Help Facel Vega, Facel 2
Discussion
Gentlemen,
I´d rather be interested in two or three minor pieces from the old HK chassis. Not being based in the UK, purchase of the complete chassis was just not practicable. Sure enough nobody will try to build a complete car based on this one. Perhaps the lucky buyer will step forward to discuss?
Regards,
sleevevalve
I´d rather be interested in two or three minor pieces from the old HK chassis. Not being based in the UK, purchase of the complete chassis was just not practicable. Sure enough nobody will try to build a complete car based on this one. Perhaps the lucky buyer will step forward to discuss?
Regards,
sleevevalve
I can appreciate if someone is unable to restore their facel and have to employ the services of a specilist restorer then it can be costly ,especially if one has to purchase facel specific parts rather than the many parts they share with other vehicle makes.according to,the facel clue historian (not sure what other club Bob is referring to) there was 490 HK500 cars made of which 98 came to this country .24 were thought to have been scrapped until the ebay chassis resurfaced ,(I also know of a similar state chassis which the owner is accumilating the parts to build it up as a complete car to restore) a further 31 have been exported or untraced.
What the ebay purchaser paid was under £2000 for the chassis etc.if we compare the last two HK500 restoration projects that have been sold at auction by siverstone suctions the first was a matching numbers dismantled restoration project that had been started a long long time ago and not finished, it was hard to tell if it was complete but it needed fully restoring ,it sold for £64000. The second was a very compromised car in terms of originality as it started out as a automatic but had the engine gearbox and rear axle of manual car fitted to it ,restoration had been started and it was partially dismantled but needed a comprehensive restoration ,this car sold for £46000 .
I am quite sure if somene set out with the difference in monetary terms of £44000 between the ebay chassis and the cheaper HK restoration project they could accumalate enough parts to create a reasonably complete restoration project.
Personally I hope whoever purchased it will have the vision and perseverance to try and achieve this rather than use it for bits.
Regards.Tom.
What the ebay purchaser paid was under £2000 for the chassis etc.if we compare the last two HK500 restoration projects that have been sold at auction by siverstone suctions the first was a matching numbers dismantled restoration project that had been started a long long time ago and not finished, it was hard to tell if it was complete but it needed fully restoring ,it sold for £64000. The second was a very compromised car in terms of originality as it started out as a automatic but had the engine gearbox and rear axle of manual car fitted to it ,restoration had been started and it was partially dismantled but needed a comprehensive restoration ,this car sold for £46000 .
I am quite sure if somene set out with the difference in monetary terms of £44000 between the ebay chassis and the cheaper HK restoration project they could accumalate enough parts to create a reasonably complete restoration project.
Personally I hope whoever purchased it will have the vision and perseverance to try and achieve this rather than use it for bits.
Regards.Tom.
Sure enough, rebuilding a complete car from just a few barebones is common with expensive exotica of the 300SL Gullwing calibre, and this even is economically viable. Facel prices are on the rise but, as Bob has pointed out, finding all the bits & pieces for a correct rebuild is a daunting task. Especially sheet metal and trim parts are hard to find, and frighteningly expensive if in serviceable condition. (By the way – I have a spare set of HK door handles available). As much as I´d like to see an HK500 saved from being scrapped: it needs lots of patience and determination (and total indifference regarding additional grey hair) to see this project through.
Regards
sleevevalve
sleevevalve, I have made contact with the seller who tells me that the car has been bought by someone in Germany. Quite reasonably, he won't divulge the person's name but has asked them to make contact with me. If they do so, I will send you a personal message, but it wouldn't surprise if it is one of the two major restorers in Germany building up a stock of parts. Or maybe they have the parts to make up the whole car?
Just reviving this thread because I spotted one coming up for auction:-
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22205/lot/153/
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22205/lot/153/
Thanks for the thread Revival, Lowdrag, but it's like 19 buses, you get one Facel come along and you haven't seen one in years and then you get another five.
Bonhams in Scottsdale have a Facel 11 coming up this afternoon and then there's a Facel logjam at the Retromobile auctions in February, with an ex-US/UK LHD Facel 11 and an ex-Ava Gardner Excellence coming up with Bonhams again.
And then Artcurial have the barn-find ex-Baillon collection Excellence plus a top restoration Excellence and an FV3B, so a total of five at Retromobile - plus some amazing other cars.
Estimates are as follows: $170-200k for today's Facel 11; £210-290k for the Facel 11 at Bonhams, and £160-230k for the ex-Ava Gardner Excellence. €60-80,000k for the Baillon Excellence; €125-185k for the FV3B and €170-210k for the ex-Monaco Excellence at Artcurial. All are left hand drive cars.
The competition is steep, however. There are a lot of other cars which look superb and good value. Once again there would seem to be too many cars that are too good. Will there be enough money around?
Final comment: extraordinary to see three Excellences for sale at once. OK, there was an ex-South Africa machine up recently on e-bay but they are pretty rare. I await to see the prices paid with interest.
Bonhams in Scottsdale have a Facel 11 coming up this afternoon and then there's a Facel logjam at the Retromobile auctions in February, with an ex-US/UK LHD Facel 11 and an ex-Ava Gardner Excellence coming up with Bonhams again.
And then Artcurial have the barn-find ex-Baillon collection Excellence plus a top restoration Excellence and an FV3B, so a total of five at Retromobile - plus some amazing other cars.
Estimates are as follows: $170-200k for today's Facel 11; £210-290k for the Facel 11 at Bonhams, and £160-230k for the ex-Ava Gardner Excellence. €60-80,000k for the Baillon Excellence; €125-185k for the FV3B and €170-210k for the ex-Monaco Excellence at Artcurial. All are left hand drive cars.
The competition is steep, however. There are a lot of other cars which look superb and good value. Once again there would seem to be too many cars that are too good. Will there be enough money around?
Final comment: extraordinary to see three Excellences for sale at once. OK, there was an ex-South Africa machine up recently on e-bay but they are pretty rare. I await to see the prices paid with interest.
I am also waiting to see what the market makes of all these LHD cars for sale at the same time. I am about to sell my collection of RHD cars, Facel II, Excellence, Facellia Coupe and Convertible, but don't want to flood the market, its tricky so lets hope all these cars find new homes! I agree with Bob, the Excellence market is the least defined at the moment so it will be interesting to see what they fetch.
Justin
Justin
Back in the day a pal of mine's dad bought a Facel 2, it seemed to be always mated to a Don Parker two axle
trailer.
I was informed this was the "high speed hauler" and as such was used to take and bring cars from the many auctions his dad used to frequent as part of his business activities (car dealer)...some tow car!
The best sighting was on the A4 heading east early one morning with the 250lm on the back Egham bound for service....as with so many things when you're young, taken for granted never occurred to me to take a snap!!
trailer.
I was informed this was the "high speed hauler" and as such was used to take and bring cars from the many auctions his dad used to frequent as part of his business activities (car dealer)...some tow car!
The best sighting was on the A4 heading east early one morning with the 250lm on the back Egham bound for service....as with so many things when you're young, taken for granted never occurred to me to take a snap!!
I may not be allowed to do this, but if you're interested in Facel Vegas, log into my new Facel Vega site at https://facelvegacc.wordpress.com/ where you will find details of Facels coming up for auction at Retromobile in Paris this week, and the results post-auction. The first result from Wednesday night is already there. And hopefully, there will be more Facel stories and features on a regular basis in the future.
Hi Bob. The web site is looking great, finally somewhere to talk Facel Vega, although this forum has gone quite well. Please keep up the great work. It would seem that the crazyness of Facel prices has slowed down. With cars not selling in Paris and the lovely HK that did sell making low but sensible money. There were/are some special cars coming over the block this week that cast a long shadow. I must admit I was nearly there but I'm trying to shake the car habit. Still another auction to go and its the best of the three. Anyway love the new site and thanks for all the effort.
Hi, I'm enquiring about a Facel Facil PYT 6, it was owned by our father in the early sixtys, it seems To had a hard life, anybody with further information and its where about would be appreciative as he is now a young 85 and still talks about it although he now drives a more reliable car XKR.
L Purrier
L Purrier
I think it does still exist but only just. It was one of five 4-seater fixed head Facellias originally imported into Britain, of which only three are traceable. It was originally owned by a Mr Marks of Robertson and Woodcock, the makers of Trebor.
It was later owned by no less than three major personalities of the Facel Vega Owners (now Car) Club: historian Richard Stevens, the man who bought all the spares John Barton and then club chairman Eric Phillpott. Barton fitted a V8 engine out of an MGB V8 as he did to my Facellia and frankly, it works very well.
However, Phillpott had it - and another Facellia - for a long time and it didn't improve with age. The V8 disappeared - maybe it's in my car - and now PYT6 doesn't have an engine or gearbox. Phillpott died about five years ago and it was said that his family were going to restore the car, but it might have gone to Justin Banks who you will find on this topic earlier on. Indeed he recently declared on here that he was going to sell his Facel collection, so PYT6 may come on the market.
It was later owned by no less than three major personalities of the Facel Vega Owners (now Car) Club: historian Richard Stevens, the man who bought all the spares John Barton and then club chairman Eric Phillpott. Barton fitted a V8 engine out of an MGB V8 as he did to my Facellia and frankly, it works very well.
However, Phillpott had it - and another Facellia - for a long time and it didn't improve with age. The V8 disappeared - maybe it's in my car - and now PYT6 doesn't have an engine or gearbox. Phillpott died about five years ago and it was said that his family were going to restore the car, but it might have gone to Justin Banks who you will find on this topic earlier on. Indeed he recently declared on here that he was going to sell his Facel collection, so PYT6 may come on the market.
Hi All,
I bought the Ringo Facel II from Freda Philpott, Erics widow, and I remember PYT6 being in the garden of their house in Surrey, it was derelict and I tried to buy it, but they wanted to keep it in the family to perhaps restore one day.
I now only have a few Facel Vega left, one RHD Excellence and two Facellias, the white RHD Convertible shown in Martin Buckleys book, and a very rare car indeed, a RHD 2 seater Coupe, they only made 3, as it was more expensive than the convertible with hardtop, and two are know to have been scrapped, according the Richard Stevens, so that just leaves mine. I am not sure rarity equals value but its a nice thing nonetheless!
Justin.
I bought the Ringo Facel II from Freda Philpott, Erics widow, and I remember PYT6 being in the garden of their house in Surrey, it was derelict and I tried to buy it, but they wanted to keep it in the family to perhaps restore one day.
I now only have a few Facel Vega left, one RHD Excellence and two Facellias, the white RHD Convertible shown in Martin Buckleys book, and a very rare car indeed, a RHD 2 seater Coupe, they only made 3, as it was more expensive than the convertible with hardtop, and two are know to have been scrapped, according the Richard Stevens, so that just leaves mine. I am not sure rarity equals value but its a nice thing nonetheless!
Justin.
Bob CD said:
I think it does still exist but only just. It was one of five 4-seater fixed head Facellias originally imported into Britain, of which only three are traceable. It was originally owned by a Mr Marks of Robertson and Woodcock, the makers of Trebor.
It was later owned by no less than three major personalities of the Facel Vega Owners (now Car) Club: historian Richard Stevens, the man who bought all the spares John Barton and then club chairman Eric Phillpott. Barton fitted a V8 engine out of an MGB V8 as he did to my Facellia and frankly, it works very well.
However, Phillpott had it - and another Facellia - for a long time and it didn't improve with age. The V8 disappeared - maybe it's in my car - and now PYT6 doesn't have an engine or gearbox. Phillpott died about five years ago and it was said that his family were going to restore the car, but it might have gone to Justin Banks who you will find on this topic earlier on. Indeed he recently declared on here that he was going to sell his Facel collection, so PYT6 may come on the market.
The V8 engine that I fitted to PYT 6 is certainly not in your car Bob.I sold it on at RS request to an MGB owner.The engine in your facellia came from elsewhere.Sadly Eric Philpott left PYT 6 out in the rain for donkeys years and now it is probably not restorable.PYT 6 was engineless when I got her.It was not too bad in terms of bodywork.I "Tcutted "the paint and even that was quite good. I fitted the MG V8 engine,and used her for a couple of years.I even toured europe down to ST Tropez with her.I took the last boss of Facel,Paul Badre for a spin around his home at Boulevard de la Reine Versailles.Great car,sad end.I have photos of the car as found,as used,and as left by eric.It was later owned by no less than three major personalities of the Facel Vega Owners (now Car) Club: historian Richard Stevens, the man who bought all the spares John Barton and then club chairman Eric Phillpott. Barton fitted a V8 engine out of an MGB V8 as he did to my Facellia and frankly, it works very well.
However, Phillpott had it - and another Facellia - for a long time and it didn't improve with age. The V8 disappeared - maybe it's in my car - and now PYT6 doesn't have an engine or gearbox. Phillpott died about five years ago and it was said that his family were going to restore the car, but it might have gone to Justin Banks who you will find on this topic earlier on. Indeed he recently declared on here that he was going to sell his Facel collection, so PYT6 may come on the market.
facelman said:
The V8 engine that I fitted to PYT 6 is certainly not in your car Bob.I sold it on at RS request to an MGB owner.The engine in your facellia came from elsewhere.Sadly Eric Philpott left PYT 6 out in the rain for donkeys years and now it is probably not restorable.PYT 6 was engineless when I got her.It was not too bad in terms of bodywork.I "Tcutted "the paint and even that was quite good. I fitted the MG V8 engine,and used her for a couple of years.I even toured europe down to ST Tropez with her.I took the last boss of Facel,Paul Badre for a spin around his home at Boulevard de la Reine Versailles.Great car,sad end.I have photos of the car as found,as used,and as left by eric.
I have just picked up what you said Bob about the first owner of PYT6.I knew John Marks very well of course as he had several Bugattis.His father started TREBOR which was his name spelt backward ROBERT.I wish I had known that he owned my car when he was alive !Edited by facelman on Saturday 2nd May 13:02
I have added to my fleet with not one but two Facel III convertibles.Both came from Sweden.One FBA 153,belonged to an old customer of mine in the 1980s.He bought it new in 1964.It was BRG with beige trim.He had a good taste transplant later in life and the car is now yellow with fake leopardskin seats....I have replaced the stub axles and wishbones and fitted new rear brakes and copper pipes.This car runs well and even the overdrive is fine.It will need new paint hopefully back to BRG,and a retrim.I would like to sell this car for offers around 30.000 euros.I can supply a RHD steering box if anyone is interested.The second car is not for sale.It is FBA 179 again from 1964 which was laid up after a mishap in 1968.It is so beautifully untouched [ apart from said mishap ] and has never been rusty,welded or restored.I intend to straighten out the damaged wing and sill and reuse them.I do however need a nearside door to make life easier.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff