Daimler 250 V8 engine mods

[dave de roxby]

Hi Folks!

Does anybody know if fuel injection has ever been applied to the old Daimler V8 engines?

I fancy having a go on my old Mk2 250V8 (manual gearbox). Got a complete Rover V8 hot-wire system to play with. Just wondered if anyone has done this before? Can't seem to find anything on the net.

Cheers,

Dave

[Jalopnik]

Might be worth posting this in the drag racing section of Motorsport on this site. A couple of other places you might ask it too..

http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/

[dave de roxby]

Thanks for that!

[a8hex]

I was an Paul Roach's (RW774) yesterday. There were a few XK engined cars there that he'd done fuel injection for. There was also a Dart and an 250 there, I don't know whether he's done things for them.

[dave de roxby]

Jalopnik said:

Might be worth posting this in the drag racing section of Motorsport on this site. A couple of other places you might ask it too..

http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/

http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/

Hi, Thanks again. Seems to be some interest in this topic so can we congregate on my thread under Technical / Engines & Drivetrains

[dave de roxby]

a8hex said:

I was an Paul Roach's (RW774) yesterday. There were a few XK engined cars there that he'd done fuel injection for. There was also a Dart and an 250 there, I don't know whether he's done things for them.

Hi, Thanks - I'll check this out. Seems to be some interest in this topic so can we congregate on my other thread under Technical / Engines & Drivetrains

[RW774]

I personally would put those parts you have in the bin. Start with two ford DIS packs and dump the dissy.Use the carbs as throttle bodies and then look at injector bosses to be welded in the manifold.Then you need to construct a proper airbox to get some cool air in, submersible fuel pump and regulator, fuel lines and injector feed to be constructed.Then a special crank trigger plate designed to be mounted on the solid part of the damper . Bracket made for the sensor, complete with a decent ECU and then construct the wiring harness.The throttle pot needs to run off of one carb, so the linkage should be absolutely bang on otherwise problems will occur.We have a bracket to run the old Ford Zetec throttle pot but I believe these are presently in short supply.
You cannot achieve any benefits if it is still an auto, it will be impossible to map on the rollers, the car will be forever changing down when put under load.Manual box is the way forward. The engine needs to be in excellent condition without issue ,especially without any of the problems with crank seals or smoke.A decent rebuild with some decent compression should do it.
The bottom end of the 2.5 is very strong. The drag boys used to run standard rods and crank, putting up with some 1500BHP output. The rods are Chrome moly I believe.

[dave de roxby]

RW774 said:

I personally would put those parts you have in the bin. Start with two ford DIS packs and dump the dissy.Use the carbs as throttle bodies and then look at injector bosses to be welded in the manifold.Then you need to construct a proper airbox to get some cool air in, submersible fuel pump and regulator, fuel lines and injector feed to be constructed.Then a special crank trigger plate designed to be mounted on the solid part of the damper . Bracket made for the sensor, complete with a decent ECU and then construct the wiring harness.The throttle pot needs to run off of one carb, so the linkage should be absolutely bang on otherwise problems will occur.We have a bracket to run the old Ford Zetec throttle pot but I believe these are presently in short supply.
You cannot achieve any benefits if it is still an auto, it will be impossible to map on the rollers, the car will be forever changing down when put under load.Manual box is the way forward. The engine needs to be in excellent condition without issue ,especially without any of the problems with crank seals or smoke.A decent rebuild with some decent compression should do it.
The bottom end of the 2.5 is very strong. The drag boys used to run standard rods and crank, putting up with some 1500BHP output. The rods are Chrome moly I believe.

Thanks, all very interesting! Well, nothing is set in stone at this point but I'm trying to create a professional conversion which I could later offer as a kit, rather than just a one-off even though that might work fine. I really dont want to use the original manifold/carb arrangement in any form and, for me, a multipoint is the way to go. Also want to keep costs reasonable - but maybe you're right about the Rover parts. Just happened to have them kicking about! We'll see. The car I have is a rare manual version with a well rebuilt engine, although I'm considering putting in a more modern 5 speed unit, probably Getrag/ZF. Its good to get reports of the strength of the bottom end, even though its a bit heavy by modern standards. Thanks for your thoughts.

[RW774]

Hey , I was talking multi point too! . We did a 3 litre 6 pot Mk2 with the full kit, pushing some 200 plus brake at the wheels. A great car but who is going to spend that kind of money on a 2,4, let alone a 2.5 V8? .Both are grossly underpowered standard form. to be reflective,the V8 needs to be a 3.0 at least to pull this car with any form of gusto. With these smaller engine cars there is no subsitute for ccs and only then will the system come into its` own.
Bearing in mind how many manual cars were made(80 I think) you have a very small customer base to start with, most of which will want to keep their cars standard.In any case,to be brutal, the Diamler is worthless unfortunetly.
If you have no experience in this field, with respect, don`t waste your time unless it is just a hobby. Financially its just too small a market place to work as a business.For ourselves it is a small part of our business but equally an important one amongst the other aspects. We have been carring out these mods now for 8 years or so.

[aeropilot]

dave de roxby said:

I really dont want to use the original manifold/carb arrangement in any form and, for me, a multipoint is the way to go.

Custom made 8 port intake manifold with a Hilborn modular system

See here http://www.hilborninjection.com/product.asp?Id=430...

but that won't really fit with the following

dave de roxby said:

Also want to keep costs reasonable

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 14th September 14:58

[dave de roxby]

RW774 said:

Hey , I was talking multi point too! .If you have no experience in this field, with respect, don`t waste your time unless it is just a hobby. We have been carring out these mods now for 8 years or so.

Drinking in all you say and acknowledge you have much experience and expertise! Glad to have your contributions. Let me just put things into context. I admit I have no direct experience of designing an injection system from scratch - yet. However, I am a 65 year old retired consultant engineer with so many letters after my name my business cards had to be a foot long! Over the years, I've had more Jags than you can shake a stick at inc 3.8's, V12's, 3.6 and 4.0 litres etc. But I really like the idea of a mildly potent burbling V8 Mk2. And mine just happens to be a really original 1 owner example. So its a bit like the climbing Everest thing - Why?? Well, because its there!! But seriously, I'll give your ideas some real consideration - I'm still on a learning curve here. Nowt's gonna happen in a hurry.

[dave de roxby]

aeropilot said:

dave de roxby said:

I really dont want to use the original manifold/carb arrangement in any form and, for me, a multipoint is the way to go.

Custom made 8 port intake manifold with a Hilborn modular system

See here http://www.hilborninjection.com/product.asp?Id=430...

but that won't really fit with the following

dave de roxby said:

Also want to keep costs reasonable

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 14th September 14:58

More interesting stuff - thanks. The injector bodies are exactly what I had in mind. Just wondering if I could build by own!

[RW774]

Dave ,thanks for the response. Get some old carbs( SUs) and bore out the bodies, re sleeve back to the butterfly size and bore out for the spindle Damn cheaper than throttle bodies.Use the old manifold to keep the costs down and weld in the bosses. It will save a lot of grief on linkages etc.
You could also enjoy your retirement!

[aeropilot]

dave de roxby said:

Just wondering if I could build by own!

Can you cast alloy ?

[dave de roxby]

aeropilot said:

dave de roxby said:

Just wondering if I could build by own!

Can you cast alloy ?

I know the processes involved and could fabricate the patterns. There are small foundaries available locally which could help. I no longer have personal access to machining facilities but again have contacts with local firms.

[RW774]

You can buy the throttle bodies . Many companies already manufacture them.
I`ve used the carb idea before with great success and can get them modded down here if you get stuck.

[aeropilot]

dave de roxby said:

aeropilot said:

dave de roxby said:

Just wondering if I could build by own!

Can you cast alloy ?

I know the processes involved and could fabricate the patterns. There are small foundaries available locally which could help. I no longer have personal access to machining facilities but again have contacts with local firms.

As suggested, I'd say in the long run it would be cheaper and certainley less hassle to buy the throttle bodies and associated gubbins from Hilborn or others, and then fabricate a manifold and airbox etc yourself. At least you stand a much better chance of it working out of the box so to speak.

Steve Dennish has fabricated a lovely 'log' type manifold to mount triple Stromberg 97's onto the 4.5L Daimler Hemi in his '32 Ford roadster.

Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 15th September 08:43

[dave de roxby]

As suggested, I'd say in the long run it would be cheaper and certainley less hassle to buy the throttle bodies and associated gubbins from Hilborn or others, and then fabricate a manifold and airbox etc yourself. At least you stand a much better chance of it working out of the box so to speak

Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 15th September 08:43

[/quote]

Agree! This is the way I want to go. Will be checking prices and availability. Just hope something's within my budget! If not, it'll be back to my engine-uity again. I never give up!

[jith]

dave de roxby said:

As suggested, I'd say in the long run it would be cheaper and certainley less hassle to buy the throttle bodies and associated gubbins from Hilborn or others, and then fabricate a manifold and airbox etc yourself. At least you stand a much better chance of it working out of the box so to speak

Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 15th September 08:43

I have another suggestion for you Dave, and one that will be well within your budget.

Why don't you consider fitting K-Jetronic to your engine? This was arguably the finest injection system ever made all things considered, and certainly the most reliable.

It is absolutely ideal for a V engine as the fuel metering unit and throttle body is integral and fits neatly in between the heads a la Mercedes. Absolutely everything is available second hand from many sources.

There are minimal electronics, although if you wanted to run it very clean you could fit KE-Jet and stick a lambda sensor in the manifold to run it closed loop. This would give you excellent fuel economy and dead smooth running.

If you want to know how to tune the system there are a number of excellent books available through Amazon.

Your biggest problem would be adapting the unit to an inlet manifold; but if you have access to machinery it should be easily overcome.

Edited by jith on Tuesday 15th September 13:21

Edited by jith on Tuesday 15th September 13:22

[dave de roxby]

jith said:

dave de roxby said:

As suggested, I'd say in the long run it would be cheaper and certainley less hassle to buy the throttle bodies and associated gubbins from Hilborn or others, and then fabricate a manifold and airbox etc yourself. At least you stand a much better chance of it working out of the box so to speak

Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 15th September 08:43

I have another suggestion for you Dave, and one that will be well within your budget.

Why don't you consider fitting K-Jetronic to your engine? This was arguably the finest injection system ever made all things considered, and certainly the most reliable.

It is absolutely ideal for a V engine as the fuel metering unit and throttle body is integral and fits neatly in between the heads a la Mercedes. Absolutely everything is available second hand from many sources.

There are minimal electronics, although if you wanted to run it very clean you could fit KE-Jet and stick a lambda sensor in the manifold to run it closed loop. This would give you excellent fuel economy and dead smooth running.

If you want to know how to tune the system there are a number of excellent books available through Amazon.

Your biggest problem would be adapting the unit to an inlet manifold; but if you have access to machinery it should be easily overcome.

Edited by jith on Tuesday 15th September 13:21

Edited by jith on Tuesday 15th September 13:22

Well, now I've really got some thinking to do! Do I remember K-Jetronic on 80's Audi's and my old beloved Scirocco? Believe it had no actual electronics at all. Was a good practical system needing little or no attention. Oh dear, my head is starting to spin! Time for my brandy!!