When is a classic car a classic car?
Discussion
Dinkel, S
w what any else thinks, that is a classic. Anyone who doesn't classify that as a classic is a snob.
Would I want to own it, no.
I am I glad such cars are left in the world, yes.
But mostly I'm glad someone loves it enough to keep it in that sort of state. It clearly brings someone a lot of happiness, and that's never a bad thing.
In some ways a classic like that is even more "classic". With a car like a DB5 or a D-type there will be some owners who's main love is the value, and the hoped for profit. People of lovingly maintain and restore cars which are never likely to have a high finacial value are motivated by there love of the car and the challenge of keeping it going, not out of the hoped for return on investment. You hear stories of cars that go from one secure storage location to another, with the occasional trip to a restorer and never go near being driven by their owner.
I was asked a couple of years ago if I was interest in joining a consortium who were interested in investing in some classic cars and when I asked how we'd decide who got to drive them and where, there was an uncomprehending look "you want to drive it, it's an investment". I thought they'd talked to me because they knew I was interested in classics.
w what any else thinks, that is a classic. Anyone who doesn't classify that as a classic is a snob.Would I want to own it, no.
I am I glad such cars are left in the world, yes.
But mostly I'm glad someone loves it enough to keep it in that sort of state. It clearly brings someone a lot of happiness, and that's never a bad thing.
In some ways a classic like that is even more "classic". With a car like a DB5 or a D-type there will be some owners who's main love is the value, and the hoped for profit. People of lovingly maintain and restore cars which are never likely to have a high finacial value are motivated by there love of the car and the challenge of keeping it going, not out of the hoped for return on investment. You hear stories of cars that go from one secure storage location to another, with the occasional trip to a restorer and never go near being driven by their owner.
I was asked a couple of years ago if I was interest in joining a consortium who were interested in investing in some classic cars and when I asked how we'd decide who got to drive them and where, there was an uncomprehending look "you want to drive it, it's an investment". I thought they'd talked to me because they knew I was interested in classics.
tvrgaas said:
absolutely said:
crankedup said:
Sorry mate, its not my definition. Its always going to upset some people when they find that thier 1931 car IS NOT CLASSED as a vintage car. (My self included with my 1931 Austin 7 'Swallow' Saloon)
Who says?
is better to get round the lanes and up the hills.Edit to correct quote attribution
Edited by tvrgaas on Thursday 22 May 10:35
a8hex said:
absolutely said:
crankedup said:
Vintage cars are only classed as such if said car was built from the end of veteran era up to 1930. After 1930 they are classic cars apparently. I have considered for some while that a post vintage classification needs to be formally agreed upon and an modern classic group also. I know this won't help the OP much, sorry.
Big hairy bks! You cannot say a 1931 Phantom II is not a Vintage car!It's not a fact of 'being upset' it's a fact of understanding that a simple classification will not get it right by just grouping cars into brackets. Each car needs to be determined seperately rather than just putting an age against it.
For those coming to the Classic this year the ACO have an interesting classification. cars before 1966 can park inside the circuit but their definition is "a car in production before 1966" so for example a series 3 1974 E type is eligible because the E type went into production in 1961. There are many similar examples of course like a Moggie 1000. It would seem logical for the VSCC to accept a similar formula but as always, you can please some of the people some of the time etc. Anyway, if you like it and drive it, where's the problem. It's a classic to you, and that's what counts.
lowdrag said:
For those coming to the Classic this year the ACO have an interesting classification. cars before 1966 can park inside the circuit but their definition is "a car in production before 1966" so for example a series 3 1974 E type is eligible because the E type went into production in 1961. There are many similar examples of course like a Moggie 1000. It would seem logical for the VSCC to accept a similar formula but as always, you can please some of the people some of the time etc. Anyway, if you like it and drive it, where's the problem. It's a classic to you, and that's what counts.
but in the period that the Vscc is interested in, cars in general weren't produced for many years at a time.obviously there are exceptions with cars like the austin 7, but the difference in a mid twenties 7 and a mid thirties 7 would be enough not to let in the later cars.eccles said:
They'll also let in cars that fall outside the 1930 cut off if they are of a type that was in production before 1930. I have friends with chain gang Nash's and Lagondas that are 1931, but are let in because the type was in production before 1930 and is substantially the same vehicle.
They're PVT's and therefore eligible. A 1930 Model A Ford is vintage, therefore eligible, but a 1931 Model A is not a PVT and therefore not eligible.HTH
bigbadbikercats said:
austin said:
People that love their own cars beyond financial sense...
You know, I think that's the best definition I've seen yet --
JG
Huntsman said:
bigbadbikercats said:
austin said:
People that love their own cars beyond financial sense...
You know, I think that's the best definition I've seen yet --
JG
Huntsman said:
bigbadbikercats said:
austin said:
People that love their own cars beyond financial sense...
You know, I think that's the best definition I've seen yet --
JG
Its an interesting question and one that will never be answered as peoples perception of a classic varies so much.
Is my 1992 BMW E30 a classic? probably not but I went to the Bromley Pageant of Motoring and parked it in the one make parking area and no one turned me away. Mind you there were a lot of more modern machinery there including just off the production line MINI's etc
Im not quite sure if mine is a classic, nearly a classic or whether people just think its an old car. Probably nearly a classic, but most people just think its an out of date car.
Cars I have owned that I definatly think were classics were an 1954 Austin A30 and three Ford Mk1 Cortina's 1964, 1966 and 1966 respectivly
Is my 1992 BMW E30 a classic? probably not but I went to the Bromley Pageant of Motoring and parked it in the one make parking area and no one turned me away. Mind you there were a lot of more modern machinery there including just off the production line MINI's etc
Im not quite sure if mine is a classic, nearly a classic or whether people just think its an old car. Probably nearly a classic, but most people just think its an out of date car.
Cars I have owned that I definatly think were classics were an 1954 Austin A30 and three Ford Mk1 Cortina's 1964, 1966 and 1966 respectivly
Edited by Cotty on Friday 20th June 19:42
Defining what makes a classic car is an impossible task. Saying "It must be pre-1980" or some other sweeping statement is a nonsense because there are owners who consider their own, much more modern, vehicles to be classic.
So perhaps we are looking at the wrong side of the coin. It would be valid to argue that, just perhaps, the owner makes his car a classic through his own enthusiasm.
Consider this: Mr A, a nightclub bouncer, buys a 1983 XJ-S V12 for a few quid. It has terminal rust and a shagged engine. He wants it for the image and nothing else. He does no work to it, one day the engine dies and it goes to the scrapheap.
Miss P, a student, buys a 1983 Sierra Ghia because her dad used to have one. She has it restored and resprayed using original bits; cherishes it lovingly and keeps it indoors.
Now the Jag, from these two examples, is the bona-fide classic; whereas the Ford is just another repmobile.
However which would you rather see at a show? I'd guess at the Sierra, as it is a representation of the owner's hard work and enthusiasm. The same can be said of almost any vehicle, no matter what the badge is.
I could be spouting bks, but at the end of the day we are all car enthusiasts and should seek to be more inclusive; as a cohesive preservation movement is a powerful force. Infighting factions acheive nothing. So I haven't really been able to answer the question; but I think judging by year is far too crude a yardstick to deploy. Anything can, and will become, a classic with the right owner.
So perhaps we are looking at the wrong side of the coin. It would be valid to argue that, just perhaps, the owner makes his car a classic through his own enthusiasm.
Consider this: Mr A, a nightclub bouncer, buys a 1983 XJ-S V12 for a few quid. It has terminal rust and a shagged engine. He wants it for the image and nothing else. He does no work to it, one day the engine dies and it goes to the scrapheap.
Miss P, a student, buys a 1983 Sierra Ghia because her dad used to have one. She has it restored and resprayed using original bits; cherishes it lovingly and keeps it indoors.
Now the Jag, from these two examples, is the bona-fide classic; whereas the Ford is just another repmobile.
However which would you rather see at a show? I'd guess at the Sierra, as it is a representation of the owner's hard work and enthusiasm. The same can be said of almost any vehicle, no matter what the badge is.
I could be spouting b
ks, but at the end of the day we are all car enthusiasts and should seek to be more inclusive; as a cohesive preservation movement is a powerful force. Infighting factions acheive nothing. So I haven't really been able to answer the question; but I think judging by year is far too crude a yardstick to deploy. Anything can, and will become, a classic with the right owner. 
Does any one remember hearing the Term Durable Car Ownership ?
A term either coined or borrowed by Charles Ware of the Morris minor centre in Bath, in the mid 80's. His Term was designed to get people spending their money that would otherwise be wasted on Depreciation on more than just basic maintenance. Not a rolling restoration, because the idea was that you took a solid car and gradually upgraded it over the years.
so year 1: Remove all structural rust
year 2: Upgrade brakes, and wheels and tyres to Marina spec
Year 3: Upgrade suspension to coil overs
Year 4: 5 speed gearbox
year 5: 1300 A plus engine
Year 6: Respray
Year 7: Interior to metro spec.
Now I'm not really into Classic Cars because that assumes that you won't use them daily. I'm into 80's FWD vauxhalls, and looking for another mk2 cav. My biggest regret is selling the last one, because unfortunately I found it hard to justify spending more money than it would have been worth. It needed rear arches, sills and a respray to make it perfect, but I knew that If I paid someone to do it, my daily transport needs would rapidly devalue the work. I sold it to another enthusiast, but have deep regrets that I'd done the wrong thing. What I should have done over my 3 years of ownership is have spent more money each year, like CW suggested in 1986.
I hate the word classic, it cunjures images of pomposity and one upmanship.
A term either coined or borrowed by Charles Ware of the Morris minor centre in Bath, in the mid 80's. His Term was designed to get people spending their money that would otherwise be wasted on Depreciation on more than just basic maintenance. Not a rolling restoration, because the idea was that you took a solid car and gradually upgraded it over the years.
so year 1: Remove all structural rust
year 2: Upgrade brakes, and wheels and tyres to Marina spec
Year 3: Upgrade suspension to coil overs
Year 4: 5 speed gearbox
year 5: 1300 A plus engine
Year 6: Respray
Year 7: Interior to metro spec.
Now I'm not really into Classic Cars because that assumes that you won't use them daily. I'm into 80's FWD vauxhalls, and looking for another mk2 cav. My biggest regret is selling the last one, because unfortunately I found it hard to justify spending more money than it would have been worth. It needed rear arches, sills and a respray to make it perfect, but I knew that If I paid someone to do it, my daily transport needs would rapidly devalue the work. I sold it to another enthusiast, but have deep regrets that I'd done the wrong thing. What I should have done over my 3 years of ownership is have spent more money each year, like CW suggested in 1986.
I hate the word classic, it cunjures images of pomposity and one upmanship.
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