Help Facel Vega, Facel 2

Author
Discussion

d.wilde

103 posts

201 months

Thursday 5th December 2013
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Can we have a clue about its new destination ? UK, USA, Middle East ?

5mphuk

6 posts

207 months

Friday 6th December 2013
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http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/509/
There is a 1961 Facellia Decapotable for sale in April by auction in France for around £40k

dinkel

26,887 posts

257 months

Friday 6th December 2013
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justin-banks said:
Hi All,
I dont actually believe the Ringo ownership added much to the value, if anything.
I sincerely doubt that to bits. Almost any article - or headline for that matter - started with a Ringo-mention.

The famous Rod Stewart Miura is cared for and stands out for the same reason: fame sells.

Rower

1,378 posts

265 months

Friday 6th December 2013
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dinkel said:
justin-banks said:
Hi All,
I dont actually believe the Ringo ownership added much to the value, if anything.
I sincerely doubt that to bits. Almost any article - or headline for that matter - started with a Ringo-mention.

The famous Rod Stewart Miura is cared for and stands out for the same reason: fame sells.
Fair point but do you think that either of the cars mentioned here would not have sold and at those prices ?

If we were looking at something mundane then the famous 'tag' may well have some financial benefit such as the Mini owned by Diana POW .

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Friday 6th December 2013
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Tom hk said:
Thank you for very informative reply John , The reason I thought HWM modified the gearboxes was because I am sure I read somewhere that Fred Hobs did start to modify the gears where they were prone to breaking and eventually PAM supplied them with the upgraded gears I will have to read the book again sometime. Dukes of hazard/ Smokey and the bandit driving style is not my thing ! So when my car is eventually on the road I will be sympathetic to its limitations.Have you ever fitted a more stronger box to a facel or converted one to hydraulic clutch operation ? Also did the rear axles ever have power lock ltd slip diffs fitted.
I see Justin needs to be congratulated on the sale of his facel 2 at Bonhams seems like a very realistic if not cheap price for the car when compared to the unbelievable prices of some of the vehicles £1.6 million plus buyers premium for a converted car transporter ! David Churchill of Autoinvest writes very interesting and amusing market comments on his company's website about these high prices .
Tom .hk
The manual cars were often fitted with limslip.You need to look at the bolts holding the steel cover on the diff.If two of them have metal tags under them then it is a limslip.If there is a tag with PL stamped on it then it is a limslip.The other tag being the ratio.I have a new original limslip back axle for HK 500/ Facel II in stock incidentally if anyone needs it.A kit is available to fit a ZF five speed gearbox to the V8 Facels.A useful thing to remember should the original fail.

dinkel

26,887 posts

257 months

Friday 6th December 2013
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It's good for media.

So, it's good for promotion.

Which helps sales.

To get the right pricetag.

Yeah, I think two cars will end up with different value if one once had a famous arse in.

Tom hk

8 posts

128 months

Saturday 7th December 2013
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Thank you John I will check the real axle to see if it has those tags on it.
As for Justin's Facel 2 i still think it was a fair price for the vehicle I suppose the best thing to do would be to ask the auctioneer if the final bidder had long black hair a mustafa moustache and was wearing a flower patterned coat humming the tune to yellow submarine carrying his prized signed first edition of Thomas the tank engine story book if so we can all assume that there was a ringo effect !
Tom.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Friday 28th March 2014
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http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1962-facel-vega... , This is an ex Richard Stevens car.I don't recall him ever driving it.I love the auctioneers "relatively simple restoration" !! He has evidently never restored a Facel Vega.So here is a completely dismantled car.Needing everything,including all new interior,Not impossible to do,but previous experience essential if it is to be at all economic.Also despite what he says in his blurb,I believe that most UK HK500's were in fact manual gearbox and not autos.So the right hand drive and manual being very rare is not quite accurate.I wonder if the 50 odd unique pieces of stainless steel are present ? Ho hum.£30.000.....and our beautiful shiny restored car is around £70.000 There is something wrong here.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
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A Facellia arrived on my ramp yesterday ex california.

blueb10

172 posts

133 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
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Do tell more, you tease.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
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blueb10 said:
Do tell more, you tease.
Sorry i didn't realise anyone was there ! What do you want to know ? The last owner in america started to make a V8 hotrod out of it.Fortunately they stopped before doing too much damage.The decision now is whether to fit a Volvo or Austin-Healey or 4M5 engine.decisions Decisions.One saving grace is that there is very little rust.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
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The Crack Fox said:
How long to bring that back to its former glory? It's a fantastic machine!
As usual it depends on the customer and what he wants to do.It is always a question of money.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Monday 31st March 2014
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facelman said:
Sorry i didn't realise anyone was there ! What do you want to know ? The last owner in america started to make a V8 hotrod out of it.Fortunately they stopped before doing too much damage.The decision now is whether to fit a Volvo or Austin-Healey or 4M5 engine.decisions Decisions.One saving grace is that there is very little rust.
I am sorry,I should have said "Ratrod" apparently the bodywork and paintwork is exactly what the previous owner wanted ! He had no plans to repaint the car.He was only going to do the V8 conversion and the other mechanicals and use the car as is.It may have had a narrow escape then.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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The Crack Fox said:
I don't think it is a question of money. I think it is a question of braveryhehe

Please post more pics when you have them, these cars are beautiful.
Bravery does not come in to it.You can buy a restored facel for "£/$ X " and not have the hassle of getting it done,or you can buy an unrestored car and either pay someone to do what you want to it,or do it yourself.Where does bravery come into that ?

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Tuesday 1st April 2014
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facelman said:
Bravery does not come in to it. ...or you can buy an unrestored car and either pay someone to do what you want to it,or do it yourself.Where does bravery come into that ?
That reminds me of the definition of an optimist:
Optimist: Someone who thinks they can afford to own an Aston.

rolymo

595 posts

198 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
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Facel-Vega Facelia :- what to do ?
The original motor gave me headaches but fortunately I was lucky to own a dynamometer and a fully equipped machine shop which took care of those details, my other half had a glorious time with the car for quite a long time with no difficulties. However in today’s world the dodgy reputation of the Facel Twin-cam may well detract from the desire to own this model ,as regards the Volvo motor it is reliable ,has longevity , not too sophisticated to be beyond the scope of being owner maintained but adds very little to the allure/mystique of this rare jewel of a car.
In my opinion an Austin -Healey would be a bit of boat anchor, not in keeping with the nature of the little Vega with so much weight up front and a huge transmission to house.
A very tidy installation could well be a modern Ford 4cyl twin-cam (Zietech )/ trans Manual/auto on twin two barrel carbs [dellauto/weber]
Now if you really want to [up the anti ] and go all super sensational , make the car a gem to perceive
What about a Lotus 4 cyl 2.2 T/cam connected to a ZL 5 speed transmission with a little bit of fiddling should give a comfortable 200 bhp (flywheel) and a plentiful supply of parts and service capability.
Tried this out with an MGA coupe a couple of years back, it was a phenomenal performer
The end result would be roughly equivalent to Healey/Jensen which is quite desirable
Photo :- Lotus mounted in an MGA Coupe

williamp

19,215 posts

272 months

Wednesday 2nd April 2014
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Personally ud like to keep it standard, but if you are looking for another engine, and I assume a V8 doesnt fit, would the lancia V4 fit? Very nic engine, compact, unusual etc etc

Or the PRV V6 from the renault alpine, etc?

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
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rolymo said:
Facel-Vega Facelia :- what to do ?
The original motor gave me headaches but fortunately I was lucky to own a dynamometer and a fully equipped machine shop which took care of those details, my other half had a glorious time with the car for quite a long time with no difficulties. However in today’s world the dodgy reputation of the Facel Twin-cam may well detract from the desire to own this model ,as regards the Volvo motor it is reliable ,has longevity , not too sophisticated to be beyond the scope of being owner maintained but adds very little to the allure/mystique of this rare jewel of a car.
In my opinion an Austin -Healey would be a bit of boat anchor, not in keeping with the nature of the little Vega with so much weight up front and a huge transmission to house.
A very tidy installation could well be a modern Ford 4cyl twin-cam (Zietech )/ trans Manual/auto on twin two barrel carbs [dellauto/weber]
Now if you really want to [up the anti ] and go all super sensational , make the car a gem to perceive
What about a Lotus 4 cyl 2.2 T/cam connected to a ZL 5 speed transmission with a little bit of fiddling should give a comfortable 200 bhp (flywheel) and a plentiful supply of parts and service capability.
Tried this out with an MGA coupe a couple of years back, it was a phenomenal performer
The end result would be roughly equivalent to Healey/Jensen which is quite desirable
Photo :- Lotus mounted in an MGA Coupe
What a terrible thing to do with a poor MGA.Are you sure that you are in Northants and not in america by any chance? The Lotus engine was an awful thing.The MGA dosen't need an upgrade but the five bearing 1800 cc MGB is the obvious choice.The Rover V8 fits quite well,I did two of these.The Lancia was a great engine but too rare to consider today.PRV [ or PERV as we used to call them ] ? no thanks lets get back to the past...The Volvo 3 litre 6 cylinder is a possible choice.150 BHP and maybe lighter than the AH. One day I am sure that new blocks will be made for the Facellia PAM engine,and along with my five plain bearing camshafts and a better intake manifold people will start converting these lovely cars back to "original" In the meanwhile I must get back to work on the 4M5 engine for my Facel III.

facelman

238 posts

183 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
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Or I could fit one of my new Bugatti engines......., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhDLKf1crHA&fe...

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Friday 4th April 2014
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facelman said:
Or I could fit one of my new Bugatti engines......., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhDLKf1crHA&fe...
Cool bow
But what ever engine you choose I don't think you'll get a very good power to weight ratio with a pallet truck.