Help Facel Vega, Facel 2
Discussion
Bob CD said:
I've always kept away from forums having seen the trouble that people have got into by arousing considerable invective, but the chances of talking Facels is just too much...
I can confirm (I think) that the mystery Facel 11 was not 432EMW, judging from the amount of dust on it at the moment (unless a son pinched it while the owner was in Malaysia). I would suggest that it was LNG44 which belongs to Freddy Page-Roberts who does live in Dorset, near Poole, I think. It would have been recogniseable by the re-positioned rear lights, but they have now been put back to standard by Simon Merrison in Billingshurst, but it is a paler blue than 432EMW and more peacock, as described and as pictured.
Always good to hear of Facels on the road; I might even take mine out to an oil well near here today, depending on the state of my mortgage. A red Facellia was reported in Midhurst at the weekend. As mine is currently off the road awaiting its rebuilt carburettor, I suspect it must have been Diana Housego-Woolgar's. Any more Facel sightings?
Hi Bob,nice to see you are still a and Kicking.You could have said also that LGN 44 could have been recognised by an air speed indicator,Delage badges,and an owner driver with tennis balls stuffed down his shorts ! you know who I mean.Diana's facellia is just back on the road after an oilseal replacement on the rear axle so most likely was near midhurst.The Red Facel II on the HWM list is of course the Ringo mobile.As it was the only Facel II of that specification sold in the UK. I can confirm (I think) that the mystery Facel 11 was not 432EMW, judging from the amount of dust on it at the moment (unless a son pinched it while the owner was in Malaysia). I would suggest that it was LNG44 which belongs to Freddy Page-Roberts who does live in Dorset, near Poole, I think. It would have been recogniseable by the re-positioned rear lights, but they have now been put back to standard by Simon Merrison in Billingshurst, but it is a paler blue than 432EMW and more peacock, as described and as pictured.
Always good to hear of Facels on the road; I might even take mine out to an oil well near here today, depending on the state of my mortgage. A red Facellia was reported in Midhurst at the weekend. As mine is currently off the road awaiting its rebuilt carburettor, I suspect it must have been Diana Housego-Woolgar's. Any more Facel sightings?
d.wilde said:
Here is the listing of the Facel II sold in UK, it's from 1982 so many things have changed...
Does anyone know if that's 'the' Charlie Drake (original owner of A 158), as in 'a boomerang and its inability to come back'?Thanks must go to the owners for keeping these gorgeous cars on the road.
davep said:
Does anyone know if that's 'the' Charlie Drake (original owner of A 158), as in 'a boomerang and its inability to come back'?
Thanks must go to the owners for keeping these gorgeous cars on the road.
It is indeed "the" Charlie Drake.One among very many well known and mechanically inept people to have bought new facels.Lionel bart,Ringo Starr being two other owners of Facel IIsThanks must go to the owners for keeping these gorgeous cars on the road.
facelman said:
It is indeed "the" Charlie Drake.One among very many well known and mechanically inept people to have bought new facels.
Thanks for that facelman. But I was under the impression Charlie was pretty good with the 'spanners'. 
Off topic - what a small world, one of our favourite hotels is La Pyramide à Vienne. Haven't seen any Facels in that area though.
davep said:
Thanks for that facelman. But I was under the impression Charlie was pretty good with the 'spanners'.
Off topic - what a small world, one of our favourite hotels is La Pyramide à Vienne. Haven't seen any Facels in that area though.
I may then have been unfair to Charlie ! Most facel owners though would not have understood the difference between a well designed car like the Aston Martin and the overwhelming "bling" of the facel.I have owned five Facel IIs,including the Lionel Bart car A101.With the twenty odd small facels and the odd HK500 I must have had nearly thirty Facels.Where is this hotel you mention? I am near Poitiers.There are three facels in my village,and several in the Poitiers area,including one of the contributors to this thread Wilde who has a Facel II.cheers John Off topic - what a small world, one of our favourite hotels is La Pyramide à Vienne. Haven't seen any Facels in that area though.
facelman said:
I may then have been unfair to Charlie ! Most facel owners though would not have understood the difference between a well designed car like the Aston Martin and the overwhelming "bling" of the facel.I have owned five Facel IIs,including the Lionel Bart car A101.With the twenty odd small facels and the odd HK500 I must have had nearly thirty Facels.Where is this hotel you mention? I am near Poitiers.There are three facels in my village,and several in the Poitiers area,including one of the contributors to this thread Wilde who has a Facel II.cheers John
My apologies! I saw 'vienne' in your profile and assumed you were based in the town of Vienne, not the département. No wonder I haven't seen any Facels. It's the sort of gaff Charlie would have made.Thirty Facels, wow! Interesting your comparison with Aston Martin, how would you summarise your Facel ownership and experience?
davep said:
My apologies! I saw 'vienne' in your profile and assumed you were based in the town of Vienne, not the département. No wonder I haven't seen any Facels. It's the sort of gaff Charlie would have made.
Thirty Facels, wow! Interesting your comparison with Aston Martin, how would you summarise your Facel ownership and experience?
My experiences are somewhat different to other peoples.I bought the remains of the facel company spares/drawings and tooling in 1981.I packed/loaded and shipped 150 tons of parts to the UK over a six month period.My business for many years was the supply of facel parts to owners all around the world.My personal preference is for small cars.I am a driver not a poser.I have always considered the small facels quite remarkable in terms of their roadholding and handling.They are in my opinion far superior to other sports cars of the period,MG/Austin Healey etc.With the exception of the Lotus Elan which could run rings around everything else anyway.The large cars are the reverse.The Facel company were coachbuilders,they had no engineering experience or facility.The Vega was an extrapolation of the Ford Comete,and had suspension and chassis developed from that car.The comete was designed with about 60 BHP.The chassis rapidly became overstretched with the 383 chrysler and bigger motors.The same thing could be said of the brakes and steering.Woefully inadaquate by 1959 with over 300 BHP under the bonnet.My personal favorite is the facel 6.So much better then the car which provided the engine !Thirty Facels, wow! Interesting your comparison with Aston Martin, how would you summarise your Facel ownership and experience?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting reading John, thank you for that personal insight.
I've also been reading the Facel Vega website; and, funnily enough, Charlie Drake rolled his Facel 2 at some point, which required the import of a large shipment of 'spares' from Paris. Apparently, he then moved onto Aston Martins.
À bientôt
Dave
Interesting reading John, thank you for that personal insight.
I've also been reading the Facel Vega website; and, funnily enough, Charlie Drake rolled his Facel 2 at some point, which required the import of a large shipment of 'spares' from Paris. Apparently, he then moved onto Aston Martins.
À bientôt
Dave
davep said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting reading John, thank you for that personal insight.
I've also been reading the Facel Vega website; and, funnily enough, Charlie Drake rolled his Facel 2 at some point, which required the import of a large shipment of 'spares' from Paris. Apparently, he then moved onto Aston Martins.
À bientôt
Dave
Charlie Drake was not the only english facel owner who rolled their facel...."no previous experience necessary" The concessionaires must have torn their hair out with a body swop job.Every piece of stainless steel trim was cut specially to fit each car......I cannot think of a worse car to do a complete rebuild.They clearly were never intended to come apart ever !Interesting reading John, thank you for that personal insight.
I've also been reading the Facel Vega website; and, funnily enough, Charlie Drake rolled his Facel 2 at some point, which required the import of a large shipment of 'spares' from Paris. Apparently, he then moved onto Aston Martins.
À bientôt
Dave
Edited by facelman on Wednesday 27th April 11:18
Wow,
I would like to thank everybody for their participation in this thread. It's quite amazing to think that you can make a post about something as unusual as Facel Vega on a forum like Pistonheads and get an answer. It would seem that the Facel I spotted only lives a couple of miles from me? If anybody can put the owner in touch with me, it would be great to have a look at his car perhaps over a beer/glass of wine? This means that there are at least 3 running Facels in Dorset.
OK guys what I would really like to do is find out how many ROAD LEGAL, RUNNING Facel 11's and HK 500's there are in the UK? I have the list above to which I can add my two HK500's. I am aware of a few more cars through the club that I will try and add later. Great to talk Facel?
I would like to thank everybody for their participation in this thread. It's quite amazing to think that you can make a post about something as unusual as Facel Vega on a forum like Pistonheads and get an answer. It would seem that the Facel I spotted only lives a couple of miles from me? If anybody can put the owner in touch with me, it would be great to have a look at his car perhaps over a beer/glass of wine? This means that there are at least 3 running Facels in Dorset.
OK guys what I would really like to do is find out how many ROAD LEGAL, RUNNING Facel 11's and HK 500's there are in the UK? I have the list above to which I can add my two HK500's. I am aware of a few more cars through the club that I will try and add later. Great to talk Facel?
I have been following this topic with interest and wondered how long it would be before the Charlie Drake Facel 2 would surface.
When he sold it in about 1966 it was bought by The Hon. Richard Wrottesley, with whom I was staying at the time in his flat in Little St. James's Street, via a dealer called Ken Shepard from Elstree or Boreham Wood.
Richards grandmother (Mrs Wingfield-Stratford) had given him the necessary funds to celebrate the return of his driving licence, he having been disqualified from driving.
Charlie Drake retained the reg. no. CD 455 and it was re registered as PE 4629.
The car was in remarkably good condition and did not bear any evidence of previous accident damage (until I unfortunately rear-ended a Mini in Park Lane in the wet!). I wonder if it might not have been his earlier car (an HK500) that was rolled.
The Facel 2 was automatic, had Borani wire wheels and side exhausts had been fitted prior to the purchase by Richard.
The other notable modification was that the driver's seat had been raised on blocks by about 2 inches because Charlie Drake was only 5ft. 1 inches tall and needed a more commanding driving position.
As far as I remember, the roof was finished in black and the body was a wonderful metallic red (torch red?) with black interior. There are some photographs of the car, whilst in Charlie Drakes ownership, on the French website mentioned here by an earlier contributor
I don't know what happened to the car after it left Richard but it would appear to be in France now, according to the earlier post.
Richard was a true PH. He competed at Le Mans twice, once in an Elva with (I think) Tony Lanfranchi for the Anglian Racing Partnership (1965) and had bought a D Type Jaguar in 1961 (XKD 606) which he crashed heavily at Silverstone in 1962.
This was the car that won Le Mans in 1957 driven by Ivor Bueb and Ron Flockhart. It went on to be owned by Pierre Bardinon, Victor Gauntlett and others. It is now (I believe) owned by Louwmans of the Dutch Motor Museum and is in the care of Robert Brooks.
When he sold it in about 1966 it was bought by The Hon. Richard Wrottesley, with whom I was staying at the time in his flat in Little St. James's Street, via a dealer called Ken Shepard from Elstree or Boreham Wood.
Richards grandmother (Mrs Wingfield-Stratford) had given him the necessary funds to celebrate the return of his driving licence, he having been disqualified from driving.
Charlie Drake retained the reg. no. CD 455 and it was re registered as PE 4629.
The car was in remarkably good condition and did not bear any evidence of previous accident damage (until I unfortunately rear-ended a Mini in Park Lane in the wet!). I wonder if it might not have been his earlier car (an HK500) that was rolled.
The Facel 2 was automatic, had Borani wire wheels and side exhausts had been fitted prior to the purchase by Richard.
The other notable modification was that the driver's seat had been raised on blocks by about 2 inches because Charlie Drake was only 5ft. 1 inches tall and needed a more commanding driving position.
As far as I remember, the roof was finished in black and the body was a wonderful metallic red (torch red?) with black interior. There are some photographs of the car, whilst in Charlie Drakes ownership, on the French website mentioned here by an earlier contributor
I don't know what happened to the car after it left Richard but it would appear to be in France now, according to the earlier post.
Richard was a true PH. He competed at Le Mans twice, once in an Elva with (I think) Tony Lanfranchi for the Anglian Racing Partnership (1965) and had bought a D Type Jaguar in 1961 (XKD 606) which he crashed heavily at Silverstone in 1962.
This was the car that won Le Mans in 1957 driven by Ivor Bueb and Ron Flockhart. It went on to be owned by Pierre Bardinon, Victor Gauntlett and others. It is now (I believe) owned by Louwmans of the Dutch Motor Museum and is in the care of Robert Brooks.
Edited by Fanelli on Wednesday 27th April 18:05
Wonderful to read so much Facel input! I have a few messages for individuals following their contributions.
1.d.wilde. Thanks for all your 'blue car' pics. As you are aware, 432 EMW is mine, on the road, driven yesterday. The one I didn't recognise was F64MAN, but perhaps you're not allowed to say who such a car belongs to...
Facelvega and facelman might also like to note that in the pic of LNG44, you can see that there are no 'turrets' on the front bumper. (Not very technical term, maybe facelman has a better one.) Whether the car now has those turrets I'm not sure. I know that Freddy wanted to try and put the car back to standard, in spite of its idiosyncracies.
Thanks also, d.wilde, for the list of owners. I have several 'lists' and I'm trying to make them all into one document; not sure how I can print off that one.
Thanks also for the pics of Rob with his car. He was such a great character. We miss him in F1; hardly a race goes by without someone telling a Rob story, attempting his languid voice.
And thanks, finally, for the lovely pic of your own car in such a beautiful setting. I hope that's yours too!
2. Motown Junk. Well, that makes three Facels out and about recently. I think that car belongs to a Mr Green of Lymington or thereabouts. It was restored about eight years ago or so. Its registration is HK K1D (geddit?)
3. facelman. Aha, so this is where you lurk. Glad to hear that you're still and alive and kicking too! How amazing to have so many local Facels. We must come and visit sometime.
4. DaveP As Fanelli mentions, Charlie Drake was somewhat short in stature and prior to the elevation of his seat there were, apparently, several minor brushes with the scenery as he couldn't see the outer reaches of his car.
5. Facelvega. I can, as above, assure you that 432EMW is on the road and used! Incidently, there are several associations with Facel 11s and Dorset in the past, particularly due to Sherborne School. The Vandervell mentioned as an owner should be Tony Vandervell whose son, Colin, was at Sherborne, as was Rob Walker's son, Robbie. There was a great story about how Colin Vandervell told all his schoolmates how his father had the first Mercedes 300SL in the UK and then in swept Rob in his... Probably rubbish but it makes a good tale.
6. Fanelli. Great to hear more on Richard Wrottesly. I have a friend called Colin Adams who, for some reason, used to borrow and race some of RW's cars. The Elva certainly rings more than a bell because it was in that car, as a teenaged passenger wedged in the back (it was a rare coupe) that I first travelled at 100mph, on the Halnaker straight near Goodwood. I remember Colin also used his Daimler SP250.
It's great to hear more and more stories about Facels; I'm building up a dossier on the owners of Facel 11s, Excellences and Facellias.
That's enough for now. Keep it coming!
1.d.wilde. Thanks for all your 'blue car' pics. As you are aware, 432 EMW is mine, on the road, driven yesterday. The one I didn't recognise was F64MAN, but perhaps you're not allowed to say who such a car belongs to...
Facelvega and facelman might also like to note that in the pic of LNG44, you can see that there are no 'turrets' on the front bumper. (Not very technical term, maybe facelman has a better one.) Whether the car now has those turrets I'm not sure. I know that Freddy wanted to try and put the car back to standard, in spite of its idiosyncracies.
Thanks also, d.wilde, for the list of owners. I have several 'lists' and I'm trying to make them all into one document; not sure how I can print off that one.
Thanks also for the pics of Rob with his car. He was such a great character. We miss him in F1; hardly a race goes by without someone telling a Rob story, attempting his languid voice.
And thanks, finally, for the lovely pic of your own car in such a beautiful setting. I hope that's yours too!
2. Motown Junk. Well, that makes three Facels out and about recently. I think that car belongs to a Mr Green of Lymington or thereabouts. It was restored about eight years ago or so. Its registration is HK K1D (geddit?)
3. facelman. Aha, so this is where you lurk. Glad to hear that you're still and alive and kicking too! How amazing to have so many local Facels. We must come and visit sometime.
4. DaveP As Fanelli mentions, Charlie Drake was somewhat short in stature and prior to the elevation of his seat there were, apparently, several minor brushes with the scenery as he couldn't see the outer reaches of his car.
5. Facelvega. I can, as above, assure you that 432EMW is on the road and used! Incidently, there are several associations with Facel 11s and Dorset in the past, particularly due to Sherborne School. The Vandervell mentioned as an owner should be Tony Vandervell whose son, Colin, was at Sherborne, as was Rob Walker's son, Robbie. There was a great story about how Colin Vandervell told all his schoolmates how his father had the first Mercedes 300SL in the UK and then in swept Rob in his... Probably rubbish but it makes a good tale.
6. Fanelli. Great to hear more on Richard Wrottesly. I have a friend called Colin Adams who, for some reason, used to borrow and race some of RW's cars. The Elva certainly rings more than a bell because it was in that car, as a teenaged passenger wedged in the back (it was a rare coupe) that I first travelled at 100mph, on the Halnaker straight near Goodwood. I remember Colin also used his Daimler SP250.
It's great to hear more and more stories about Facels; I'm building up a dossier on the owners of Facel 11s, Excellences and Facellias.
That's enough for now. Keep it coming!
Here's our poor HK500 after our building caught fire 3 years ago, however when we dusted it off it started and we drove it out. We lost 10 cars in the fire in total.
We went on to sell it at auction:
http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/17260/lot/415/#
We went on to sell it at auction:
http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/17260/lot/415/#
Maybe not quite what you are looking for, but then I am not at all knowledgeable about the make, though I like them.
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/view-classic-c...
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/view-classic-c...
Fanelli said:
I have been following this topic with interest and wondered how long it would be before the Charlie Drake Facel 2 would surface.
When he sold it in about 1966 it was bought by The Hon. Richard Wrottesley, with whom I was staying at the time in his flat in Little St. James's Street, via a dealer called Ken Shepard from Elstree or Boreham Wood.
Richards grandmother (Mrs Wingfield-Stratford) had given him the necessary funds to celebrate the return of his driving licence, he having been disqualified from driving.
Charlie Drake retained the reg. no. CD 455 and it was re registered as PE 4629.
The car was in remarkably good condition and did not bear any evidence of previous accident damage (until I unfortunately rear-ended a Mini in Park Lane in the wet!). I wonder if it might not have been his earlier car (an HK500) that was rolled.
The Facel 2 was automatic, had Borani wire wheels and side exhausts had been fitted prior to the purchase by Richard.
The other notable modification was that the driver's seat had been raised on blocks by about 2 inches because Charlie Drake was only 5ft. 1 inches tall and needed a more commanding driving position.
As far as I remember, the roof was finished in black and the body was a wonderful metallic red (torch red?) with black interior. There are some photographs of the car, whilst in Charlie Drakes ownership, on the French website mentioned here by an earlier contributor
I don't know what happened to the car after it left Richard but it would appear to be in France now, according to the earlier post.
Richard was a true PH. He competed at Le Mans twice, once in an Elva with (I think) Tony Lanfranchi for the Anglian Racing Partnership (1965) and had bought a D Type Jaguar in 1961 (XKD 606) which he crashed heavily at Silverstone in 1962.
This was the car that won Le Mans in 1957 driven by Ivor Bueb and Ron Flockhart. It went on to be owned by Pierre Bardinon, Victor Gauntlett and others. It is now (I believe) owned by Louwmans of the Dutch Motor Museum and is in the care of Robert Brooks.
Could this "fanelli" be a pseudo for Victoria de las Cascades ? If so then Bob need look no further for a source for a list of every facel known to man [or woman].When he sold it in about 1966 it was bought by The Hon. Richard Wrottesley, with whom I was staying at the time in his flat in Little St. James's Street, via a dealer called Ken Shepard from Elstree or Boreham Wood.
Richards grandmother (Mrs Wingfield-Stratford) had given him the necessary funds to celebrate the return of his driving licence, he having been disqualified from driving.
Charlie Drake retained the reg. no. CD 455 and it was re registered as PE 4629.
The car was in remarkably good condition and did not bear any evidence of previous accident damage (until I unfortunately rear-ended a Mini in Park Lane in the wet!). I wonder if it might not have been his earlier car (an HK500) that was rolled.
The Facel 2 was automatic, had Borani wire wheels and side exhausts had been fitted prior to the purchase by Richard.
The other notable modification was that the driver's seat had been raised on blocks by about 2 inches because Charlie Drake was only 5ft. 1 inches tall and needed a more commanding driving position.
As far as I remember, the roof was finished in black and the body was a wonderful metallic red (torch red?) with black interior. There are some photographs of the car, whilst in Charlie Drakes ownership, on the French website mentioned here by an earlier contributor
I don't know what happened to the car after it left Richard but it would appear to be in France now, according to the earlier post.
Richard was a true PH. He competed at Le Mans twice, once in an Elva with (I think) Tony Lanfranchi for the Anglian Racing Partnership (1965) and had bought a D Type Jaguar in 1961 (XKD 606) which he crashed heavily at Silverstone in 1962.
This was the car that won Le Mans in 1957 driven by Ivor Bueb and Ron Flockhart. It went on to be owned by Pierre Bardinon, Victor Gauntlett and others. It is now (I believe) owned by Louwmans of the Dutch Motor Museum and is in the care of Robert Brooks.
Edited by Fanelli on Wednesday 27th April 18:05
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