? If there or thereabouts, yes, then really, what are you concerned about?
As above, it's not an out building - it's the master bedroom and en-suite built on top of the existing utility room/downstairs WC. So no, we definitely wouldn't pay the same if it fell down!TCruise said:
Good luck.
Thanks, I think we are going to speak to a local surveyor and see what they suggest and also ask the vendor to get the electrics signed off by a competent electrician. It doesn't sound like all is lost just yet.On the subject of insurance, would this affect any claims you may make in the future on a house insurance policy?
We all know that insurance companies will do their damnedest to find a way not to payout on a claim, and an extension that was not signed off on would be a godsend for them.
Just asking.
We all know that insurance companies will do their damnedest to find a way not to payout on a claim, and an extension that was not signed off on would be a godsend for them.
Just asking.
NMNeil said:
On the subject of insurance, would this affect any claims you may make in the future on a house insurance policy?
We all know that insurance companies will do their damnedest to find a way not to payout on a claim, and an extension that was not signed off on would be a godsend for them.
Just asking.
I know of a couple locally where the ins co washed their hands on a claim after unautherised work came to light,We all know that insurance companies will do their damnedest to find a way not to payout on a claim, and an extension that was not signed off on would be a godsend for them.
Just asking.
rustyuk said:
I had a full survey cost was about £600. The surveyor was unable to tell me anything without digging a trench or removing plaster, which of course the vendor wouldn't allow.
This is always going to happen. A structural engineer, even one trained by God, won't be able to tell you a thing with any certainty without finding out the extent of the foundations/pad/footings etc. A structural survey will be largely pointless.
So you need to judge this like anything else.
How long has it been up?
Does it look in decent condition?
Does it look well-maintained?
Importantly....Do the current owners look like people who would go to sleep every night in an unsafe structure?
I think you need to be logical and treat this risk like any other.
If you're happy to spend the money, you could, after buying, dig out and find how deep those foundations are and if need be rebuild certain walls/insert steel as required.
However, thats a cost.
If it's going to be a huge huge worry, then maybe you'd never feel comfortable, in which case walk away.
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